Peter identifies Jesus as our God and Savior

[kcnalp]

No its Jesus.These passages in Revelation make it clear that Jesus is God. Remember it is Jesus in the NT who is Coming back to earth that every eye will see. It was Jesus who was pierced on the cross for our sins. John is clearly once again calling Jesus God!!!!!!! The Coming and the coming in the clouds never refers to the Father in the NT but always to Jesus.

Revelation 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

We know from Revelation 1:8 that Alpha and Omega is the Almighty. So we can see that Christ is the Almighty

Revelation 1:17
17And when I saw Him, I fell at his feet as dead. And He laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I Am the first and the last:

We know from Revelation 1:17-18 that the first and the last is He that lives, was dead but is alive forevermore is Christ.

Revelation 2:8
"To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.

Revelation 22:12-13
12 "Behold, I Am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

We know from Revelation 22:13 that the first and the last is the Alpha and Omega.

Revelation 22:16,20
16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."
20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I Am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

The immediate text clearly tells us that it was Jesus who was pierced and who is Coming in the clouds. This person coming in the clouds is God(Jesus-the Son of Man),

Daniel 7:13-14
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 "And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Matthew 24:30-31
30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64
Jesus said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."

1 Thessalonians 4:17-18
Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Revelation 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

So we can see that the One who comes/is coming in the NT always refers to Jesus the Son of Man and NEVER refers to the Father. Therefore we can conclude it is Jesus who is coming whom John calls God the Alpha and Omega. This is sound biblical exegesis based on the context of the passage as well as the principle established in both Testaments on the One who is Coming in/with the Clouds- The Son of Man not the Father !!!!!!

Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
'I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.

Isaiah 48:12
"Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called;
I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.

hope this helps !!!

Perhaps I'm wrong. I thought I read a JW here say that Michael and Jesus are the same individual.

 

[101G]

Perhaps I'm wrong. I thought I read a JW here say that Michael and Jesus are the same individual.

that's what some JW believe. but the book of Revelation is from ONE person, JESUS ONLY. in the preface of the book, there is only one PERSON. Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:"

many of christian scholars as well as lay persons believe that here in verse 1 that there are two people/person standing next to each other, and one gave the other something, (the Revelation). well .... not true. there is only one person who the Revelation is about and from, JESUS.

and many also make the mistake in verses 4 & 5 of this first chapter, believing that the book is from three persons. listen, Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;"Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,"

Person #21, "from him which is, and which was, and which is to come", many say that this is the "Father".

Person #2, "from the seven Spirits", which many say is the "Holy Ghost/Spirit".

Person #3. "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness", well that's a give me. many say, the "Son".

well #2 is correct, because he, the Holy Spirit, is the, "him which is, and which was, and which is to come, THE FATHER", and the "faithful witness, Jesus the Christ, the SON".

John here as with Peter, Paul, and James and the rest of the apostles is declaring that the one true and living GOD is JESUS. and John is saying that this letter is from "ONE" person, JESUS, who hold all the titles above. this is his own REVELATION of himself to the churches.

so the book of Revelation is declaring JESUS as God, and he's not Michael, nor is he, JESUS, some kind of second person in any Godhead, nor is he's just the Son, but the Father as well.

I know that might not set well with a few, but the proof is right there in the the book itself. the only thing to do is to read it for yourself ... "WITH the HOLY SPIRIT", and you will see the truth.

as a diversified oneness, the book of Revelation is clear as day. diversity of oneself is throughout the book.

Christian need to read the word of God, instead of relying on what someone else say or tell them about the book. as I have always said, over again, "ye have not because ye ask not".

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

John 1:1-3- 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him;
Jesus is God of the Bible regardless of Watchtower lies![/Quote\]

The watchtower doesn't lie, the watchtower has always agreed that the first half of the first verse of John 1:1 has always said that the Word was with the God, not that the Word was God. Just because you and others want to contradict the first half of verse 1 of John 1:1 because of what the last half of verse 1 says doesn't mean the watchtower is lying. The watchtower has always maintained the the scriptures don't contradict themselves. So since the first half of John 1:1 isn't saying, in the beginning that the Word is God, but instead was with the God, then that's what is true. The last half of the first verse of John 1:1 doesn't contradict that. So you can reason on this scripture in a way that contradict the first half of verse 1 of John 1:1 all you want, but it's you that's contradicting scripture, not scripture contradicting scripture, and it's you who's lying, not the watchtower. The second verse of John chapter one says again that the Word was with the God not that the Word is God. I know that the way you reason you think it's ok to contradict the first half of John 1:1 and verse two of chapter 1of John but as I said scripture doesn't contradict scripture. So since as I said, the scriptures say, not that the Word is God in the first half of verse 1 of John chapter 1 but instead it says that the Word was with the God and the second verse of John chapter 1 says that the Word was with the God that's what the watchtower teaches. It's those like you who doesn't agree with what's written down.

 

[101G]

The watchtower doesn't lie, the watchtower has always agreed that the first half of the first verse of John 1:1 has always said that the Word was with the God, not that the Word was God.

well Barny, the term "WITH" indicate that God is a plurality of himself in flesh. supportive scripture, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

here the First is "WITH" the Last, so Barney is this two person or one person, notice the same "with" here as in John 1:1.

your answer please.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[kcnalp]

John 1:1-3- 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him;
Jesus is God of the Bible regardless of Watchtower lies![/Quote\]

The watchtower doesn't lie, the watchtower has always agreed that the first half of the first verse of John 1:1 has always said that the Word was with the God, not that the Word was God. Just because you and others want to contradict the first half of verse 1 of John 1:1 because of what the last half of verse 1 says doesn't mean the watchtower is lying. The watchtower has always maintained the the scriptures don't contradict themselves. So since the first half of John 1:1 isn't saying, in the beginning that the Word is God, but instead was with the God, then that's what is true. The last half of the first verse of John 1:1 doesn't contradict that. So you can reason on this scripture in a way that contradict the first half of verse 1 of John 1:1 all you want, but it's you that's contradicting scripture, not scripture contradicting scripture, and it's you who's lying, not the watchtower. The second verse of John chapter one says again that the Word was with the God not that the Word is God. I know that the way you reason you think it's ok to contradict the first half of John 1:1 and verse two of chapter 1of John but as I said scripture doesn't contradict scripture. So since as I said, the scriptures say, not that the Word is God in the first half of verse 1 of John chapter 1 but instead it says that the Word was with the God and the second verse of John chapter 1 says that the Word was with the God that's what the watchtower teaches. It's those like you who doesn't agree with what's written down.

John 1:1 (KJV)1 the Word was God.
(GenevaBible)1 that Word was God.
(ASV)1 the Word was God.
(AMP)1 the Word was God Himself.
(MontgomeryNT)1 the Word was God.
(CEB)1 the Word was God.
(CJB)1 the Word was God.
(Darby)1 the Word was God.
(ESV)1 the Word was God.
(HCSB)1 the Word was God.
(MaceNT)1 the Logos was God.
(NASB)1 the Word was God.
(NIV)1 the Word was God.
(NJB)1 the Word was God.
(NKJV)1 the Word was God.
(NRSV)1 the Word was God.
(RSV)1 the Word was God.
(TLB)1 is himself God.
(WesleyNT)1 the Word was God.
(WEY)1 the Word was God.
(YLT)1 the Word was God;
(Webster's Bible)1 the Word was God.
(MSG)1 The Word was God,

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

well Barny, the term "WITH" indicate that God is a plurality of himself in flesh. supportive scripture, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

here the First is "WITH" the Last, so Barney is this two person or one person, notice the same "with" here as in John 1:1.

your answer please.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

I could care less about anyones interpretation of the word "with" when everyone on the planet are imperfect humans. If that's the way you and others including the scholars you speak of want to view the word "with" at John 1:1, that's your choice. I however think of you and anyone else including the scholars as imperfect humans. I don't view you or anyone else including myself and the scholars as being infallible in their interpretation of scripture. This scripture at John 1:1 I believe is saying not that the Word is God but that the Word was with God. You believe the watchtower is lying I believe you and the scholars you speak of are wrong. I'm never going to think of you and these scholars as perfect infallible humans, so when it comes to my eternal life I'm going to decide what the scriptures are saying to me and what organization I believe has God's Holy Spirit. What you and others think, feel or have to say about that isn't going to concern me that much. If you or anyone else including these scholars will judge and call people false prophets and liars because they don't agree with what you or they believe, the only thing you'll teach me is that you think you all are perfect infallible humans and that's all you're going to teach me. So if you and others judge, I've learned from talking about what I believe is the truth to people it's wrong to judge. I'm guilty of judging myself and having to correct myself and stop judging people. It's a work in progress. Just because you and others including these scholars believe how you do about the word, "with" in John 1:1 doesn't convince me that the Holy Spirit has taught you this.

 

[kcnalp]

I could care less about anyones interpretation of the word "with" when everyone on the planet are imperfect humans. If that's the way you and others including the scholars you speak of want to view the word "with" at John 1:1, that's your choice. I however think of you and anyone else including the scholars as imperfect humans. I don't view you or anyone else including myself and the scholars as being infallible in their interpretation of scripture. This scripture at John 1:1 I believe is saying not that the Word is God but that the Word was with God. You believe the watchtower is lying I believe you and the scholars you speak of are wrong. I'm never going to think of you and these scholars as perfect infallible humans, so when it comes to my eternal life I'm going to decide what the scriptures are saying to me and what organization I believe has God's Holy Spirit. What you and others think, feel or have to say about that isn't going to concern me that much. If you or anyone else including these scholars will judge and call people false prophets and liars because they don't agree with what you or they believe, the only thing you'll teach me is that you think you all are perfect infallible humans and that's all you're going to teach me. So if you and others judge, I've learned from talking about what I believe is the truth to people it's wrong to judge. I'm guilty of judging myself and having to correct myself and stop judging people. It's a work in progress. Just because you and others including these scholars believe how you do about the word, "with" in John 1:1 doesn't convince me that the Holy Spirit has taught you this.

So you don't care about Kingdom Hall's interpretations? Or are you saying Kingdom Hall is "perfect"?

NWT John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God".

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

John 1:1 (KJV)1 the Word was God.
(GenevaBible)1 that Word was God.
(ASV)1 the Word was God.
(AMP)1 the Word was God Himself.
(MontgomeryNT)1 the Word was God.
(CEB)1 the Word was God.
(CJB)1 the Word was God.
(Darby)1 the Word was God.
(ESV)1 the Word was God.
(HCSB)1 the Word was God.
(MaceNT)1 the Logos was God.
(NASB)1 the Word was God.
(NIV)1 the Word was God.
(NJB)1 the Word was God.
(NKJV)1 the Word was God.
(NRSV)1 the Word was God.
(RSV)1 the Word was God.
(TLB)1 is himself God.
(WesleyNT)1 the Word was God.
(WEY)1 the Word was God.
(YLT)1 the Word was God;
(Webster's Bible)1 the Word was God.
(MSG)1 The Word was God,

I do believe you ignored what I texted. I said I don't think that the last half of verse one in John chapter 1 which says, "the word was God" doesn't contradict the first half of verse 1 of chapter 1 of John which says, "in the beginning the Word was with the God." So since the first half of verse 1 of chapter 1 of John is saying not that the Word is God but was with God that's what I believe. So I don't believe the word is God I believe the word is the Only Begotten Son of God, who was in the beginning with God.

 

[101G]

I could care less about anyones interpretation of the word "with" when everyone on the planet are imperfect humans. If that's the way you and others including the scholars you speak of want to view the word "with" at John 1:1, that's your choice. I however think of you and anyone else including the scholars as imperfect humans. I don't view you or anyone else including myself and the scholars as being infallible in their interpretation of scripture. This scripture at John 1:1 I believe is saying not that the Word is God but that the Word was with God. You believe the watchtower is lying I believe you and the scholars you speak of are wrong. I'm never going to think of you and these scholars as perfect infallible humans, so when it comes to my eternal life I'm going to decide what the scriptures are saying to me and what organization I believe has God's Holy Spirit. What you and others think, feel or have to say about that isn't going to concern me that much. If you or anyone else including these scholars will judge and call people false prophets and liars because they don't agree with what you or they believe, the only thing you'll teach me is that you think you all are perfect infallible humans and that's all you're going to teach me. So if you and others judge, I've learned from talking about what I believe is the truth to people it's wrong to judge. I'm guilty of judging myself and having to correct myself and stop judging people. It's a work in progress. Just because you and others including these scholars believe how you do about the word, "with" in John 1:1 doesn't convince me that the Holy Spirit has taught you this.

was that a reply or an excuse?

no need for a scholars it's right in the bible, ther is no need for any scholar, just read, and use your own head. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

so Barney is this ONE PERSON or TWO, as I said below, don't argue with 101G.......

now your answer please.


Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[kcnalp]

I do believe you ignored what I texted. I said I don't think that the last half of verse one in John chapter 1 which says, "the word was God" doesn't contradict the first half of verse 1 of chapter 1 of John which says, "in the beginning the Word was with the God." So since the first half of verse 1 of chapter 1 of John is saying not that the Word is God but was with God that's what I believe. So I don't believe the word is God I believe the word is the Only Begotten Son of God, who was in the beginning with God.

John 1:1 (KJV)1 the Word was God.
(GenevaBible)1 that Word was God.
(ASV)1 the Word was God.
(AMP)1 the Word was God Himself.
(MontgomeryNT)1 the Word was God.
(CEB)1 the Word was God.
(CJB)1 the Word was God.
(Darby)1 the Word was God.
(ESV)1 the Word was God.
(HCSB)1 the Word was God.
(MaceNT)1 the Logos was God.
(NASB)1 the Word was God.
(NIV)1 the Word was God.
(NJB)1 the Word was God.
(NKJV)1 the Word was God.
(NRSV)1 the Word was God.
(RSV)1 the Word was God.
(TLB)1 is himself God.
(WesleyNT)1 the Word was God.
(WEY)1 the Word was God.
(YLT)1 the Word was God;
(Webster's Bible)1 the Word was God.
(MSG)1 The Word was God,

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

So you don't care about Kingdom Hall's interpretations? Or are you saying Kingdom Hall is "perfect"?

NWT John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God".

All I said about the watchtower is that I have the right to decide if this organization has God's Holy Spirit. Also just like you I have the right to decide what I believe the scriptures are saying is true or not.Yes I believe it's the watchtower organization that has God's Holy Spirit. You don't want to believe that, that's your right, but just because you don't believe that doesn't mean I'm wrong for saying the watchtower has God's Holy Spirit. You believe it's some other organization that has God's Holy Spirit, so be it, that's your right. Just because I believe an organization has God's Holy Spirit which includes the watchtower doesn't mean I believe that the people in that organization are perfect or infallible humans. Any person or organization who believes they have God's Holy Spirit and thinks that person is perfect or infallible or that organization is filled with perfect infallible humans is wrong for believing that I believe.

 

[kcnalp]

All I said about the watchtower is that I have the right to decide if this organization has God's Holy Spirit. Also just like you I have the right to decide what I believe the scriptures are saying is true or not.Yes I believe it's the watchtower organization that has God's Holy Spirit. You don't want to believe that, that's your right, but just because you don't believe that doesn't mean I'm wrong for saying the watchtower has God's Holy Spirit. You believe it's some other organization that has God's Holy Spirit, so be it, that's your right. Just because I believe an organization has God's Holy Spirit which includes the watchtower doesn't mean I believe that the people in that organization are perfect or infallible humans. Any person or organization who believes they have God's Holy Spirit and thinks that person is perfect or infallible or that organization is filled with perfect infallible humans is wrong for believing that I believe.

Belief in the eternal fire is not required for residency therein. Those who tell others that there is no eternal Hell will have LOTS of blood on their hands on Judgment Day.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

was that a reply or an excuse?

no need for a scholars it's right in the bible, ther is no need for any scholar, just read, and use your own head. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

so Barney is this ONE PERSON or TWO, as I said below, don't argue with 101G.......

now your answer please.


Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Not an excuse, the truth. I nor the watchtower organization has ever said we were perfect infallible humans. Do we believe we have God's Holy Spirit, yes. If you disagree with that, so what. Don't you believe you have God's Holy Spirit. Does that mean you're a perfect infallible human because you believe you have God's Holy Spirit? I do read and use my own head, I just don't agree with what a lot of you are saying is the truth. I also don't think you're going to believe it am reading the scriptures and using my own head unless I agree with you. Like I said however I decide when it comes to what I believe the truth is and what organization has God's Holy Spirit. I don't let you nor anyone else decide that for me. You disagree with what I believe the truth is or what organization I believe has God's Holy Spirit, so be it, that's your right. That however doesn't mean I'm wrong in my choices however it just means we disagree.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

John 1:1 (KJV)1 the Word was God.
(GenevaBible)1 that Word was God.
(ASV)1 the Word was God.
(AMP)1 the Word was God Himself.
(MontgomeryNT)1 the Word was God.
(CEB)1 the Word was God.
(CJB)1 the Word was God.
(Darby)1 the Word was God.
(ESV)1 the Word was God.
(HCSB)1 the Word was God.
(MaceNT)1 the Logos was God.
(NASB)1 the Word was God.
(NIV)1 the Word was God.
(NJB)1 the Word was God.
(NKJV)1 the Word was God.
(NRSV)1 the Word was God.
(RSV)1 the Word was God.
(TLB)1 is himself God.
(WesleyNT)1 the Word was God.
(WEY)1 the Word was God.
(YLT)1 the Word was God;
(Webster's Bible)1 the Word was God.
(MSG)1 The Word was God,

Again you ignored what I texted, so be it.

 

[kcnalp]

Again you ignored what I texted, so be it.

The eternal Hell fire will be filled with people who don't believe in the eternal Hell fire.
NWT Rev 20 They will be tormented day and night FOREVER and EVER!

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Belief in the eternal fire is not required for residency therein. Those who tell others that there is no eternal Hell will have LOTS of blood on their hands on Judgment Day.

It can also be said that those who believe there is no death but instead teaches death is just another doorway to another plain of existence and therefore teach there is no death, will die and be dead till the resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous whether they believe or teach they're going to be dead until the resurrection or not.

 

[kcnalp]

It can also be said that those who believe there is no death but instead teaches death is just another doorway to another plain of existence and therefore teach there is no death, will die and be dead till the resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous whether they believe or teach they're going to be dead until the resurrection or not.

Who denies death? Not me. But death does not mean "cease to exist". Many will wish they ceased to exist though.
NWT Rev 20 They will be tormented day and night FOREVER and EVER!

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Who denies death? Not me. But death does not mean "cease to exist". Many will wish they ceased to exist though.
NWT Rev 20 They will be tormented day and night FOREVER and EVER!

If you believe people continue to exist when they die then you don't believe in death is what I get from the scriptures. If you continue to exist somewhere then that person is still living, he/she still has consciousness. So I believe I'm justified in believing that we have no consciousness when we die. Those who have been judged by God to get a resurrection whether they're righteous or unrighteous are in God's memory and therefore they're living to him because he remembers them. Those who God chooses not to remember because he has judged them not worthy of a resurrection are truly and eternally dead. They will never exist anywhere again because God does not remember them.

 

[kcnalp]

If you believe people continue to exist when they die then you don't believe in death is what I get from the scriptures. If you continue to exist somewhere then that person is still living, he/she still has consciousness. So I believe I'm justified in believing that we have no consciousness when we die. Those who have been judged by God to get a resurrection whether they're righteous or unrighteous are in God's memory and therefore they're living to him because he remembers them. Those who God chooses not to remember because he has judged them not worthy of a resurrection are truly and eternally dead. They will never exist anywhere again because God does not remember them.

Of course you ZERO Scripture. Death does not mean "cease to exist"!

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Of course you ZERO Scripture. Death does not mean "cease to exist"!

I've shown you scriptures before and you chose to disbelieve, that's your right. I have continue to say Adam went back to the dust from which he was taken. God didn't tell Adam he would go back to the dust from where he was taken and somewhere else