OSAS anyone? Opinions on Once Saved Always Saved

[marks]

Sometimes I see in these battles over OSAS, Trinity, Holy Ghost and others a the test for God not on the specifics of those doctrines, but rather on the persons involved and their charity, or the lack thereof for and/or toward others! Help us all dear Lord!

I think a big part of why I participate in these discussions is seeking unity among those who profess Christ yet have different ideas about things.

I recognize that each of us has a unique relationship with our Maker, and He just might be using different methods in training you in your faith than He is training me in mine.

Yes, control of the tongue. I admit, I get caught up in the discussion, and forget the ministry. I have to remember my real desire is to give a gift and not just provide contraversy. I've done that before to you and I apologize! Though I know that's not why you mentioned it.

:)

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

Lasciviousness just isn't a word people use much anymore, though I agree on the KJV.

Much love!

It is still a valid word and if anyone doesn't understand what it means they can look it up in an English dictionary or find the definition of the word in Greek, in a Strong's Concordance.

 

[marks]

It is still a valid word and if anyone doesn't understand what it means they can look it up in an English dictionary or find the definition of the word in Greek, in a Strong's Concordance.

Just so. My wife and I both are familiar enough with KJV it's all a part of our vocabulary, so it's easy to discuss things.

Much love!

 

[Nancy]

For me, it has been a developed habit, working for years with deaf people, to be as precise as possible.



Yes. Different.

HAVE been saved, (believe)
ARE being saved, (while continuing)
SHALL BE saved. (If)

Sounds like an uncertainty, that His Gift is dependent upon you to Keep it.

I rather believe I have God my word to God for His Power to Ensure I Keep His Gifts.

God Bless,
Taken

Some translations say "are being saved". But I suppose it is a "tense" thing.
Although, I must repent of the doubt of my salvation that can creep in at times if not on guard. And, the only thing I can compare "being saved" to is, the fact that we must finish the race.
It is a done deal, Amen!

 

[amadeus]

A love for the truth!

My greatest concern regarding Scripture is to misunderstand it, though I trust the Holy Spirit to lead me. One of my great pleasures is to find where I am contradicted by the Bible, because then I am closer to understanding.

Much love!

If we are being led always by the Holy Spirit, we will follow the right pathway, the highway of holiness. Loving the truth of course is the secret, which is not a secret to anyone who does. The problem that some people have, I believe, is that they think they have to know all of the truth in order to love it. I would say rather that we need to love the truth even when we not see it clearly since certainly early in our walk with God, our vision is not very good. That is to say, our vision of the Truth, of Jesus, is as through a glass darkly, but because of our love, it continues to improve moving toward...that face to face vision!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

My friend, the devils believe! Jesus is certainly speaking of something more than believing that he exists!

Out Of context Scripture Quoting.....The Devil’s Believe there is “ one” God....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Who exactly is it who wants to sin? You? Me? @Nancy ? I don't, myself. Do you?

Much love!

Sin has all the appeal for me as a Drano enema.....it’s like sticking my hand in a fire......why would I want to DO that........confused religionists never understand that...... Born-Again Christians do....
I sin as much as I “want”..... why, just last night I got just as drunk as I “ wanted” to. It turned out that when it came to my desire to get drunk — my “want to” was Zero.....
Many things are “ Spiritually” Discerned . Those without God’s Spirit never figure things out.....it just ain’t “ in” them.....

 

[justbyfaith]

I recently ran across the following in my nlt...

Gal 2:19, For when I tried to keep the law, it condemned me. So I died to the law—I stopped trying to meet all its requirements—so that I might live for God.

and,

Rom 8:7, For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God’s laws, and it never will.

Therefore the key is to stop trying to meet all the requirements of the law, and to let God do it by dealing with your sinful nature so that you obey God without "trying" to meet the requirements.

That is why I liked your post, @Blood Bought 1953...

This was a revelation for me that brought me back into my previous understanding before I got hit by Ezekiel 33:11-20.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Therefore the key is to stop trying to meet all the requirements of the law, and to let God do it by dealing with your sinful nature so that you obey God without "trying" to meet the requirements.

Not really. You confirm your faith and meet the requirements of the law in love:

Romans 13:8-10 KJV
[8] Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. [9] For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [10] Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[justbyfaith]

Not really. You confirm your faith and meet the requirements of the law in love:

Romans 13:8-10 KJV
[8] Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. [9] For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. [10] Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

When the Lord deals with your sin nature and replaces it with His Spirit, the love of the Lord is shed abroad in your heart (Romans 5:5).

Then, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in you because of the following (in the nlt):

Col 2:11, When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision—the cutting away of your sinful nature.

Rom 8:12, Therefore, dear brothers and sisters, you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do.
Rom 8:13, For if you live by its dictates, you will die. But if through the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live.
Rom 8:14, For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.

 

[Taken]

Some translations say "are being saved". But I suppose it is a "tense" thing.
Although, I must repent of the doubt of my salvation that can creep in at times if not on guard. And, the only thing I can compare "being saved" to is, the fact that we must finish the race.
It is a done deal, Amen!

I look at "finish the race" paralleled with "enduring to the end"

Nearly 100 passages of enduring are specific To God, Him, His Mercy, His Righteousness, etc.

Pertaining to mankind-
There are Scriptures that Apply to Israel specific... enduring to their end ... is BY their own Personal Power...(without belief IN Christ Jesus and Baptism of Gods Spirit/Power within). And they will be Saved, by Gods Enduring Mercy...as, Prophecy foretells, we find in Revelations, HOW, is by God Sending Israel Servants to Teach Israel Christ Jesus is their Salvation.

There is "enduring to the end"...also for the Already Saved (Converted in Christ).
It is NOT Enduring TO RECEIVE or KEEP, their Salvation...which the Converted Already HAVE;
It IS Rather...enduring always the hard times, particularly the "Persecution" men have, DO, and shall Suffer....precisely BECAUSE they Believe.

The Converted man, was Forewarned, they would be Hated by the World, taunted, terrorized for their Commitment to Christ the Lord God....and they Are, and that Shall Increase...as more Reject and fewer stand in Christ...as we are now observing in the US over a very short span of years.

The Sav-ED are Not in jeopardy...however on personal and world levels...the Against God movement is increasing...alternate practices are being introduced and Widely Accepted particularly with upcoming younger generations....and the ones steering the high powered direction are NOT Godly...but rather wealthy high powered anti-God political money backers.

It is not a novel idea to create a crisis, and sway the people in fear, to "their" (dictatorial) political Solution, away from Godly Trust.

I am Already Sav-ED and Born Again, Baptized with Gods Spirit/Power...
My enduring to the end...is About Persecution of Men Against God, against me...
And my Difference from Israel...is I Have A Comforter, within me, FOR the trying Times, and the progression of Trying Times, as we are observing the onset, of what will increase.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Michiah-Imla]

When the Lord deals with your sin nature and replaces it with His Spirit

He does no such thing with the “sin nature”. The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts through faith, but this does not “replace” the flesh.

The believer must put to death the deeds of the body. What God did through Christ was offer to men the free gift of forgiveness of sins by faith in Christ to qualify for eternal life. Man has the free will to allow or disallow the deeds of the body (sin nature) to rule or be subdued.

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi @Michiah-Imla,

Please read Romans 6:6 and Colossians 2:11.

The nlt clarifies it in Colossians 2:11; but you can still get the message of it in the kjv.

If you combine them both in the kjv, you will find that "the body of sin" even "the body of the sins of the flesh" is first destroyed, and then put off from the believer through the circumcision of Christ (baptism), the circumcision made without hands.

In the nlt:

Col 2:11, When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision—the cutting away of your sinful nature.

 

[amadeus]

Out Of context Scripture Quoting.....The Devil’s Believe there is “ one” God....

And does not context essentially speak of order... in this case, not the order of men, but of God? Consider Numbers, chapters 2 & 10. How well do we understand that? Help us dear Lord to understand!

 

[Bible_Gazer]

where does it say that the penalty of sin has changed from death to life ?

Those who have been given Eternal Life have passed from death into life. if one does not come into Judgment and is not condemned has their sins covered and paid for by Christ.

John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 3:16-18
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

hope this helps !!!

This is a new testament rule.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The scriptures you gave, I am sure Jesus meant that a believer would live his words and be complete in salvation.
Just believing don't save you by itself only.
There is to many thing you have to do or be to be complete in Christ Jesus's Image.
Believing is just the beginning of your salvation for life, its not the ending of it.
If we are righteous then you won't be in danger of the judgement or condemnation for death.

So the penalty of sin committed is still the same for death not life.

Plus sinfulness is in the heart, forgiveness does not change that.
A renewing of the thoughts has to be converted not to sin.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[ChristisGod]

where does it say that the penalty of sin has changed from death to life ?


This is a new testament rule.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The scriptures you gave, I am sure Jesus meant that a believer would live his words and be complete in salvation.
Just believing don't save you by itself only.
There is to many thing you have to do or be to be complete in Christ Jesus's Image.
Believing is just the beginning of your salvation for life, its not the ending of it.
If we are righteous then you won't be in danger of the judgement or condemnation for death.

So the penalty of sin committed is still the same for death not life.

Plus sinfulness is in the heart, forgiveness does not change that.
A renewing of the thoughts has to be converted not to sin.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Ephesians 2:8-10
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Please read Romans 6:6

Yes, but please read further to verses 11-12:

Romans 6:11-12 KJV
[11] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. [12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

The believer must deal with the “sin nature”. It is not replaced.

 

[ChristisGod]

Yes, but please read further to verses 11-12:

Romans 6:11-12 KJV
[11] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. [12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

The believer must deal with the “sin nature”. It is not replaced.

Agreed. Its why we must die to self daily-deny self/ourselves, take up our cross and follow Him.

And Paul in other places talks about the deeds of the flesh, crucifying the flesh etc....

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, but please read further to verses 11-12:

Romans 6:11-12 KJV
[11] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. [12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

The believer must deal with the “sin nature”. It is not replaced.

There is more than one type of Christian...some believers have not yet come to the end of themselves and therefore they have to struggle with the flesh because it remains in them. Other believers, who have received the "second benefit" (2 Corinthians 1:15) of 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), and 1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, and 1 John 2:6; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, and 1 John 2:10; and 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17, and Colossians 2:11 (nlt)....have come to the end of themselves and the flesh has been crucified within them (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24).

 

[Michiah-Imla]

There is more than one type of Christian...some believers have not yet come to the end of themselves and therefore they have to struggle with the flesh because it remains in them. Other believers, who have received the "second benefit" (2 Corinthians 1:15) of 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), and 1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, and 1 John 2:6; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, and 1 John 2:10; and 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17, and Colossians 2:11 (nlt)....have come to the end of themselves and the flesh has been crucified within them (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24).

In that believers have “crucified the flesh with its desires” means that they continue in the faith grounded and settled and are not moved away into sin, not that the desires of the flesh are gone. But they no longer struggle in futility against sin; doing the evil that they do not want to do.

Those who have not crucified the flesh do not have Christ in them:

Romans 8:9 KJV
[9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

There’s only ONE type of believer, a true believer. All others profess that they know God, but in works they deny him (Titus 1:16).