Let’s Do a “ Dangerous” Experiment— BB plays “ God”......

[Ferris Bueller]

If sinning after salvation would result in us becoming unsaved, why would God even bother with us in the first place, knowing our sinful proclivities?

Only the sin of rejecting grace is the sin that can't be atoned for. Whether that's only possible to do before you get saved, or also possible to do after you get saved doesn't matter. Either way, it results in eternal damnation.

 

[farouk]

Only the sin of rejecting grace is the sin that can't be atoned for. Whether that's only possible to do before you get saved, or also possible to do after you get saved doesn't matter. Either way, it results in eternal damnation.

@Ferris Bueller The true child of God keeps crying 'Abba, Father', right? (Romans 8).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

+\

@Ferris Bueller The true child of God keeps crying 'Abba, Father', right? (Romans 8).

Instead of debating that dead end topic I think it more wise to talk about what the Bible says to do......

Hebrews 3:6
Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are His house, if we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope of which we boast.

 

[justbyfaith]

I think this verse is very important. It says that while we were dead in sin, God made us alive. God didn't wait for us to become "better " or more righteous on our own. No, He saved us in spite of ourselves and our sinful nature. If sinning after salvation would result in us becoming unsaved, why would God even bother with us in the first place, knowing our sinful proclivities?

If we have been made alive we will not continue in a lifestyle of sin. Therefore if we sin after it is that we think that we have been made alive, we ought to question as to whether we have been truly redeemed (see 2 Corinthians 13:5).

 

[kcnalp]

I used to be Legalist.....now I am a man who is “ Free in Christ”.... a man who knower TRUE Joy and Peace—- ALL of the time ....it is Wondrous !

When did this happen? A few days ago you were calling people "fool" and wishing they would burn in Hell fire.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

1 John 3:10
Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God

1 John 3:6
6No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning.

1 John 3:8
8The one who practices sin is of the devil

2 Corinthians 5:17
if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.

The person who is still living for their sin is not converted. They don't have 'nothing but the blood'. They have NOTHING. Remaining the old creation you've always been is the sign that you are not a new creation. Sinking in yet?

The only thing “ Sinking In” is that some people behave as if stupidity were a Virtue.......You just don’t
“ get it” and I don’t think you are “ capable” of getting it......you are not a stupid man, but some people have an intelligence that is limited and can't pick up on things that “ should” be obvious and “are” obvious to the astute......let me try to break this down as simply as I can.....
Sin? That is bad. Willful Sin? That is worse. I hate Sin. It hurts me .It hurts others.God no likey.I Believe the Gospel .That is what Saved me.That is what keeps me Saved. The Fact that I Believe in it is proven by the fact that I REST in It.If one is not RESTING in the Gospel , proven by the fact that they do not worry about their Salvation anymore, they are obeying God .God says that if you do not REST in His Gospel Of Grace you are Guilty of “Disobedience and UNBELIEF!” Serious accusations, huh?
I am getting a tad side-tracked here. Because of my Faith in Jesus Plus NOTHING, God has put His Spirit in me and that Spirit, given time, is constantly at work in me — TRANSFORMING me into the “ image of God's Son. ( people can “ change”...... only GOD can “ transform” ) when God Saved me and “ forgot” ALL of my Sins , He did something else at the same time—- He gave me a New Heart ......A Heart That Hates Sin and derives the same pleasure from Sinning as he does placing his hand in a fire ——Sinful things I used to without batting an eyelash now provide me only shame an d regret...
Just because I understand the Reality Of Willful Sin— even in the life of a Born -Again Christian—- that does NOT mean I endorse it ..
Back in a few........gonna go ahead and send this.... more to follow.....hang on to your wigs and keys...lol....please see post #129...

 

[justbyfaith]

Born again Christians cannot commit willful sin (Hebrews 10:26-31, 1 John 3:9, 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17)...

That is the bottom line.

 

[justbyfaith]

Rom 11:20, Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21, For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22, Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The only thing “ Sinking In” is that some people behave as if stupidity were a Virtue.......You just don’t
“ get it” and I don’t think you are “ capable” of getting it......you are not a stupid man, but some people have an intelligence that is limited and can't pick up on things that “ should” be obvious and “are” obvious to the astute......let me try to break this down as simply as I can.....
Sin? That is bad. Willful Sin? That is worse. I hate Sin. It hurts me .It hurts others.God no likey.I Believe the Gospel .That is what Saved me.That is what keeps me Saved. The Fact that I Believe in it is proven by the fact that I REST in It.If one is not RESTING in the Gospel , proven by the fact that they do not worry about their Salvation anymore, they are obeying God .God says that if you do not REST in His Gospel Of Grace you are Guilty of “Disobedience and UNBELIEF!” Serious accusations, huh?
I am getting a tad side-tracked here. Because of my Faith in Jesus Plus NOTHING, God has put His Spirit in me and that Spirit, given time, is constantly at work in me — TRANSFORMING me into the “ image of God's Son. ( people can “ change”...... only GOD can “ transform” ) when God Saved me and “ forgot” ALL of my Sins , He did something else at the same time—- He gave me a New Heart ......A Heart That Hates Sin and derives the same pleasure from Sinning as he does placing his hand in a fire ——Sinful things I used to without batting an eyelash now provide me only shame an d regret...
Just because I understand the Reality Of Willful Sin— even in the life of a Born -Again Christian—- that does NOT mean I endorse it ..
Back in a few........gonna go ahead and send this.... more to follow.....hang on to your wigs and keys...lol....

Here is the second part of my post....
I find it difficult to communicate with somebody so dense or blind or maybe just too proud to admit that there are a sinner.....one who lacks the “ insight” to see that “ Willful” sin is involved in many, many sins......I am NOT talking about a “ defiant” Sinning where a person would look up to Heaven and shake his fist at God and mock HIM to His Face and sin and DARE God to do something about it! I am talking about “ willful Sinning” where right before one sins, there is a little “ voice” in his head that whispers “ this is wrong....you know it is wrong.....don’t do it” , and you do it anyway , kinda hoping God will let you slide .Well, you ain’t gonna “ slide”. On the other hand—— you ain’t going to Hell because you were Foolish or weak and succumbed to Temptation ....Even James talked about the “ enticement Of sin” and we are in these weak earthen vessels and can give- in to our Old Adamic Nature.....
I agree with you when you say that “ someone Living for their Sins is not converted...to a large degree.....What makes you think a person that has the honesty and the brains to admit that they are still Sinners even though they are Saved by their Faith in Jesus is “ Living FOR Sin”...... it’s like saying I “ Live” for things that make me Miserable.....
At this time, and for the last time, I ask you to put on your thinking cap, if you have one and try to figure out what is common sense to most people.....ready?
What you don’t see is this—- The Love and Gratitude one has for God when you see that you are Totally Forgiven when you Trust in the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4 and the FINISHED work of the Cross ... does not lead to what you think it does....to think that God's Way to Save, Grace Plus Nothing , automatically leads to a life of debauchery says more about YOU than you realize!
To think that the Automatic “ Reset Button” Of those who understand Grace and LIVE it Is too act like they DON’T CARE about God and what He and His Son had to endure to bring it about is the height of ignorance! Think about it ! It’s human nature and God knows it—- when somebody goes out of their way to do something nice for you , the first human response is to want to do something nice for the other fellow.....
If you fell into a river and were “ this close” to drowning and about to go over a 100’ waterfall with a rocky bottom where a grizzly death were assured and somebody jumps in and rescues you , how much convincing and cajoling would it take to actually make you “ WANT” to do something good for the guy that Saved You...... the worst Scoundrel in the World would at least buy the guy that “ SAVED Him”... a box of cigars, don’t you think?
Do you finally “ Get It” yet? What God did did for me entailed MUCH more than jumping into a river....I was not headed for a mere “ waterfall” —— I was headed for Hell itself! A well- deserved Hell . God did not “ have” to save me , and I sure as heck did not Deserve it.He did it anyway. Because He Loved me .
The Automatic “ reset” button for my encounter with a Forgiving , Loving God was to try to live a life that was pleasing to Him.... NOT to try to find ways to “ get around and ignore Him”.
When one meets God and finally gets to “ know” Him you don’t “ live to sin” you Live to please the One to Whom you owe so much. Anything that STARTS in Sin when you have a New Heart , ends in SHAME . Any Sin done Willfully is ESPECIALLY Shameful—- that’s why I do my best to avoid them, but when I am stupid, weak or Foolish they “ DO” occur . Regrettably so. The Remedy is to accept your temporal Chastisement and never forget that we have an “ Advocate” at all times. He resides at the “Throne Of Grace”...... and as the Bible teaches , I approach that “ Throne” with BOLDNESS ! As ordered! God hates the Sin that caused you show up there —- but He delights in that” Boldness” That is a direct reflection of the Faith that you have in the Shed Blood . I have that Boldness .....how about you? And do I have to draw you a picture to show you that this not in any way, shape, or form an endorsement of sin ? It's merely the honest admission of a work in progress who still occasionally stumbles and has the insight , the brains and the humility to agree with Paul that we will not know “ perfection” until we make it to our Eternal Home . Paul had to lament the fact that even “ he” had not attained the level he wished that he had.....how about you? God bless.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I used to be Legalist.....now I am a man who is “ Free in Christ”.... a man who knower TRUE Joy and Peace—- ALL of the time ....it is Wondrous !

When did this happen? A few days ago you were calling people "fool" and wishing they would burn in Hell fire.


Two sublime examples of where I am like Jesus and Paul.....thanks for pointing these examples out....any similarities that I have with Jesus and/or PauL are rare indeed!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The only thing “ Sinking In” is that some people behave as if stupidity were a Virtue.......You just don’t
“ get it” and I don’t think you are “ capable” of getting it....

I think you're the one who is not getting it. What is it about 1 John 3:10 that you do not understand?

1 John 3:10
Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God

Who is this person John is talking about? They do not practice righteousness and are therefore not of God. Where does he fit in your theology? How is he different than you who purposely sins? You owe it to us to explain it since you are the one who is defending purposely sinning in the name of grace.

 

[Debp]

I think you're the one who is not getting it. What is it about 1 John 3:10 that you do not understand?

1 John 3:10
Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God

Who is this person John is talking about? They do not practice righteousness and are therefore not of God. Where does he fit in your theology? How is he different than you who purposely sins? You owe it to us to explain it since you are the one who is defending purposely sinning in the name of grace.

I haven't read the entire thread. But of what I have read, this is what I gathered from Blood Bought's posts early in the thread:

Blood Bought is saying that as a new creation in Christ, he doesn't have his old desire to sin. He isn't teaching purposely sinning. Rather he was trying to make a point....that although the grace of God covers our sins, we don't have that desire to sin as a born again child of God.

@Blood Bought 1953

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Born again Christians cannot commit willful sin (Hebrews 10:26-31, 1 John 3:9, 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17)...

That is the bottom line.

They shouldn’t, but they do....and “ when” they do, they are Covered by the Blood— That Blood they you severely under- rate ......

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I think you're the one who is not getting it. What is it about 1 John 3:10 that you do not understand?

1 John 3:10
Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God

Who is this person John is talking about? They do not practice righteousness and are therefore not of God. Where does he fit in your theology? How is he different than you who purposely sins? You owe it to us to explain it since you are the one who is defending purposely sinning in the name of grace.

I ‘ owe” you nothing, except perhaps a “ thank you “ for proving my point that you can’t “ get it “..... I also thank you for serving as an excellent “ springboard” for getting Truths out there for Newbies that will not get good teaching in their religious lodge meetings.....

 

[FollowHim]

I ‘ owe” you nothing, except perhaps a “ thank you “ for proving my point that you can’t “ get it “..... I also thank you for serving as an excellent “ springboard” for getting Truths out there for Newbies that will not get good teaching in their religious lodge meetings.....

I like you proposition. If you are free to behave as you desire, do you still follow the Lord and His way.

This question gets to the heart of Gods transformation of us and what is love alive in us. We desire to walk in the Lords ways because they have become our own through the Holy Spirit.

Shadrack, Meshac and Abednigo put it that God would save them, and even if He did not, they would never worship the emperor because only the Lord is worthy of worship.

The proposition also gets at the heart of legalism, an external system of behaviour which is hoped will deliver oneself into the Kingdom.
A heart change, means one is already in the Kingdom, which is reflected by the focus love and service.

I read an article about certain individuals who live empowered by anger, and disgust. Unfortunately they end up dictators and some desire to follow them with great vigour. The sad fact is, being part of the group is fine, full of complements and being the best, but walk outside and you are dirt. The key difference is loyalty to the leader, nothing else. Jesus pointed out this flawed morality, that we have to put the Lord and His ways above everything else, not because we are saved by this, but because this is literally the key to life.

We were doing a bible study of Moses and the Amalekites, where Moses arms had to be lifted up to the Lord. It reminded me of plugging in electricity with a wire and plug. The power does not flow unless one is physically plugged in.

Legalism attempts to run the heart without the power, but we have to be plugged in and alive to walk in love and the truth.
God bless you

 

[justbyfaith]

the brains and the humility to agree with Paul that we will not know “ perfection” until we make it to our Eternal Home .

We can have perfection before then through the one offering (Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), 1 John 3:9; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17, Colossians 2:11 (nlt))

They shouldn’t, but they do...

If they do, they haven't been born again (they haven't received the second benefit that we are told about in 2 Corinthians 1:15, 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14, 1 John 3:9). They may have been justified; because justification is by faith alone apart from any performance on your part; however, if a man is born again, it will affect his performance: and therefore if his performance is not up to par he ought to question whether he is born again (see 2 Corinthians 13:5).

 

[justbyfaith]

They shouldn’t, but they do....and “ when” they do, they are Covered by the Blood— That Blood they you severely under- rate ......

I also do not under-rate the blood...however you do.

I hold that the blood of Jesus not only justifies (as per Romans 5:9)...but is able to sanctify (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and cleanse us from all sin (1 John 1:7).

Do you?

Will the blood of Jesus, when applied, do one thing (justify) and not also do the other (sanctify and cleanse)?

Will it only perform one of its functions without performing all of its functions?

You have never answered this question, @Blood Bought 1953; and I think that it is about time that you answered it.

 

[justbyfaith]

They shouldn’t, but they do....and “ when” they do, they are Covered by the Blood— That Blood they you severely under- rate ......

If a man sins against the Lord, he definitely has an Advocate with the Father (1 John 2:1)...notice it doesn't say "when" but "if".

I know that for me, when I sinned willfully against the Lord, He chopped me down as a tree.

It was not until 30 years later that this stump scented water and began to bud again.

So then, restoration is possible; however if you sin willfully it may be 30 years before you can be restored back to what you had in Christ before you sinned willfully against Him...

I suppose that that is how His chastening works. He does with you what He knows will work in you the peaceable fruit of righteousness.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I find it difficult to communicate with somebody so dense or blind or maybe just too proud to admit that there are a sinner...

If you're talking about me I made it quite clear that I still sin. What I don't do is PURPOSELY sin. When I sin it's because I'm tired and not thinking, or I'm weak, or ignorant or blind, or something like that. I don't think I have ever sinned defiantly just because I wanted to.

..“ Willful” sin is involved in many, many sins......I am NOT talking about a “ defiant” Sinning where a person would look up to Heaven and shake his fist at God and mock HIM to His Face and sin and DARE God to do something about it! I am talking about “ willful Sinning”

Willful sinning IS defiant sinning. And it doesn't have to be as dramatic as you're making it out to be, lol. You know better not to do it. You have to power not to do it, but you do anyway. That's willfully sinning. It is rejecting the grace of God. It's insulting the Spirit of grace. It's showing contempt for the blood of the Covenant that sanctified you. The 'Christian' who is doing that has a serious disconnect between them and salvation. A very serious one.

...where right before one sins, there is a little “ voice” in his head that whispers “ this is wrong....you know it is wrong.....don’t do it” , and you do it anyway , kinda hoping God will let you slide .

I don't do that. By the time it's that far along I'm in the mind set of the Spirit and I don't do it. I couldn't in good conscience be at that point and then sin just for the sake of sinning. I sin because there is some work of the enemy, or my own flesh deceiving me into sinning. If those compulsions to sin are absent and I'm not sensing any compulsion to sin, I don't.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If a man sins against the Lord, he definitely has an Advocate with the Father (1 John 2:1)...notice it doesn't say "when" but "if".

I know that for me, when I sinned willfully against the Lord, He chopped me down as a tree.

It was not until 30 years later that this stump scented water and began to bud again.

So then, restoration is possible; however if you sin willfully it may be 30 years before you can be restored back to what you had in Christ before you sinned willfully against Him...

I suppose that that is how His chastening works. He does with you what He knows will work in you the peaceable fruit of righteousness.

I think the Lord takes the maturity of the person willfully sinning into consideration as to how he handles it and what outcome he allows to come from it.