Not faith alone?

[theefaith]

Does anybody else out there ignore these giant “Scripture Walls”......

What a scripture wall?

 

[ChristisGod]

What a scripture wall?

I'm assuming its a wall of defense like a castle has around them for protection. A wall of scripture meaning lots of evidence to support making it irrefutable.

I could be wrong but that is what it means to me when I read it.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I have plenty of “ works”...... I just don’t dwell on them or brag about them because they are not things that “ I” do .Rather , they are the things that God does “ through” me.They did not save me nor do they “ keep” me Saved..... I am Saved because I have the Holy Spirit in me and these “ Good Works “ flow Naturally From That Spirit......as usual, anything “ good” that comes out of me stems from that “ inside of the Cup” thingy that Jesus talked about
I don’t Concentrate on “ being good”..... I do not concentrate on “ doing good”.I concentrate on doing it Paul’s way.....Now That I am Saved because I believe Paul’s Gospel and REST in it.....I concentrate on Finishing my Walk Of Faith the Way that I started it —- FAITH!
Faith is Believing in a Promise of God .....if you truly Believe God’s Promises ,you Will Act on them ...that is what I try to do.....I act on a Promise Of God.....That is Faith.....for that Faith ,God puts His Spirit in me and I “ FIND” myself doing the things that please God .....I don’t even have to try...it just comes out naturally.....I am obedient to what Jesus said through Paul .....How are we to “ LIVE” now that we are Saved ? Simple. “ The Just shall “ LIVE” by Faith
We do the Trusting—- He does the Saving....it works for me.....and it’s the Secret for being Obedient AND for doing “ Works”

And yet you attack anyone who says you have to have works because real faith produces real works.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

God puts His Spirit in me and I “ FIND” myself doing the things that please God .....I don’t even have to try...it just comes out naturally...

I think you're just saying what you have been taught is the right thing to say, not speaking from actual experience. True Christians know it isn't like this all of the time. There's often a real struggle with the true believer and the temptations of the flesh. I have my doubts about anyone who says they do not have this struggle.

Sometimes the true believer does the right thing only because they know it's the right thing to do while every fiber of their body is crying out to be satisfied. For the truly saved person, turning away from sin in that case is just as much walking by the Spirit as gliding easily into righteous acts is.

The more acquainted one becomes with battling the flesh the more easily their battle with the flesh becomes. It's sickening to see the corrupted church teach people that works don't matter because salvation is not by works. And teaching that you can live in your sin, even on purpose, and still be a saved believer, while teaching at the same time that obedience is automatic and will happen because you have faith. It's just plain junk from a corrupted church. On the bright side, ultimately that's the church for the willfully deceived and blind unbelievers, not for true believers who can see. I said 'ultimately', because true believers who can see won't hang around a church that teaches that junk forever. Because they have the Spirit they'll eventually see they teach junk—1 John 2:20.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Abel got Saved because he put his Faith in the Shed Blood Of an Innocent—- YOU had better do the same...

YOU had better be able to be able to show you have faith in the shed blood of Jesus. If you can't then you will go to the left with the goats as an unbeliever when Jesus comes back. There's no such thing as an unchanged believer. If your church and pastor doesn't know this, get out of there immediately because you are in a cult!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

“ Acts Of Love “ are great! They do not Save, however....

Show me just one poster in this thread that says acts of love earn salvation. Just one. And if you can't find one here go to another thread and find one. And if you do find one, me and you will have a little talk with them.

The Sinful Woman in this story was NOT Saved by what she DID.....she was Saved because of what she BELIEVED

No kidding, Sherlock. That's what I said.....because that's what the passage says.

Luke 7:46-50
46You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. 47Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little.”

48Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”

49The other guests began to say among themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”

50Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Your mistake is thinking this means you don't have to have done works of love for Christ to be saved from the lake of fire when he comes back. Faith that can not be seen is not the faith that justifies. Even Paul said this....

Galatians 5:6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

The only thing that counts to be justified is faith—you got that part down, no problem. The part you don't have down is the faith that justifies is the faith that can be seen in a person. You believe the lie of a corrupted church that says a confession of faith that is 'alone' accompanied by no works will get you a pass by Jesus into the kingdom when he comes back. That is NOT the faith that justifies.

 

[Illuminator]

And yet you attack anyone who says you have to have works because real faith produces real works.

James 2:24 is not an attack.
Galatians 5:6 is not an attack.

The faith that justifies us is “faith working through love,” not faith alone. This is one of the best summaries of Catholic teaching. Faith and love (manifested by works) are always connected. Faith (a process of thought) and love (an action) are never separated in the Scriptures. Cf. Eph. 3:17; 1 Thess. 3:6,12-13; 2 Thess. 1:3; 1 John 3:23; Rev. 2:4-5,19. Further, all faith (initial and perfected) are gratuitous gifts from God, and not earned or merited by any human action. God effects everything, both the willing and the achievement. But God also requires human action, which is necessary to perfect our faith. JUSTIFICATION - Scripture Catholic
Your perceived "attack" denies Calvinism that says human action isn't required or that faith doesn't need ongoing perfection. That is the real attack on the truth of Scripture.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It is not required that a man live a sinless life after being saved, from my estimation (1 John 2:1)....however, being saved will most assuredly result in walking in freedom and victory over sin...so, if someone sins after being saved, 2 Corinthians 13:5 ought to come into the picture.

Well that is a big change coming from you!

And reprobate is not one who falls short in deeds (sins) but one whose faith is proven false.

2 Cor. 13 ought to be compared with :

19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Works do not keep us saved! Works are a result of us being saved. OUr salvation is kept by Jesus and is reserved in heaven- we cannot undo what God has done.

YOu are now sounding like a maintain my salvation by works guy.

I do not wholly agree with that concept. I do believe that if we sin after coming to faith in Christ, that confessing our sins will in fact bring forgiveness. However, if you do not confess your sins, the blood of Jesus does not cover that sin until you confess it.

And also, willful sins are not on the table as being forgivable...they will not necessarily place a man in hell...they may actually be chastened by the Lord and punished according to Amos 3:2 and Hebrews 12:6...but they are not forgiven so that there will be no consequences in this life (or sometimes even in the next).

Now you are wrongly confusing positional fellowship with relational sonship! Unconfessed sin destroys our fellowship with god- but does not destroy or relationship as children of God. We still are His dear children- just being disobedient. Just like in a family, when a child disobeys he is sent to his room. He is still a child but the joys of the relationship have been blocked until that disobedience is dealt with.

So you are saying that if a person dies with an unconfessed sin on their soul- they go to th elake of fire!

that is a lie!

For you , you say Jesus gives eternal life, takes it away, gives it back again, takes it away, gives it back again and takes it away again.

YOu just said you hold to a modified belief of CL if you die and didn't confess a sin- Jesus didn't die for that one! Person could have led an exemplary life- had a moment of weakness, die before confessing and whoosh- straight to teh Lake! That is just so wrong on so many levels and does not even remotely look like what Scripture teaches.

You need to stop studying Scripture superficially or accepting the words of modern Pharisees.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

James 2:24 is not an attack.
Galatians 5:6 is not an attack.

The faith that justifies us is “faith working through love,” not faith alone. This is one of the best summaries of Catholic teaching. Faith and love (manifested by works) are always connected. Faith (a process of thought) and love (an action) are never separated in the Scriptures. Cf. Eph. 3:17; 1 Thess. 3:6,12-13; 2 Thess. 1:3; 1 John 3:23; Rev. 2:4-5,19. Further, all faith (initial and perfected) are gratuitous gifts from God, and not earned or merited by any human action. God effects everything, both the willing and the achievement. But God also requires human action, which is necessary to perfect our faith. JUSTIFICATION - Scripture Catholic
Your perceived "attack" denies Calvinism that says human action isn't required or that faith doesn't need ongoing perfection. That is the real attack on the truth of Scripture.

Ultimately, in the end, dead faith is no faith. That's why dead faith can not save a person on the day of judgement.

 

[justbyfaith]

YOu are now sounding like a maintain my salvation by works guy.

See Romans 11:20-22. It is not that we maintain our salvation by works; but that our works are maintained by our salvation.

Unconfessed sin destroys our fellowship with God <fify>-

So you are saying that if a person dies with an unconfessed sin on their soul- they go to the lake of fire!

that is a lie!

You have to deal with what it says in Ezekiel 33:11-20...

It seems to me, in that passage, to be saying that if we sin after having received the imputed righteousness of Christ, that our righteousness will not save us in the day of our transgression.

I consider that Ezekiel 33:11-20 is holy scripture and is therefore profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness.(2 Timothy 3:16).

Therefore, in order to keep your position, you will be required to show what that scripture really means and how I have misinterpreted it, I suggest that you go through each verse and expound on each verse and give us your exegesis of each verse in Ezekiel 33:11-20.

 

[Illuminator]

Ultimately, in the end, dead faith is no faith. That's why dead faith can not save a person on the day of judgement.

I've never met a Christian of any stripe who didn't care about their neighbor. All Christians do this good work in some form or another. So to me, this argument of "faith alone" is a big fat waste of time.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me.

Catholic Tradition...... “ By your Traditions you make void the Word Of God”
Pure Hog- Wash.... just like The fairy tale Land Of Purgatory.....Transubsomething......the Sinless Mary....so forth and so on.....

Who are you quoting in this post?

 

[ChristisGod]

I've never met a Christian of any stripe who didn't care about their neighbor. All Christians do this good work in some form or another. So to me, this argument of "faith alone" is a big fat waste of time.

agreed

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Person could have led an exemplary life- had a moment of weakness, die before confessing and whoosh- straight to teh Lake! That is just so wrong on so many levels and does not even remotely look like what Scripture teaches.

Which is why we need to remember the difference between sinning because we're weak in Christ and sinning because we have fallen away from belief in Christ. We don't even need to bring in the argument of if we were ever really saved to begin with. Because if we were never really saved to begin with we will go to hell for our unbelief. And if we really were saved and fell away we still go to hell for that unbelief. All unbelievers go to hell. So there's no point in beating that argument to death. All unbelievers—whether they ever really believed in God or not, that's not the point—go to the lake of fire when Jesus comes back. And even though there is the difference between sin that is committed because of weakness, and sin that is committed because you are fallen away, the Bible does talk about how sinning can lead to falling away in unbelief.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I've never met a Christian of any stripe who didn't care about their neighbor. All Christians do this good work in some form or another. So to me, this argument of "faith alone" is a big fat waste of time.

Don't tell me. Tell John and James!

1 John 3:17
17If anyone with earthly possessions sees his brother in need, but withholds his compassion from him, how can the love of God abide in him?

James 2:14-17
14What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you tells him, “Go in peace; stay warm and well fed,” but does not provide for his physical needs, what good is that? 17So too, faith by itself, if it does not result in action,f is dead.

They do not agree with you that this argument of faith alone is a big fat waste of time. Whether or not our faith is alone shows us if we are really saved or not!

1 John 3:18
18Little children, let us love not in word and speech, but in action and truth. 19And by this we will know that we belong to the truth

 

[Ferris Bueller]

He was not demanding “ Sinless Perfection” .....He knows That is Impossible for Anybody inhabiting a Body Of Flesh .Jesus was giving a warning about the specific sin he was dealing with at the time.....He told the Prostitute that he saved from getting stoned to “ go and sin no more” ....he was talking about her Life Of Prostitution, to infer what many infer is asinine. A life of “Sinless Perfection” was not a Burden and an impossibility that Jesus put on anybody...

What is asinine is to infer this means we can purposely sin all we want and still be saved when Jesus comes back. That's what's asinine. The person who does that is just showing themselves to be what they really are.......an unbeliever who isn't saved!

 

[justbyfaith]

Which is why we need to remember the difference between sinning because we're weak in Christ and sinning because we have fallen away from belief in Christ. We don't even need to bring in the argument of if we were ever really saved to begin with. Because if we were never really saved to begin with we will go to hell for our unbelief. And if we really were saved and fell away we still go to hell for that unbelief. All unbelievers go to hell. So there's no point in beating that argument to death. All unbelievers—whether they ever really believed in God or not, that's not the point—go to the lake of fire when Jesus comes back. And even though there is the difference between sin that is committed because of weakness, and sin that is committed because you are fallen away, the Bible does talk about how sinning can lead to falling away in unbelief.

If the person who seems to fall away was never saved to begin with, then they can still be saved.

If they were saved before and fell away, then it is impossible to bring them to repentance (Hebrews 6:1-8).

So, it does matter as to which is which; because in one situation there is at least hope for salvation concerning the one who seems to have fallen away.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

This has been reported as hate speech: upsetting to a member or group of members in the community. A violation of the rules. Jesus condemned false traditions invented by the Jews to avoid honoring their parents, He did not condemn the Traditions He himself followed all His life, He did not condemn the traditions Paul commands us to keep. Nowhere in the Bible is Scripture used to attack the Church, but you don't care, you do it it anyway because it is your man made tradition to so.

I don’t know you .....I have no desire to upset you or anybody else....If ANYBOdY here thinks that I am attacking them personally , I have failed to be careful enough—- or just got “ carried away”..... the only thing I desire to attack and will continue to attack is Bad DOCTRINE .....” Doctrine” that contains Gospel additions, Religion and Leaven — False and Perverted Gospels That lead people to “ Fall from Grace”, lead crippled, shipwrecked Walks Of Faith or stand accused by God that they are guilty of “ UNBELIEF. It’s Serious Stuff and needs to be exposed and attacked .The Stakes could NOT be higher.
I am fond of everybody In Here....some more than others , of course, lol......so please understand ....it’s Erroneous Doctrine I hate.....not people....There is so much bad teaching out there, it’s a miracle that “ anything” gets across that actually pleases God...The one’s that preach these False Gospels are the ones that are “ Accursed”— damned by God forever.
God Hates Leaven and the Spreaders Of it....THAT is what I am attacking.....I obviously need to be more careful to avoid misunderstandings ..... feel free to point out anytime I mess up...I’m quite sure that you” will ......lol......God bless....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

If you think salvation not being earned by works means you can arrive at the judgement without any works to show for your faith you are grievously mistaken. No changed life is just as much a sign of being unsaved for the works salvationist as it is for the greasy gracer.

“Changed Lives “ WILL occur, I stand in agreement with you there ......The ” Change “ may take time—— a LONG Time....
The change that God is the most concerned with may NOT be the one’s that the self-righteous Fruit Inspectors are looking for, however......cleaning up one’s Language.....putting down that bottle....putting out that cigarette.....stop looking at porn......All Of That “ outside of the Cup “ Stuff , while important , may get short - shrift as God gets to the ROOT of the unregenerate man’s problems—- things that need to be change on the “ Inside Of the Cup”. Perhaps God wants to change things inside of a man like anger and hot- headedness, a critical , judgemental Spirit , etc
The most important things to God are all inside of a person.....God wants to see a Contrite Heart ....God wants to see Kindness, Forgiveness , Mercy , Faith , Love for others , etc——-ALL INTERNAL “ CHANGES” , that are WAY more important to Him than putting out that smoke you might have in your hand.....people can “ change” external behaviors, and convince the Church Crowd that they are Saved. Yes, people can “Change”——— Only God can “ TRANSFORM” and that is the Task for the indwelling Holy Spirit to perform —- YOU can’t do it.....only God's Spirit can....
One of my favorite teachers of the Word used to say this ...” Bring to my Church every Sinner in this town ! You don’t have to Change to attend this Church—- but WATCH OUT! If you Turn to God with Faith in Jesus Christ , God just “ might “ decide to change YOU despite yourself!
One does not have to change to be a Christian ......That is putting the Cart before the Horse ....Become a True Christian by Believing and Resting in 1Cor15:1-4 and by doing THAT —- God will gift you with His Holy Spirit and your Life will change. It does not HAVE to but it WILL ....it is a RESULT of Salvation and not the CAUSE of it......never forget that Salvation is a GIFT .....GIVEN to those that don't work for it.....
If a person carries a piece of Radio- Active Uranium around with them all of the time —- I can guarantee you that they are going to be changed.....it may take a while, and the changes may not be visible to others......but Change is gonna happen. The Holy Spirit is much like this....God Bless...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

“Changed Lives “ WILL occur, I stand in agreement with you there ......The ” Change “ may take time—— a LONG Time....
The change that God is the most concerned with may NOT be the one’s that the self-righteous Fruit Inspectors are looking for, however......cleaning up one’s Language.....putting down that bottle....putting out that cigarette.....stop looking at porn......All Of That “ outside of the Cup “ Stuff , while important , may get short - shrift as God gets to the ROOT of the unregenerate man’s problems—- things that need to be change on the “ Inside Of the Cup”. Perhaps God wants to change things inside of a man like anger and hot- headedness, a critical , judgemental Spirit , etc
The most important things to God are all inside of a person.....God wants to see a Contrite Heart ....God wants to see Kindness, Forgiveness , Mercy , Faith , Love for others , etc——-ALL INTERNAL “ CHANGES” , that are WAY more important to Him than putting out that smoke you might have in your hand.....people can “ change” external behaviors, and convince the Church Crowd that they are Saved. Yes, people can “Change”——— Only God can “ TRANSFORM” and that is the Task for the indwelling Holy Spirit to perform —- YOU can’t do it.....only God's Spirit can....
One of my favorite teachers of the Word used to say this ...” Bring to my Church every Sinner in this town ! You don’t have to Change to attend this Church—- but WATCH OUT! If you Turn to God with Faith in Jesus Christ , God just “ might “ decide to change YOU despite yourself!
One does not have to change to be a Christian ......That is putting the Cart before the Horse ....Become a True Christian by Believing and Resting in 1Cor15:1-4 and by doing THAT —- God will gift you with His Holy Spirit and your Life will change. It does not HAVE to but it WILL ....it is a RESULT of Salvation and not the CAUSE of it......never forget that Salvation is a GIFT .....GIVEN to those that don't work for it.....
If a person carries a piece of Radio- Active Uranium around with them all of the time —- I can guarantee you that they are going to be changed.....it may take a while, and the changes may not be visible to others......but Change is gonna happen. The Holy Spirit is much like this....God Bless...