Would the US government allow anyone to interpret the US constitution?

[Bobby Jo]

...
If Jesus came to me in-person and said the Catholic Church is not the Church, just follow your interpretations with the Holy Bible, I would 100% say hell yes! ...

Already proposed AT LEAST ONCE, to which I replied: I would instruct that "spirit" to depart from me IN JESUS NAME, -- because Jesus is PERFECT, and it's HERESY to liken our PERFECT GOD to your IMPERFECT organization. -- ONLY satan would do this, and thus I would respond.


Proposed, -- and countered.
Bobby Jo

 

[Truthcampaign.org]

What cross are you talking about, TC? Sounds like you’re struggling. I’m praying for you.

Please pray for me and I will pray for you. This is what I was referring to:

Luke 14:27
Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.

Mark 8:34
And calling the crowd to him with his disciples, he said to them, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

Matthew 16:24
Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

Matthew 10:38
And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.

If your saved already, it's pointless to carry a cross. Many outside the Church believe the race is already won, don't need to suffer, etc. But that's not what Jesus said. Everybody has a cross to carry. Some big, some small. This virus is a cross for example. God Bless!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Please pray for me and I will pray for you. This is what I was referring to:

Luke 14:27
Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple.

Mark 8:34
And calling the crowd to him with his disciples, he said to them, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

Matthew 16:24
Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.

Matthew 10:38
And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.

If your saved already, it's pointless to carry a cross. Many outside the Church believe the race is already won, don't need to suffer, etc. But that's not what Jesus said. Everybody has a cross to carry. Some big, some small. This virus is a cross for example. God Bless!

I’m quite in agreement with you that in this life we will have troubles, just as Jesus said (John 16:33). I believe that taking up our own cross ties in with what Paul said about putting to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit. (AMP says "the deeds prompted by the body." Of course, this is referring to sinful deeds.)

Romans 8:12-14--So then, brothers, we are not obligated to the flesh to live according to the flesh, for if you live according to the flesh, you are going to die. But if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. All those led by God’s Spirit are God’s sons.

This is also a good passage:

1 Peter 2:21-25--For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH; and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously; and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.

 

[Truthcampaign.org]

I’m quite in agreement with you that in this life we will have troubles, just as Jesus said (John 16:33). I believe that taking up our own cross ties in with what Paul said about putting to death the deeds of the body by the Spirit. (AMP says "the deeds prompted by the body." Of course, this is referring to sinful deeds.)

Romans 8:12-14--So then, brothers, we are not obligated to the flesh to live according to the flesh, for if you live according to the flesh, you are going to die. But if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. All those led by God’s Spirit are God’s sons.

This is also a good passage:

1 Peter 2:21-25--For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH; and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously; and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.

I had a big cross last year w my 11 year daughter going through open heart surgery. Worked out perfect but very painful to go through. We had wait 4 months for the right physician. Our crosses make us stronger but not fun at times. See we agree on things! God bless!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I had a big cross last year w my 11 year daughter going through open heart surgery. Worked out perfect but very painful to go through. We had wait 4 months for the right physician. Our crosses make us stronger but not fun at times. See we agree on things! God bless!

Yes, we do, my friend! God bless you too!

 

[justbyfaith]

We do not suffer in order to be saved; but we suffer because we are saved.

What I mean by this, is that, as believers, we have a different paradigm than does the world; and it is not unheard of that men of the world will attempt to squeeze us into the mold and paradigm of this world through persecution.

We suffer because we have been made into new creatures in Christ and therefore have a different paradigm than the world.

We do not suffer in order to somehow achieve merit so that we will be acceptable to God in our day of judgment.

Hope this helps!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Thanks Ronald.

In your testimony earlier you suggested we should not accept a churches teachings without looking at the word for ourselves! People hold bad doctrine because they are new believers, lazy and taught bad doctrine from a Church.

Sooooo how about if we find a person who has been a Christian for....ummmm....80 years, who every one they know can attest is not lazy in his/her studies of Scripture and never attended a denominational Church to have learned bad doctrine from? How do we find that person?

Have you ever left a church because they started teaching a "false doctrine"?

Mary

Well your example is an irrelevancy because a person can learn bad doctrine through their own mind!

I left 2 churches because of bad doctrine.

Let me be clear here.

do I think I am 100% right in all things I believe? Yes I do! does that make me 100% right? No it doe not necessarily mean that.

But if I believe i n things I know not to be true- that is insanity!

I have changed my beliefs many times over 46 years of walking with god! As I learned more and understood the Scriptures more and th ehistory and meaning of the words as used by the authors, yes I changed my mind.

But I do not believe in Scripture and reason, Scripture and logic, I believe all doctrine needs to be established by applying Scripture alone whether it is culturally acceptable, reasonable, logical or not!

As Paul said- it is Scriptures that are given by inspiration and they are for establishing Doctrine. Which my definition of doctrine is simply what God has to say on a matter!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Show me the evidence of this history. Like I've said before, if the Catholic Church is not the Church based on historical evidence, then I'm done with it! It would be sad because of the true presence of the Lord that I feel in the Holy Eucharist. But I'm here to follow the Lord and what he taught. If I'm wrong, show me! Prove to me with historical evidence.

Well prove to me the mass and transubstantiation, and purgatory and perpetual virginity of Mary and confessionals and indulgences were taught by the Apostles! It is the Apostles doctrine we must adhere to not some 2nd, 3rd, 4th or later religious people who promote something and then re-interpret Scripture to defend their false teaching!

Google is your friend. You can look up the fact Paul died c. 54 A.D. at teh Marmatine Prison either by beheading or bein g shot with arrows! YOu can also see John exiled by Domitian.

Jesus is present within the heart of believers, not in a gold box on a side altar oif a church Jesus would build whips to tear at like He did when He was here!

I was Catholic, and I can understand why one would think that celebrating the Lords Supper one would think it is th ebody and blood of Jesus. He said those things! But all us gentiles forget teh context of where and why He said those so we came up with all sorts of crazy doctrines.

But to say the Lord Himself is present in the Eucharist? No where in Scripture do you see that or even hinted at!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I consider that it may be that the Lord wants us to spread the gospel throughout the Universe.

Just as Jesus did not go personally to the American Indians but set the church to be the bearer of the good news to them once we discovered the New World, so, I believe, the Lord wants us to be the bearer of the good news to aliens if they do in fact exist.

The revelation of Jesus dying on the Cross for sin may not yet be given to them; just as this revelation was not given to the American Indians before it was brought to them through missionaries in the United States.

Might? May? If?

YOur writing on a thread making assertions on things you do not even know if they exist!

If they do God said 0 about it!

 

[justbyfaith]

But I do not believe in Scripture and reason, Scripture and logic, I believe all doctrine needs to be established by applying Scripture alone whether it is culturally acceptable, reasonable, logical or not!

See Isaiah 1:18.

Might? May? If?

YOur writing on a thread making assertions on things you do not even know if they exist!

If they do God said 0 about it!

He said that He made the worlds in Hebrews 1:1-3.

So He did not discount the possibility.

But having the doctrine of it in only one passage indicates to me that the teaching about it is not central to the salvation message.

We should only consider the possibility now and respond accordingly if they do show up on the scene.

I do believe that if they show up, they will either be without sin or else they will be perfect candidates to have the gospel preached to them.

There is the other possibility also; that if or when aliens show up they are in all reality demons and will attempt to deceive the whole world.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

See Isaiah 1:18.



He said that He made the worlds in Hebrews 1:1-3.

So He did not discount the possibility.

But having the doctrine of it in only one passage indicates to me that the teaching about it is not central to the salvation message.

We should only consider the possibility now and respond accordingly if they do show up on the scene.

I do believe that if they show up, they will either be without sin or else they will be perfect candidates to have the gospel preached to them.

There is the other possibility also; that if or when aliens show up they are in all reality demons and will attempt to deceive the whole world.

Nor did He say He did make "aliens". It is fruitless. If they do exist, then they would know about their creator! John 3: 16 says god loved te Word, no tthe universe!

But as for Isaiah 1? You really are reaching! That is not saying that we should use reason to form doctrine. To put that in modern colloquial english? It would be "Hey, can we talk?"

But as for trusting in logic, reason, philosophy or our thoughts?

Proverbs 3:4-6
King James Version

4 So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.

5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.


We should never ask if something is logical, reasonable, cultural, or acceptable. The only question we need to ask is: Is it biblical?

All we as followerrs of Jesus need do is to look around and see the mess the church is in because too many people listened to "reasonable and logical" arguments and elevated them to the level of Scripture!

 

[justbyfaith]

John 3: 16 says god loved te Word, no tthe universe!

First of all, you need to capitalize the word God out of respect for Him.

Secondly, the Greek word for "world" in John 3:16 is kosmos; which may indeed mean Universe.

But as for Isaiah 1? You really are reaching! That is not saying that we should use reason to form doctrine. To put that in modern colloquial english? It would be "Hey, can we talk?"

I am not reaching in the slightest.

God does not ask us to check our brains in at the door when we come to Christ.

He wants us to reason everything out, including doctrine (especially doctrine).

So, what does it mean that we are to trust in the LORD with all of our hearts and lean not unto our own understanding?

It means that we have faith in Christ that, if there were a reasoning against it, would not be shaken. We would believe in Him in the face of that reasoning, understanding that we very likely do not have all of the facts. We would consider that our own understanding is insufficient to make a conclusion against faith in Christ if our understanding led us towards believing such a proposition.

However, I will say again, that we do not check in our brains at the door when we become born again.

I suppose that I will get another "bad grade" for saying such things to you. Oh well, it is par for the course...

 

[Davy]

• Only the Catholic Church can claim that it was established by Jesus

This cannot be proven in scripture (i.e. the Bible).

• The early Church Fathers are Catholic

Hopefully, the "early church fathers" are in heaven, where there are no denominational divisions!
....

Augustine by his visits to the Isles had to admit the pre-existence of the Christian Church in Britain. See history of the Culdee Church in ancient Britain.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Augustine by his visits to the Isles had to admit the pre-existence of the Christian Church in Britain. See history of the Culdee Church in ancient Britain.

I, Davy, I will look this up. But I’m not sure what your point is.

 

[Davy]

I, Davy, I will look this up. But I’m not sure what your point is.

The Culdee history goes back to the 1st century A.D. in Britain. That's the point. The Catholic Church has tried to suppress that history. St. Columba in his writings refused to recognize a Roman Pope being over the Culdee Church, which was also the stance by the KJV translators per their Letter To The Reader in the 1st edition 1611 KJV Bible. Culdee history also reveals a hand in the Protestant movement. This contention between Protestants in Britain and the Catholic Church continues to this day. The Culdee (and thus Celtic Church) history shows it didn't just begin with Luther.

As a side note, I recall in the movie A Knight's Tale, the main characters were at an Inn at a table drinking, and at another table some French were bragging how the Pope was French. One of the Brits said the Pope may be French, but Jesus is English! If one didn't know about this historic battle between the Culdee Church and the Roman Church, they likely would not have understood that declaration of Jesus being English. Also note, the Grail legend, the supposed cup of Christ, originated in Britain. They have a legend about Joseph of Arimathaea having been a tin trader and that he traded by ship in ancient Britain.

 

[Brakelite]

The Culdee history goes back to the 1st century A.D. in Britain. That's the point. The Catholic Church has tried to suppress that history. St. Columba in his writings refused to recognize a Roman Pope being over the Culdee Church, which was also the stance by the KJV translators per their Letter To The Reader in the 1st edition 1611 KJV Bible. Culdee history also reveals a hand in the Protestant movement. This contention between Protestants in Britain and the Catholic Church continues to this day. The Culdee (and thus Celtic Church) history shows it didn't just begin with Luther.

As a side note, I recall in the movie A Knight's Tale, the main characters were at an Inn at a table drinking, and at another table some French were bragging how the Pope was French. One of the Brits said the Pope may be French, but Jesus is English! If one didn't know about this historic battle between the Culdee Church and the Roman Church, they likely would not have understood that declaration of Jesus being English. Also note, the Grail legend, the supposed cup of Christ, originated in Britain. They have a legend about Joseph of Arimathaea having been a tin trader and that he traded by ship in ancient Britain.

The history of the Celtic church throughout Britain is a fascinating one that Rome hates. The church in Galatia was Celtic. They had similar roots to the Christian churches in southern Italy and southern France. They traded between one another centuries before Christ, and when the gospel came on the scene it traveled with those traders. Long before the check in Rome was organised enough to send missionaries anywhere. In fact, the first missionary to Britain that did officially represent the papacy was sent packing by the Celts. The refused to accept a demand of submission to papal authority.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

The Culdee history goes back to the 1st century A.D. in Britain. That's the point. The Catholic Church has tried to suppress that history. St. Columba in his writings refused to recognize a Roman Pope being over the Culdee Church, which was also the stance by the KJV translators per their Letter To The Reader in the 1st edition 1611 KJV Bible. Culdee history also reveals a hand in the Protestant movement. This contention between Protestants in Britain and the Catholic Church continues to this day. The Culdee (and thus Celtic Church) history shows it didn't just begin with Luther.

As a side note, I recall in the movie A Knight's Tale, the main characters were at an Inn at a table drinking, and at another table some French were bragging how the Pope was French. One of the Brits said the Pope may be French, but Jesus is English! If one didn't know about this historic battle between the Culdee Church and the Roman Church, they likely would not have understood that declaration of Jesus being English. Also note, the Grail legend, the supposed cup of Christ, originated in Britain. They have a legend about Joseph of Arimathaea having been a tin trader and that he traded by ship in ancient Britain.

Thanks for this info! Very interesting.

 

[Truthcampaign.org]

Well prove to me the mass and transubstantiation, and purgatory and perpetual virginity of Mary and confessionals and indulgences were taught by the Apostles! It is the Apostles doctrine we must adhere to not some 2nd, 3rd, 4th or later religious people who promote something and then re-interpret Scripture to defend their false teaching!

Google is your friend. You can look up the fact Paul died c. 54 A.D. at teh Marmatine Prison either by beheading or bein g shot with arrows! YOu can also see John exiled by Domitian.

Jesus is present within the heart of believers, not in a gold box on a side altar oif a church Jesus would build whips to tear at like He did when He was here!

I was Catholic, and I can understand why one would think that celebrating the Lords Supper one would think it is th ebody and blood of Jesus. He said those things! But all us gentiles forget teh context of where and why He said those so we came up with all sorts of crazy doctrines.

But to say the Lord Himself is present in the Eucharist? No where in Scripture do you see that or even hinted at!

Like usually, you people keep changing the subject when you have no facts. You believe in theories rather than what Jesus taught.

Show me a verse where the apostles pulled out the NT bibles and starting reading NT scripture. They didn't because the was no NT then. Scripture mentioned then was the OT. So, over time the NT formed as did many other things like confession, etc.

Purgatory:

1 Peter 3:18-19 Christ himself died once and for all for sins, the upright for the sake of the guilty, to lead us to God. In the body he was put to death, in the spirit he was raised to life,

19 and, in the spirit, he went to preach to the spirits in prison.

Tell me where these people are, these spirits in prison? They certainly are NOT in hell because there is no preaching in hell and these spirits are NOT in heaven because there is no prison in heaven.

1 Peter 4:6 And this was why the gospel was brought to the dead as well, so that, though in their bodies they had undergone the judgement that faces all humanity, in their spirit they might enjoy the life of God.

Why is the gospel brought to the dead? No need in hell, right? In heaven, you won the race.

You might enjoy the life of God? Where are these spirits?

If you give me logical answers and not change the subject, I'll answer the other questions via scripture about confession, Mary etc...

 

[Brakelite]

Show me a verse where the apostles pulled out the NT bibles and starting reading NT scripture. They didn't because the was no NT then. Scripture mentioned then was the OT. So, over time the NT formed as did many other things like confession, etc.

Ephesians 3:4
Col.4:16
1 Thess.5:27

"Purgatory"
Please read that portion of scripture again, carefully, and find the answers to the following questions.

1 Peter 3:18 ¶ For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1.By what did Christ preach?
2.Through whom was this preaching done?
3. When was that preaching done?
4. To whom was this preaching done?

If the above passage is too little for you to formulate 3 succinct answers, I would offer the following verses to assist you to find the truth.
1. Luke 2:27; Acts 6:10; Zechariah 4:6
2. 2Peter 2:5,
3. Hebrews 11:7,
4. Psalm 142:7; Romans 7:23; Luke 4:18

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Show me a verse where the apostles pulled out the NT bibles and starting reading NT scripture. They didn't because the was no NT then. Scripture mentioned then was the OT. So, over time the NT formed as did many other things like confession, etc.

Well no they didn't pull out Bibles. Because they were too busy preaching it, and writing the letters and accounts that are the NT.

Purgatory:

1 Peter 3:18-19 Christ himself died once and for all for sins, the upright for the sake of the guilty, to lead us to God. In the body he was put to death, in the spirit he was raised to life,

19 and, in the spirit, he went to preach to the spirits in prison.

Tell me where these people are, these spirits in prison? They certainly are NOT in hell because there is no preaching in hell and these spirits are NOT in heaven because there is no prison in heaven.

Ther certainly were in hell/hades/sheol aka the place of teh dead!

The bible speaks of 3 compartments in hell (hell is simply the world f the dead).

1. The place of torments -the lost awaiting the lake of fire.
2. Tartarus-the angels of Genesis 6 held till the lake of fire!
3. Paradise- the OT righteous dead here awaiting till Jesus actually shed HIs blood!

Paradise was not a place where people finished paying for their sins. They waited there until Jesus actually died and shed His blood to remove their sin. As it says in Ephesisans, when Jesus went back to heaven- He took these souls with HIm! Now when a believer dies, because Jesus' blood has been shed- to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Hope this helps you understand His Word better.