What? The church age just following the Romans Catholic Church - Thyatira? You need to learn your church history. You're about 400 years off
The False Doctrine with key word "COVER"
- Thread starter CharismaticLady
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
What? The church age just following the Romans Catholic Church - Thyatira? You need to learn your church history. You're about 400 years off
Hey, CL.....Ever hear about those pesky “Sins Of Omission” That James talked about.....all of those things you know to do but you don’t do them? How many Strangers did you invite into you home today to feed and clothe? Spend any time today at the Soup Kitchen or at the Hospital , helping all of those people in need....once again—- who the Hell Do you think you are FOOLING?!! May God have Mercy on your Deceived Soul .The Grace Of God is the ONLY way You will be declared “ fit for Heaven “.....and you reject it......Like Cain, you are going to do things “ Your Way”....... it didn't work for Cain.....it ain’t gonna work for you.......
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
There are specific works that the Lord has foreordained that we should walk in (Ephesians 2:10)...sins of omission are when such a work is before us and we fail to do it.
But if we have the Holy Spirit and are in tune with the Spirit...and such a work is set before us...we will not fail to do it because we are in tune with the Holy Spirit.
Sins of omission does not have to do with the fact that I don't go and help with the soup kitchen when I have no opportunity to do so.
Also, you must realize that we are not saved by works (Ephesians 2:8-9).
Last edited:
Most often those who preach that we need to have obedience to the faith (Romans 1:5) and the obedience of faith (Romans 16:26) as believers are dismissed as being legalistic when they are merely touting that as believers in Christ we ought to be obedient.
Legalism has to do with saying that we must obey the law in order to be saved.
When we preach biblical obedience, we are preaching that doing the word is the sure result of a living and saving faith (see James 1:22-25). If we fail to be doers of the word, according to that passage, we are deceiving ourselves.
Jesus said in both the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:1 - Matthew 8:4) and the Sermon on the Plain (Luke 6:20-49) that if we hear His word and obey it, we are like a man who digged deep and laid his foundation on the rock; the storms of life came and were not able to shake the house. But if we hear and do not obey, we are like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: the storms of life came and beat against that house and it fell; and great was the fall of it.
This is not to say that we are not saved by grace through faith or that we are saved by works.
We are saved through an attitude that is inclined towards obedience and not by the obedience itself.
Last edited:
'Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more;
.. death hath no more dominion over Him.
.... For in that He died, He died unto sin once:
...... but in that He liveth, He liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,
.. but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
.... Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body,
...... that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.'
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin:
.. but yield yourselves unto God,
.... as those that are alive from the dead,
...... and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
For sin shall not have dominion over you:
.. for ye are not under the law, but under grace.'
(Rom 6:9-14)
'To the praise of the glory of His grace,
wherein He hath made us accepted in The Beloved.
In whom we have redemption through His blood,
the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace;
Wherein He hath abounded toward us ... ;'
(Ephesians 1:6-8)
Praise God!
Hello @CharismaticLady,
I thank you for answering my question. However, I see that our understanding concerning these things is very different, and I do not see that arguing will achieve anything. So I can only pray that God's will may be fully done in each one of us, for His Name and Glory's sake. and let the word of God (rightly divided) be the arbiter on this, and all other matters.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
*
Hello @CharismaticLady,
I have quoted your post, including the verses referenced in order to make reply, with the word of God quoted before my eyes for reference.
I don't want to argue with what you have said, but I do want to look at the verses you have referenced in order to see why you should have interpreted their message as you have.
* As with all Scripture we have to ask ourselves to whom it was addressed?
It was addressed to the disciples of the Lord Jesus, who were Jews, therefore obligated to keep the laws given by God to Israel, through Moses, under the terms of the Old Covenant.
* You and I as Gentiles were never under the law of Sinai. However, we know that all mankind have sinned and come short of the glory of God, for all 'in Adam' are under the law of sin and death, which came into the world through him. Only faith in the redeeming blood of Christ can deliver us from the bondage of the law of sin and death, and bring us into the liberty of the Spirit of Life which is 'in Christ Jesus' (Romans 8:2).
* Also the advocacy of Christ on our behalf relates to all sin, and is unconditional.
* The blood of Jesus Christ, God's Son, cleanses us from ALL SIN (1 John 1:7).
* As I have said the advocacy of Christ makes no distinction, it covers all sin (1 John 2:1). In Matthew 7:23 the Lord says the words you quote, 'Depart from Me, I never knew you, you workers of iniquity!', but to whom does it relate? It relates to those spoken of in the previous verse (Matthew 7:22), those who did not do the will of the Father, which is to believe on Him whom He had sent (John 6:29). Only unbelief could draw forth such a condemnation.
* In 2 Peter 1:9 reference is made to past sins having been forgiven, yes, but that by no means suggests that the sins of the present and future will not be equally forgiven by the grace of God in Christ Jesus. Is that not why Christ is at the Father's right hand as Advocate? and His offering was once for all (Hebrews 10:10).
'But this man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
From henceforth expecting till His enemies be made His footstool.
For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.'
(Heb 10:12-14)
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
From henceforth expecting till His enemies be made His footstool.
For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.'
(Heb 10:12-14)
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Last edited:
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Amen ! A truly Bible based hymn , thank you !
Hebrews 8:13- By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
Hebrews 10:1-5
For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near. 2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins? 3 But in those sacrifices, there is a reminder of sins year by year. 4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
Hebrews 10:11-14
Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
Hebrews 10:15-18
The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”
17 Then he adds: “Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.” 18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.
Hebrews 9:15-18
For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.16 In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood.
Ephesians 2:11-22
Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.
Galatians 3:21-26
Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
2 Corinthians 3:2-11
You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; 3 being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
4 Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. 5 Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, 6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. 10 For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.
Colossians 2:13-14
And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
Saved by Grace through Faith apart from works of the law.
Ephesians 2:8-10
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
John 6:28-29
28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”
29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
In a book of prophecies that correspond directly with church history and in order? They are three-fold.
1. The church of that day. Question: Why didn't Jesus write to the other churches? Seven is the number of completeness. Thus seven church ages. We are in the last church age.
2. Types of Christians
3. The history of the church until His Revelation, the second coming.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
You cannot prove that one bit and besides the Preterist view makes the most sense of revelation to the 1st century church with Matthew 24 and Revelation with the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem and Rome destroying the nation of Israel.
FYI- I'm not preterist but unlike you I understand the arguments and they are valid.
Hi, love
I try not to argue, just share what I've learned without provoking. I'm not perfect in that with some of the men on the forum whose testosterone levels like to be mean, and can never "be wrong." People can take it or shake it off. I admit, my doctrine is not anything I learned by another human being. It is through my own study, and prayer. We each have a responsibility and an opportunity on these forums, as there are many false doctrines in today's church age of Laodecia. Actually, the last four church ages all have begun denominations that will go to the end of time, the second coming.
2 Timothy 4:
2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers
Last edited:
I'm not preterist either. Finally, something we have in common, except you believing they are valid.
I don't see these people in Matthew 6 as unbelievers as they have gifts of the Spirit, and call Jesus Lord. There is only one way to get the true gifts of the Spirit and that is through belief in Jesus. Mark 16:16-18 - "those who believe." It is talking about sin, and choosing to sin once the desire to sin is no longer drawing us.
Matthew 6 is also part of the Sermon on the Mount. Jesus is not teaching the Old Covenant from Mount Sinai, but His New Covenant laws which go much deeper to the root cause of sin, thus hate in the inner core that produces murder. Lust causes adultery. Jesus came to take away our sin nature, to eradicate hate and lust, and cause us to LOVE. It is called being born again.
Question for you: If someone is born again, do they see an immediate change in themselves? Do they "feel" it happen?
Last edited:
The reality is that the law applies to Gentiles as well as to Jews.
All the world will be counted as guilty before God because of the law (Romans 3:19-20); and those of us who are saved were kept under the law until faith came (Galatians 3:23).
It is only believers in Christ who are not under the law.
Romans 3:10-18 speaks of the condition of all those who are under the law (see verse 19).
Do you suppose that Gentiles are exempt from this statement that all are sinners, because they are Gentiles?
But the church is exempt from this statement in Romans 3:10-18 (see verse 9; compare to 1 Corinthians 10:32). The Lord has made us into new creatures in Christ: the old has gone; behold, all things are become new (2 Corinthians 5:17 (kjv)).
Last edited:
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Amen sistah!
"2 Timothy 4:
2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers"
Yes, and it is happening right before our eyes, in this Laodicea Church age....do you connect this to the great apostacy?
"Actually, the last four church ages all have begun denominations that will go to the end of time, the second coming."
What an interesting study...the Church ages and, why have I never seen one single thread on this?? Hmm...maybe too confrontational for some. Wish we could just try to understand one another without judgement on here. God will be choosing a remnant of every Church where Christ is center, IMHO.
I understand that you truly do rely on your study and the Holy Spirit, as do I. But I do learn from sound teachers as well.
Sry. off topic
. I'm gonna get a warning if I don't stop doing that !!!"the men on the forum whose testosterone levels like to be mean, and can never "be wrong."
Amen sistah!
"2 Timothy 4:
2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers"
Yes, and it is happening right before our eyes, in this Laodicea Church age....do you connect this to the great apostacy?
"Actually, the last four church ages all have begun denominations that will go to the end of time, the second coming."
What an interesting study...the Church ages and, why have I never seen one single thread on this?? Hmm...maybe too confrontational for some. Wish we could just try to understand one another without judgement on here. God will be choosing a remnant of every Church where Christ is center, IMHO.
I understand that you truly do rely on your study and the Holy Spirit, as do I. But I do learn from sound teachers as well.
Sry. off topic
"the men on the forum whose testosterone levels like to be mean, and can never "be wrong."
It isn't actually off topic from the title, because one of those church ages, Sardis, is where the false doctrine regarding "cover" started!
'Not every one that saith unto me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day,
" Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?
and in thy name have cast out devils?
and in thy name done many wonderful works?"
And then will I profess unto them,
"I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
(Matthew 7:21-23)
Hello @CharismaticLady,
Spiritual gifts and miracles can be counterfeited, and the enemy of our souls will deceive many in the latter day by such tactics as these.
Thank you
Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris
Last edited:
He's not talking about counterfeit gifts; otherwise he would have said so somewhere in scripture. He's emphasizing that because spiritual gifts are irrevocable, Romans 11, we cannot depend on having gifts of the Spirit to save us, or even show that we are saved, but holiness, as without holiness, no man shall see God.
Because of this and many other warnings in the Bible regarding sin, I cannot believe in OSAS; at least, not in the way it was being taught in the Reformation. I do believe in assurance IF we keep His commandments, 1 John 3:21-24. Once we have the Spirit we can quench Him if we chose, otherwise Paul would not give the command to not quench the Spirit. So in Romans 8:9 you cannot be saved without the Spirit, so if you quench the Spirit, can you honestly say you are still saved (past tense)? "Depart from Me," would not be an invitation to go to heaven.
I believe Jesus puts us on the PATH to salvation called being saved (future), but we must still endure to the end to actually go to heaven. Revelation 22:11
If you believe in OSAS that's okay with me, as long as you are born again of the Spirit and hate sin as you walk in the Spirit (which I see you doing).
Last edited:
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Legalism does not really even exist . You simply have people who desire to look good and have the praise of men , YET they sin
in the dark and love it . Or you have those who are born again , they love truth , they love righteousness
they are as paul once said , zealously affected in a good thing and to do good.
Legalism sprang forth , or the term did , from preachers who desired to change the church .
it came against those who would warn against their message . CAUSE their message tickled the ears and kept the majority
FEEDING them pastors MONEY . SO they found ways to make any kind of warnings , seem as legalism .
Hey , they need the money and they dont wanna work for it . SO keep the majority happpy and YOU KEEP your business .
I would not heed a one of them dark wicked charlatons . IF JESUS , IF PAUL , IF JUDE , IF PETER , IF JOHN
all warned against sinning , and never once said , HEY man we sins all the time every day , LIKE TODAYS MINDSET
THEN WHY FOLLOW todays hyper grace mindset . IF they were stern and warned against sin
THEN WE MUST be the same . ITS why i say , OPEN BIBLES People . ONLY men would rather heed men . ITS VERY SAD INDEED .
Similar threads
