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But post-resurrection I think that there will be a division amongst the lost and saved, and the lost will abide eternally in hell, as we know it to be, a place of self-inflicted torment.The op is about Hell Fire. I was simply explaining that "Hell" as most understand it, isn't a Biblical concept.
That's silly reasoning.Allegory?
No way.
Jesus named names.
This is a factual event in history.
Just ask Abraham and Lazarus.
I believe in eternal salvation. However, the Bible is pretty clear that the dead are dead. I don't believe they will be tormented forever. The whole concept of Hades being the realm of the living dead is a Greek philosophical one, not a Biblical one. As more and more Gentiles, primarily with Greek influence, became Christians this concept came with them. When they saw Hades in the Bible what would come to mind? Their belief that Hades is the realm of the living dead. However, this is not how the Scripture use the word. In Scripture the word Hades is the grave.But post-resurrection I think that there will be a division amongst the lost and saved, and the lost will abide eternally in hell, as we know it to be, a place of self-inflicted torment.
Do you not believe in either eternal salvation, or eternal perdition? Eternal perdition is where I believe hell to be.
First off, it's not a parable. It uses real life people.No, it's not Biblical. The parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man is not about life after death. It's an illustration of something else. This is the last in a series of parables Jesus gave. I'll post later on the meaning of the parable, I don't have time at the moment. I would ask you though, why do you assume they are alive when the text states that they died?
Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell.Literal fire, with flames, smoke, carbon dioxide and heat, no, I do not.
Yes, it uses real life people because Jesus is addressing real people. Remember Jesus said that the Jews would see people coming from the east and west and sitting with Abraham. Jesus was addressing the Pharisees with this parable. The reason he mentions Abraham's bosom is because the Jews, as the people of God, expected that they, through birth, would be sitting with Abraham. However, in the parable, the Rich Man, the Jew, is not sitting with Abraham, he's tormented and someone else is in Abraham's embrace, Abraham's bosom. I don't have time at the moment to get into depth on this. I should later.First off, it's not a parable. It uses real life people.
Why do I assume they were alive? They were conversing. lol
You asked me: " I would ask you though, why do you assume they are alive when the text states that they died?". I answered: "Why do I assume they were alive? They were conversing."Yes, it uses real life people because Jesus is addressing real people. Remember Jesus said that the Jews would see people coming from the east and west and sitting with Abraham. Jesus was addressing the Pharisees with this parable. The reason he mentions Abraham's bosom is because the Jews, as the people of God, expected that they, through birth, would be sitting with Abraham. However, in the parable, the Rich Man, the Jew, is not sitting with Abraham, he's tormented and someone else is in Abraham's embrace, Abraham's bosom. I don't have time at the moment to get into depth on this. I should later.
They were conversing, yes. Have you ever witnessed a dead person conversing? If not then why would you think they did here?
I think that it is the Eternal Lake of Fire, and Jesus' continuous usage of the phrase 'eternal punishment' that compels most exegetes to accept the doctrine of eternal condemnation. I think that you created a false predicate by asserting that it is the word aion, that most have derived the principle of hell from. Hades and Sheol, to me, are the grave, the place where the physically dead await for Judgement Day. They are asleep and not animated, dormant. It is ghenna that denotes hell, which is the realm of eternal punishment (mental and self-inflicted, no flames),So, essentially, the entire doctrine rests on the definition of one word, which I believe is wrongly translated.
Yes, you should be concerned, ...your exegeis is so bad, that one would question your salvation, ...let alone your understanding of hell - of which you judge others so profusely.Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell.
Jude 1:23 (NKJV)
23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire,
You can't even name one?Yes, you should be concerned, ...your exegeis is so bad, that one would question your salvation, ...let alone your understanding of hell - of which you judge others so profusely.
It seems to me this is an opinion. It seem like a logical contradiction. The definition if death is, without life. How could one be dead, yet alive?
You continuously claim others to be unsaved, or threatening them with hell fire. I shouldn't have to bring this to your attention.You can't even name one?
No, hell is terrible per Jesus....Yes, but it's not what people today call Hell. Today Hell is a place of eternal conscious torment. In he Scriptures Hell is the grave
Is this an allegory of Jesus, too???...That's silly reasoning.
There is not one plausible logistic in that entire allegory.
There will be absolutely no visual or oral communication between the two groups.
One group will not be so daft as to ask that one from the other group, stretch their arm to offer an iota of water in order to alleviate their torment. (it's physically impossible).
No amount of water will ever vanquish their torment, it's a spiritual affliction.
No one will ever ask the saved to go back to earth for any purpose (completely unheard of)
There is no such thing Abraham's bossom, nor will one of the lost recognize Abraham.
Jesus depicted this scenario in such an illogical manner, just so that no one could possibly confuse it for an exact representation of either, hell, interim period, or the current state of the physically dead. No one is conscious right now who has physically died, they are all resting dormant in the grave waiting for Judgement Day.
Quoting an unanswerable scripture is all I am guilty of.Your judgmental attitude and reckless exegesis.
It seems to me this is an opinion. It seem like a logical contradiction. The definition if death is, without life. How could one be dead, yet alive?