Let’s Do a “ Dangerous” Experiment— BB plays “ God”......

[Ferris Bueller]

That guy who had sex with his own Mother, or perhaps his “Stepmother” if you want to play “ nicey” . You think that was NOT a “ Willful Sin?” Baloney.

We don't know. It doesn't say.

The man was a Saved member of Paul’s Church . A Believer.

It's hard not to assume that the sinner in 1 Corinthians 5 was a believer. But it doesn't really say that. The important points to take away from 1 Corinthians 5 are 1) whether he was a believer or not, that's not the point, he could not be saved when Jesus comes back unless his flesh was crucified, and 2) Paul's language in the passage shows us that it wasn't a given that his flesh would be crucified so he could be saved on the day of Jesus as the church teaches. The church can't even see that Paul is not saying it is necessary that this dude be killed. We know that because he did come to his senses without being killed. That shows us that 'the destruction of the flesh' means having his fleshly sinful deed put to death.

Colossians 3:5
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust.......

 

[Ferris Bueller]

....it could happen to ANYBODY .....even those that think they are “ above” willfull sin.....Why else would Paul give the WARNING that he did to ALL the church members ?He warned them not to get “ cocky” about this whole matter and look down on this man.why? Paul warned—— YOU MIGHT BE NEXT!

I don't now purposely sin. Never have. But I'm not so arrogant as to think I'm above the possibility. A lot would have to change for me for that to happen. Somewhere along the line the temporary wages of sin in this life would have to become more valuable to me than an eternity in the warm fellowship of the Holy Spirit I now have. The longer I walk in the light of God's love and comfort the less likely it is that I will purposely choose to insult the Spirit of grace by willfully sinning and throwing my faith in the blood to the curb.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Heaven will be a Home for many a Willful Sinner! Moses was a murderer......David was a Murderer and an Adulterer.....I guess these guys Murdered accidentally .....and poor ol’ David ! Committing Adultery by accident? Nathan must have been wrong when he confronted David with his Willful sins.Right?

No, lol. They didn't sin by accident. Nor did they sin purposely and flagrantly in the face of the grace they had. They sinned for the same reason all honest, God seeking believers sin........out of weakness, ignorance, thoughtlessness, deception, fear.... God's grace has all those reasons covered for the believer. What God's grace does not cover is contemptuous, in your face, defiant sin. That sin is motivated by unbelief. There is no forgiveness for purposely and willingly and knowingly choosing to be in unbelief.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

...all anybody had to do was to “ cash in” on what Jesus had already accomplished at the Cross and most of the World freely chose to reject.....THAT is the “ Willful Sin” that gets one damned—— willfully rejecting the Gospel

Yep. And purposely and defiantly choosing to willfully sin and turn away from God is just that......rejecting the gospel of grace. That's what you're not understanding. That is what your teachers do not know.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The man was SAVED by his Faith in Christ, yet ASHAMED because of his Behavior.....He” made it in” like “ a man escaping a burning house”.......what a way to enter Heaven....ashamed of yourself with welts all over your Rear-End .

How are you getting that out of 1 Corinthians 3:8-15, lol? I see Paul saying being 'saved yet as by fire' means the saved person has no work to show for his labor in the field and building of God. And so he will have no reward for his ministry work when Jesus comes back. It has nothing to do with a believer being able to live in sin but still be saved when Jesus comes back. The corrupt, uneducated church has taught you that's what it means. All you have to do is read it and see it's about not having anything to show for the ministry of watering and planting and building you did in the field and building of God (which is why we should be careful how we do that—vs10). Besides, if it meant what your teachers say it means that contradicts the rest of the Bible that says the person who has no works of right living is not born again.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

He's got the part about love for others being the motivation to not sin that actually works right. But the poison he adds to that message is saying the 'believer' can refuse the grace of God by purposely and willingly sinning. He rejects John's teaching that the person who does that is not born again. Even though he acknowledges that Hebrews 10:26 is talking about the unbelieving person who rejects the grace of God. He's quite confused.

Duh.

 

[farouk]

How are you getting that out of 1 Corinthians 3:8-15, lol? I see Paul saying being 'saved yet as by fire' means the saved person has no work to show for his labor in the field and building of God. And so he will have no reward for his ministry work when Jesus comes back. It has nothing to do with a believer being able to live in sin but still be saved when Jesus comes back. The corrupt, uneducated church has taught you that's what it means. All you have to do is read it and see it's about not having anything to show for the ministry of watering and planting and building you did in the field and building of God (which is why we should be careful how we do that—vs10). Besides, if it meant what your teachers say it means that contradicts the rest of the Bible that says the person who has no works of right living is not born again.

@Ferris Bueller The Lord Jesus indeed said, "By their fruits ye shall know them" (Matthew 17.20).

 

[farouk]

the gospel of grace.

@Ferris Bueller Grace is the key, right? Ephesians 2.8-9

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes, you had to repent and turn back to God to be forgiven. There was no forgiveness available to you until you did that. Like the dude sleeping with his father's wife in 1 Corinthians 5. But the church tells us that we are forgiven even if we don't come back from willful sin. Just as long as we have faith, they say. Not knowing that walking away from God and purposely sinning is not having faith, that's unbelief.

I'm only just thankful that there was still a sacrifice for sins after I willfully sinned because I finally became able to repent.

Really, to be faithful to the scripture (Hebrews 10:26-31), there was no sacrifice for the sin that I committed willfully; but Hebrews 12:5-11 kicked in and I was chastened/disciplined/punished for that willful sin. Thankfully, after I was fully punished, the Lord was able to restore me to my former state of walking as someone who is born again.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

How are you getting that out of 1 Corinthians 3:8-15, lol? I see Paul saying being 'saved yet as by fire' means the saved person has no work to show for his labor in the field and building of God. And so he will have no reward for his ministry work when Jesus comes back. It has nothing to do with a believer being able to live in sin but still be saved when Jesus comes back. The corrupt, uneducated church has taught you that's what it means. All you have to do is read it and see it's about not having anything to show for the ministry of watering and planting and building you did in the field and building of God (which is why we should be careful how we do that—vs10). Besides, if it meant what your teachers say it means that contradicts the rest of the Bible that says the person who has no works of right living is not born again.

———————————————————————————————————
Besides, if it meant what your teachers say it means that contradicts the rest of the Bible that says the person who has no works of right living is not born again.

Titus 3:5.....” God Saved us, not because of the righteous things we had done, but because of His Mercy....
Acts15:11....” we believe that we are all saved in the same manner—- the undeserved Grace Of The Lord Jesus.....”
ROM 11 :6 “ if it is by Grace, it is no longer on the basis of Works, otherwise Grace is no longer Grace ..”
Eph2:8-9 “ God Saved you by His Grace when you Believed....you get no credit for this ....it is a Gift from God. Salvation is Not a reward for the good things that we have done, therefore , no one can boast about it....”

I’m telling you people—- sometimes it’s like shooting a Fish in a Barrel .....It really “ IS” just like the Song says when it comes to our Salvation......” Nothing But The Blood”
Please tear it out of your hymnal if you are going to be a Liar and a hypocrite about it— singing a song you don’t really believe in “ The House Of God”..... God don’t like it.

 

[justbyfaith]

———————————————————————————————————
Besides, if it meant what your teachers say it means that contradicts the rest of the Bible that says the person who has no works of right living is not born again.

Titus 3:5.....” God Saved us, not because of the righteous things we had done, but because of His Mercy....
Acts15:11....” we believe that we are all saved in the same manner—- the undeserved Grace Of The Lord Jesus.....”
ROM 11 :6 “ if it is by Grace, it is no longer on the basis of Works, otherwise Grace is no longer Grace ..”
Eph2:8-9 “ God Saved you by His Grace when you Believed....you get no credit for this ....it is a Gift from God. Salvation is Not a reward for the good things that we have done, therefore , no one can boast about it....”

I’m telling you people—- sometimes it’s like shooting a Fish in a Barrel .....It really “ IS” just like the Song says when it comes to our Salvation......” Nothing But The Blood”
Please tear it out of your hymnal if you are going to be a Liar and a hypocrite about it— singing a song you don’t really believe in “ The House Of God”..... God don’t like it.

I think he is saying, not that we are saved through doing good works; but that we will most assuredly do good works if we are truly born again.

If we believe in Jesus we have the Spirit (Galatians 3:14).

Through the Spirit we receive the love of the Lord (Romans 5:5).

This love is never impractical (1 John 3:17-18).

Therefore, if we are not practically exhibiting the love of the Lord, it signifies that we are not born again.

 

[farouk]

I think he is saying, not that we are saved through doing good works; but that we will most assuredly do good works if we are truly born again.

If we believe in Jesus we have the Spirit (Galatians 3:14).

Through the Spirit we receive the love of the Lord (Romans 5:5).

This love is never impractical (1 John 3:17-18).

Therefore, if we are not practically exhibiting the love of the Lord, it signifies that we are not born again.

Ephesians 2.10 indeed says 'we are His workmanship', which follows on from salvation by grace through faith.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Don't be foolish. Just because the believer is not damned for his sins because of his faith in Christ does not mean he is free to do those things.

I think you are confused as to what I am saying.....I am saying a person should NOT sin.....they ESPECIALLY should not WILlFULLY SIN......but the Truth is , they CAN.....and they DO.....You seem to think that I am saying that they can “ Sin and get away with it” ....NO WAY....one can NOT Sin and get by......all of those that sin in this lifetime will PAY for it in this Lifetime....David would be a good example of this.....
If you are a Believer ,your Sins are on the Cross, Forgiven and Forgotten by God as far as Salvation is concerned ....an act of pure Grace and Love from God.....done for the Sake Of His Son and because it gives Him “ Good Pleasure” to do so.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

This is incredibly stupid. You should address the actual argument being leveled against you. Don't talk about the misguided doctrine of an equally corrupt church that no one is defending.

Willfully sinning is the sign of the unbeliever. They are the one's who are 'free' to indulge the flesh. They are the ones who are free from the control of righteousness.

Romans 6:20
20When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness.

Willfully sinning is the sign of the unbeliever.



Sorry, no cigar.....” Willful Sinning” is a sign of a Willful Sinner. Nothing more. Nothing less. Like you. Like me. If you have a Thinking Cap, please put it On and attempt to do some deeper thinking—- almost EVERY sin you commit is a “ willful” one.....
You are either a bit “ dim” or you are too lazy to STUDY God's Word .....your misunderstanding of Hebrews 10 has corrupted your entire understanding of the Ways Of God.....go to Andrew Farley or Les Feldick and get your thinking straightened out....a ten year old can understand what the “ Willful Sin” in Hebrews 10 is referring to.....unless one is severely “ stiff-necked”......

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I have plenty of Scripture; both sides do. The problem is that I have never seen closure on the matter.
(And I don't think we will until 1 John 3:2 takes place.)

Instead of reinventing the wheel, let's just look at previous threads on the matter and see if they haven't already made the same points that you or I intend to make...

Using this forum's search box, I got 9,100 hits for "OSAS."
Are you confident that you could make a new, irrefutable argument in that debate?
(I have no confidence that either of us could. It would be a colossal waste of time.)

Nobody Calls Me Chicken

The problem is that I have never seen closure on the matter.

Here is your “ closure”......I have yet to see ANYBODY refute this TRUTH spoken of by Jesus himself
“ All Of Those That Trust In Me ALREADY HAVE ETERNAL LIFE and shall NEVER come under Condemnation”
Many see this verse when I show it ..nobody yet will even ADDRESS it — much less prove it wrong in regard to the Proof that it offers for OSAS adherents....only somebody who is completely divorced from reality would even make the attempt....it’s “ case closed”..... so what do the opponents do? The only thing they “ can” do.....divert the conversation, change the sublet, or ignore it .

 

[BloodBought 1953]

For one I think you have a very brash, judgmental, and unloving, and condescending manner about you. And please don't make excuses for it. Just accept the rebuke and realize that love for God IS love for others. You love God by loving others.

Lol....your “ rebuke” is worth exactly what I paid for it —- NOTHING! If I did not “ love” others , I would not be using up all of this valuable computer ink to try to warn poorly taught Church goers they have been the victims of “ self- called” instead of “ God- Called” Bible Teachers most of their lives. 90% of the churches out there ADD to Paul’sGospel Of Pure Grace and they consider their “ additions” things to be Proud Of. They endure their Faith Walks, Crippled—- they are “ Fallen from Grace “ and mistakenly think that Term means a supposed “ righteous man of God” was caught in some+kind of Big Time Sin—- a la Jimmy Swaggert, Jim Bakker , etc.....
“ Fallen From Grace” means you think that although Jesus is ” Neccessary” for your Salvation......He is just not “Sufficient “ for Salvation—— there is something that “ YOU” must add.....essentially robbing Jesus of the TOTAL Glory due to Him, you gotta be “Co- Savior” in effect....
I used to be Legalist.....now I am a man who is “ Free in Christ”.... a man who knower TRUE Joy and Peace—- ALL of the time ....it is Wondrous ! I want others to have this “ Abundant Life” That has been Promised to Believers. What I have really does not LIVE until you “ give it away” .....that’s what I try to do....sorry , hang me from the Highest Tree......

Btw.....please try not to judge me by theses posts.....it is the Nature Of communicating in this manner that makes the sweetest person on the planet come off as harsh and overly stern.....
If you knew me personally, you would like me a lot .....I am very sensitive to the feelings of others, I go out of my way to be thoughtful and kind to everyone, and I possess a wit and a sense of silliness that will have you smiling and laughing all day....plus I am humble about all of my great qualities....lol....God bless...

 

[Sabertooth]

Here is your “ closure”......I have yet to see ANYBODY refute this TRUTH spoken of by Jesus himself
“ All Of Those That Trust In Me ALREADY HAVE ETERNAL LIFE and shall NEVER come under Condemnation”

So, closure for eternal security vs conditional security is
"OSAS is the most accurate doctrine, FTW!...?"

[rhetorical] Why didn't I think of that...?

[/rhetorical]

 

[Ferris Bueller]

@Ferris Bueller Grace is the key, right? Ephesians 2.8-9

Right. It's all about grace, through and through.

 

[kcnalp]

The problem is that I have never seen closure on the matter.

Here is your “ closure”......I have yet to see ANYBODY refute this TRUTH spoken of by Jesus himself
“ All Of Those That Trust In Me ALREADY HAVE ETERNAL LIFE and shall NEVER come under Condemnation”

Chapter and verse please.

 

[justbyfaith]

plus I am humble about all of my great qualities....lol....God bless...

I was once given an award for humility and proceeded to pin it up on my wall...