True View of God

[DNB]

"I've always cringed at the expression, 'they're a great person, but just don't get on their bad side'. No such thing, great people don't have such an apparent or threatening bad side - a little yeast, eventually works through the whole batch."

I too have always cringed at this expression! If they are such a "great person" (which none exist BUT Christ anyhow), how can they have a "bad side"! It's such pride, and I know of a few just like this and I try to not roll my eyes in my mind as..."we fight not against..."

"the constructs of this world that we are born into, truly desensitizes us to what is actually right or wrong. So many years of following and embracing misguided ideals and principles."

Yes, total desensitization! Even in the old tv shows and cartoons. Satan has creeped into every area of our lives, one way or another. Discernment is big for me and, He has grown me in that area for the last decade, Praise God!

"So many years of following and embracing misguided ideals and principles. We just don't realize the insidious and subversive nature of so many egregious acts. "

For sure! It is very subtle, very sneaky...Satan has been trying to subvert God's message from day one. And, when one comes to belief in Christ later in life, there is much shedding to be done, much un-learning the lies and learning the TRUTH. But, late or early, He is faithful :)

"...What people don't see is the character that gets destroyed."

Yes! We can see it in our old selves, at least I see how it affected me. I did not realize all the bad characteristics in myself until HE showed me!
God bless and keep you!

Yes, so much unlearning to do. It is truly Satan's world, especially when prime-time tv has such decadent, egotistic, and superficial material. Let alone advertisements, beauty pageants, American Idol or 'reality' shows, or the American 'dream', embracing lgbtq, ....
And yet, one has to be cautious and reserved just to speak about God in public.

 

[quietthinker]

"I've always cringed at the expression, 'they're a great person, but just don't get on their bad side'. No such thing, great people don't have such an apparent or threatening bad side - a little yeast, eventually works through the whole batch."

I too have always cringed at this expression! If they are such a "great person" (which none exist BUT Christ anyhow), how can they have a "bad side"! It's such pride, and I know of a few just like this and I try to not roll my eyes in my mind as..."we fight not against..."

"the constructs of this world that we are born into, truly desensitizes us to what is actually right or wrong. So many years of following and embracing misguided ideals and principles."

Yes, total desensitization! Even in the old tv shows and cartoons. Satan has creeped into every area of our lives, one way or another. Discernment is big for me and, He has grown me in that area for the last decade, Praise God!

"So many years of following and embracing misguided ideals and principles. We just don't realize the insidious and subversive nature of so many egregious acts. "

For sure! It is very subtle, very sneaky...Satan has been trying to subvert God's message from day one. And, when one comes to belief in Christ later in life, there is much shedding to be done, much un-learning the lies and learning the TRUTH. But, late or early, He is faithful :)

"...What people don't see is the character that gets destroyed."

Yes! We can see it in our old selves, at least I see how it affected me. I did not realize all the bad characteristics in myself until HE showed me!
God bless and keep you!

Do you like this one... "I'll be honest with you"

 

[Episkopos]

Epi: I have a couple of questions related to your comments of @marks post #2. Just for clarification purposes...I can make a good guess as to what you meant. So let me do that....I think your comment to marks is all about what you wanted to 'see' in his writing that he apparently did not write out and thus lacked..

What has a principle tenet of Judaism. ...thinking of God always in all thoughts...,and I question if it is one at all, has to do with marks post of #2?

Unless it meant the basis for your entire comment. marks failed to provide you confidence that he used this same tenet you mentioned per Judaism. Did his post lack reinforcing statements of person application (physical, mental and spiritual) for his words regarding the sublimity of God, and what you also considered 'good?'

And because he lacked this crucial 'ingredient' in his words, you apparently wanted to see, you then thought he might be justified in merely just stating the greatest or wonder of God without any words of action and application? Yes, the Pharisees did preach many words without too much practice of them to show they were genuine and sincere before God; then there are many religious Pharisees today unable to tread the spiritual life as God intended.

Thanks

APAK

Not sure what you are getting at here. But I find that the modern generation of believers have been indoctrinated into claiming all the high sounding verses for themselves as if presumption was a virtue.

As in...turn the to person next to you and say..."I AM seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus." Meanwhile the preacher has no idea either what Paul is speaking of. And the end result sounds more like the quote of Lucifer with all his lofty claims of...I will ascend...I will be like the Most High... Instead people should be warned to NOT be like the presumptuous claims made by the devil in Is. 14 and Ez. 28 Where is the fear of the Lord these days? Gone through indoctrination.

People today read the bible in a very selfish and superficial way. The Jews are far more accurate in their rendering...but that's because they take the scriptures seriously....albeit in an outward way. They miss the deeper spiritual meaning in their quest for a practical biblical application. But at least they take the words seriously. Unlike the "grace" people who think they will be judged lightly for their presumptions.

The way people read the bible would go like this ..and "Abraham believed God so then he was able to claim that he was just as righteous as God...and God said nothing about it but just smiled...." So if you look at the result in people today...that's about how they twist the bible in their reading of it.

Peter warned of people who twist the meaning of the bible...and especially Paul (remember that dogmatic preacher who gets you to assume the best verses for yourself?)

But exhortation and rebuke are seen as too negative now. Let's just stay positive and cater to the lowest common denominator...because we're all already saved and won the race....even if we don't run.

Oh, and obedience is optional because of grace. :)

 

[APAK]

Not sure what you are getting at here. But I find that the modern generation of believers have been indoctrinated into claiming all the high sounding verses for themselves as if presumption was a virtue.

As in...turn the to person next to you and say..."I AM seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus." Meanwhile the preacher has no idea either what Paul is speaking of. And the end result sounds more like the quote of Lucifer with all his lofty claims of...I will ascend...I will be like the Most High... Instead people should be warned to NOT be like the presumptuous claims made by the devil in Is. 14 and Ez. 28 Where is the fear of the Lord these days? Gone through indoctrination.

People today read the bible in a very selfish and superficial way. The Jews are far more accurate in their rendering...but that's because they take the scriptures seriously....albeit in an outward way. They miss the deeper spiritual meaning in their quest for a practical biblical application. But at least they take the words seriously. Unlike the "grace" people who think they will be judged lightly for their presumptions.

The way people read the bible would go like this ..and "Abraham believed God so then he was able to claim that he was just as righteous as God...and God said nothing about it but just smiled...." So if you look at the result in people today...that's about how they twist the bible in their reading of it.

Peter warned of people who twist the meaning of the bible...and especially Paul (remember that dogmatic preacher who gets you to assume the best verses for yourself?)

But exhortation and rebuke are seen as too negative now. Let's just stay positive and cater to the lowest common denominator...because we're all already saved and won the race....even if we don't run.

Oh, and obedience is optional because of grace. :)

Right, taking convenient or appealing fragments of scripture and blindly, or even purposely applying it to themselves without any thought to its true intended meaning. That I do relate to a lot these days, with especially younger folks. We are missing serious and genuine shepherds of the flock...it is a sign of self serving feel good 'Christians.'

The humanist philosophies taught in schools and on TV over the last several decades have had their part to play in all this skewing of scripture. Of telling children over and over again they are all special and all are exceptional and equal with their parents. It has truly bled into their homes, their personal lives and into their minds; affecting their spiritual beliefs and walk, of their relationship with the Creator and his messages and works for each of them.

 

[Nancy]

Do you like this one... "I'll be honest with you"

Oh yeah, get that allot too, lol. Like, okay, thanks for being honest!

 

[farouk]

Oh yeah, get that allot too, lol. Like, okay, thanks for being honest!

@Nancy All sorts of discussions and angles on this site, right? :)

 

[Nancy]

Yes, so much unlearning to do. It is truly Satan's world, especially when prime-time tv has such decadent, egotistic, and superficial material. Let alone advertisements, beauty pageants, American Idol or 'reality' shows, or the American 'dream', embracing lgbtq, ....
And yet, one has to be cautious and reserved just to speak about God in public.

Yes, 'anything goes' in this lost and sick world, except for God! Lot's of kicking the dust off our feet...

 

[bbyrd009]

A.W. Tozer's "Knowledge of the Holy" discusses our idolatry, perverted thoughts of God, referring to believers. He says, people have false beliefs about God, but act as if they are true, going on to say this is accomplished by deceiving the masses and spoon feeding them ideas about "what is God like?" Instead of seeking God with all of our heart, mind and soul and firstly, seeking the Kingdom of God and God Himself, we listen to what others think about God - the herd mentality, and it's NOT TRUE.

"It's LIKE THIS"

It was an epiphany, this is what "believers" have done, we are at the point where those who claim Christ really don't believe we have a cross to bear, really don't believe that God not only loves but is just, too. They believe God is ok with sin (transvestites, homosexuality, gay marriages, abortion, lying, deceptions) - that these sins don't really matter, because God is love. These are wrong thoughts about God, the most heinous sin!

"It's LIKE THAT"

Is it possible to come back from this?

strong deceptions, sent by Yah? good q
maybe if you change your mind?

How does a believer stay on the narrow path? Many are chosen but few are called? Found worthy? It's been a wake up call for me.

Anyone else see this, too?

ppl standing in the holy place, declaring themselves to be Yah?
all the time, ya
best of luck to you sir

It is not my responsibility to persuade anyone, that's what God does. He is protecting me by leading me far away from here (as in where I live). Holiness, discipleship - none of that is taught where I live.

Sad as it is, I wonder if there is a place where holiness is taught. I have my doubts.

understand why the publicans and prostitutes are beating you in imo, but i wish you the best in your search. Think i'll keep on walking through the valley myself though

 

[Nancy]

Yes, 'anything goes' in this lost and sick world, except for God! Lot's of kicking the dust off our feet...

Welcome back Mark! We wondered where you were off to. :)

 

[marks]

That's interesting, are you saying that it was during a time of desperation and helplessness that forced you to rely on Him? ...not the best testimony, if you know what I mean? Or the miraculous nature of your recovery?

Let's just say there is a lot more to it than that.

Much love!

 

[DNB]

Let's just say there is a lot more to it than that.

Much love!

Appreciated! Either way, glad that you chose the correct path!

 

[Philip James]

as if presumption was a virtue.

Pride and presumption go hand and hand...

Lord,
For the sake of your sorrowful passion,
have mercy on us and on the whole world!

 

[Raccoon1010]

A.W. Tozer's "Knowledge of the Holy" discusses our idolatry, perverted thoughts of God, referring to believers. He says, people have false beliefs about God, but act as if they are true, going on to say this is accomplished by deceiving the masses and spoon feeding them ideas about "what is God like?" Instead of seeking God with all of our heart, mind and soul and firstly, seeking the Kingdom of God and God Himself, we listen to what others think about God - the herd mentality, and it's NOT TRUE.

It was an epiphany, this is what "believers" have done, we are at the point where those who claim Christ really don't believe we have a cross to bear, really don't believe that God not only loves but is just, too. They believe God is ok with sin (transvestites, homosexuality, gay marriages, abortion, lying, deceptions) - that these sins don't really matter, because God is love. These are wrong thoughts about God, the most heinous sin!

Is it possible to come back from this? How does a believer stay on the narrow path? Many are chosen but few are called? Found worthy? It's been a wake up call for me.

Anyone else see this, too?

I see that too, but I think the origin is government and their laws. Christianity is adopting sinful practices as established by our governments. In order for churches to be inline with current laws, they've attempted to redefine Christianity. Not all do, but many have, and it's a shame that they re-define Christianity instead of bearing their cross with the rest of the faithful and righteous.

 

[APAK]

If I may speak my mind freely, being clear this is only my opinion . . .

It seems to me @Episkopos bristles at the idea that someone would say that they truly know God, and that they know that God has accepted them.

I ignored his 'pharisee' comment as empty and meaningless. But at the end of the day - again, this is just my perception - at the end of the day Episkopos compares me to a pharisee who talks a big talk, but is an hypocrit and a liar, and that I simply justify myself, for whatever good that would do, but that I don't know God.

I think this is because he continues to present that we cannot know whether we are accepted by God until we stand before Him after we are dead.

Personally, it saddens me to realize there are those who spend their entire lives never knowing if they are in a relationship with God or not.

To have all of His assurances of His love and mercy and kind intention in rescuing the people He made, and yet to feel that you could be lost in any moment, to die, and find yourself standing before God, to be cast out.

I simply don't believe this is what the Bible proclaims. And it certainly does not describe my Christianity, if you will. Or more to the point, my relationship with my loving Creator.

I believe the Bible is clear that God intends for us to know in truth that we do know Him. And I believe God has done this for me. He, you, whomever, you're not about to 'convince me' that God is not in me. He's done far too much for me to just ignore. Mock all who will, I don't really care. Because all the mocking and vain comments in the world don't change what is true. I've been born again, and am forever the child of my Loving Father. He's not going to let go of me! I'm not about to let go of Him, but that's meaningless. That's my opinion of myself, and means nothing. Just like Episkopos' opinion of me means nothing to me. Only that it is an obstacle to real discussion, and hopefully, real fruitfulness.

Maybe a simpler way to see his post is that he begins with a nicety, but finishes with ad hominem . . .


"Then you have fallen into the same trap as the Pharisees who also do as you do...."

Call it any way you see. That's how I see it.

Much love!

marks, I am not surprised by your response here. I actually responded to him in a certain style, in part to defend you and also to allow a reset, for him to return to the table and readdress or reword his response to you through his response to me. It did not happen.

Yes, I'm very surprised he responded to me at all. He typically ignores my posts. And then, when I do get a response I usually receive a deflection that can change the subject of conversion completely. This time, he said he did not understand my response at all, and of course never addressed my queries at all. By now I have gotten used to it.

If you did not know by now, Epi wants his readers to see he is somewhat superior concerning spiritual things and his walk with/in Christ. This is why YOU received a post from him in this obviously vague and clearly condescending style. He actually might believe that most Christians are just like the Pharisees, and he is one rare exception. You will be hard pressed to get a straight clear answer on this subject though if you asked him for one.

I still have not figured out what Epi believes on the subject of being in Christ. I think he believes you 'walk in' by human steam and must put forth this effort to be in Christ....and then must continue to stay in this state by continued human effort....It is still a mystery to me in what he believes on this subject.

What matters though is that you and I know where we stand and believe, as part of our lives everyday, on this subject concerning our Creator, and our walk with Christ, that is not based on carnal human works.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Raccoon1010]

Good posts and good thread. How often do we hear holiness being preached these days, i.e. as a continual lifestyle the Christian should be living out in their daily lives? Not much I don't think. Most preaching these days makes excuses for believers not living holy lives as a practical reality. I think it's because the church has allowed the sinfulness of the world to creep in, but you will never hear this compromise from what the Spirit says to the churches through visions and dreams. He demands holiness, and always has.

Yes that is the message of the gospels. And it's important for the churches to be a beacon of righteousness. And with that I'm reminded of the parable of the tax collector:

Luke 18:9-14

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

And it kind of blurs the lines somewhat. Although I don't like people saying God accepts sin, but rather may accept some sinners.

 

[marks]

I still have not figured out what Epi believes on the subject of being in Christ. I think he believes you 'walk in' by human steam and must put forth this effort to be in Christ....and then must continue to stay in this state by continued human effort....It is still a mystery to me in what he believes on this subject.

HI APAK,

To my understanding @Episkopos holds this view. When you are reborn, you become as an Israelite under the covenant of law, that is, you to complete your life with sufficient holiness about you that God recognizes this, and accepts you into His kingdom. If you are especially appealing to Him, He may choose you to be a saint/bride, and you will rule over the other faithful who do not receive this benefit. But better are those who are ruled over than those hypocrits who will be sent into outer darkness. You'd be better off not having been born again, and just thrown into the lake of fire to be destroyed.

Being in Christ is, again, if God finds you especially appealing, or if He has some purpose for you, He may choose you to be actually "in Christ", in which case your life will be indistinguishable from His as for the manner in which it is lived. Being in Christ is an entirely "elevated" walk of sinlessness, and experiencing the realities of heaven and earth in this life. He reports being in Christ a couple of times, once much longer than the other, though these periods ended for their own reasons.

But the more common Christian life is to take the tools provided by the Holy Spirit and use them to build our character. So you have a character you are building with the help of God IF you are, or God may bestow something much greater upon you.

So being reborn, you can end up in the Holy City, outside the Holy City, or in Outer Darkness. Being IN Christ is something only God chooses you for.

This is my re-statement of his views according to my understanding in my discussions with him, and reading a good many of his posts.

Hopefully if I've misunderstood something he will correct me. I have no wish to be inaccurate.

Much love!

 

[Nancy]

Folk have no idea how magnificently beautiful holiness is. I suspect they have some sort of 'religious' idea that has a do-gooder,
super pious, better than thou element. In this they have totally missed the mark. They have superimposed a heathen perception on the living God.

Holiness has a quality that takes your breath away....yes, angels veil their faces because of its breathtaking factor.

Jesus is the personification of holiness with divinity veiled. We need to take a closer look at the man who in all cultures is the Desire of Ages......for, by beholding we become changed.

Beautifully put @quietthinker

 

[APAK]

HI APAK,

To my understanding @Episkopos holds this view. When you are reborn, you become as an Israelite under the covenant of law, that is, you to complete your life with sufficient holiness about you that God recognizes this, and accepts you into His kingdom. If you are especially appealing to Him, He may choose you to be a saint/bride, and you will rule over the other faithful who do not receive this benefit. But better are those who are ruled over than those hypocrits who will be sent into outer darkness. You'd be better off not having been born again, and just thrown into the lake of fire to be destroyed.

Being in Christ is, again, if God finds you especially appealing, or if He has some purpose for you, He may choose you to be actually "in Christ", in which case your life will be indistinguishable from His as for the manner in which it is lived. Being in Christ is an entirely "elevated" walk of sinlessness, and experiencing the realities of heaven and earth in this life. He reports being in Christ a couple of times, once much longer than the other, though these periods ended for their own reasons.

But the more common Christian life is to take the tools provided by the Holy Spirit and use them to build our character. So you have a character you are building with the help of God IF you are, or God may bestow something much greater upon you.

So being reborn, you can end up in the Holy City, outside the Holy City, or in Outer Darkness. Being IN Christ is something only God chooses you for.

This is my re-statement of his views according to my understanding in my discussions with him, and reading a good many of his posts.

Hopefully if I've misunderstood something he will correct me. I have no wish to be inaccurate.

Much love!

Now I thank you for that,,it is a much more informative summary..thanks....makes a lot more sense to me although it is NOT for me and it is NOT scriptural...I must say it is a creative blend and view of scripture regarding salvation, being a true Christian and the future life.....in the Holy City or in Outer darkness..I take it where most shall dwell....

 

[Nancy]

More than you know!

I met her in high school, and, while we didn't get married for another 10 years, I knew she was the one. 32 years later, I know she was the only one for me, and I for her.

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Yes that is the message of the gospels. And it's important for the churches to be a beacon of righteousness. And with that I'm reminded of the parable of the tax collector:

Luke 18:9-14

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

And it kind of blurs the lines somewhat. Although I don't like people saying God accepts sin, but rather may accept some sinners.

I think the reason it's true is because without humility you will never ask for the grace from God to purify you, and without that grace - whether a Christian or not - there's no hope you will be purified. I always say, no one can be holy without the Holy Spirit, and His manifest Presence is not a given. It is granted by grace.