Another question for mormons.

[justbyfaith]

@Jane_Doe22. @Grailhunter,

The book of mormon is said to be "another testament of Jesus Christ".

Now, I have not finished reading through the book of mormon so I do not have all of the information in it; but I have this question:

In Hebrews 9 it is written,

Heb 9:16, For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17, For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

My question is, who died to produce this third testament of Jesus Christ and when?

Did Jesus die a second time?

This would appear to me to be an irreconcilable contradiction between the Bible and the book of mormon; for it is written,

Rom 6:9, Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

If Christ died a second time then this scripture has been broken and we cannot trust any of the scriptures that are given to us.

However, Jesus testified that the scriptures cannot be broken (John 10:35)

If He did not die a second time then there cannot be another testament of Jesus Christ, per Hebrews 9:16-17.

 

[justbyfaith]

Please remember what is written,

1Pe 3:15, But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
1Pe 3:16, Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

 

[Grailhunter]

@Jane_Doe22. @Grailhunter,

The book of mormon is said to be "another testament of Jesus Christ".

Now, I have not finished reading through the book of mormon so I do not have all of the information in it; but I have this question:

In Hebrews 9 it is written,

Heb 9:16, For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17, For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

My question is, who died to produce this third testament of Jesus Christ and when?

Did Jesus die a second time?

This would appear to me to be an irreconcilable contradiction between the Bible and the book of mormon; for it is written,

Rom 6:9, Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

If Christ died a second time then this scripture has been broken and we cannot trust any of the scriptures that are given to us.

However, Jesus testified that the scriptures cannot be broken (John 10:35)

If He did not die a second time then there cannot be another testament of Jesus Christ, per Hebrews 9:16-17.

The Bible we have is a collection of 1st century writings that Emperor Constantine commanded be bound in the first books we call Bibles....the 50 Bibles of Constantine. circa 330 AD....give or take

These writings are an abbreviated account of the first 65 years of Christianity...give or take.

The historical lineage of Constantine develops into the Roman Catholic Church and stands as the oldest Christian denomination.

On October 31st 1517 Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses on the door of the Scsskirche, a Catholic castle church in Wittenberg, Germany, which served notice to the Catholic Church of his 95 objections to the Church. And the Protestants were on their way to redefining the Christian religion...from that perspective. But they could not agree so they ended up with over 30,000 perspectives and millions of independent Protestant perspectives.

In the spring of 1820 Joseph Smith had a vision while praying in a wooded area in Manchester, New York, called the Sacred Grove by Latter-day Saints. While praying, he is said to have seen a "pillar of light" and two images — identified as God and Jesus Christ — who told him that his sins were forgiven and that all churches were false.

Now as far as strict compliance to the Bible it can run from one end to the other. Some say any Christian religion that does not call itself "The Way" is a false religion. Some say that the Catholic religion is the only true Church. Some subscribe to the multitude of Protestant types of religions. Of course the Mormons are going to say their religion and book was given to them by...more or less God and Christ. If you are a fundamentalist, nothing outside the Bible can be believed. If you are a cessationist, then additional information would be impossible because they believe God retired after the Bible and gave no further information or instruction.

For me I have an open mind to such things...multi-denominational. Christ never said, "See ya in 10,000 years!" But for the next 10,000 years fundamentalists will believe His return will be soon. Regardless when Christ's return will be or how long it has been...I think everyday and every minute God is speaking to people and some of it can be new information or from a different perspective. And these words that God speaks to people, are not always in line with what men wrote in the Bible. As far as I can see, most everyone in the Bible believed they were living in the last days.... months... years...centuries and millenniums were not what they understood.

 

[justbyfaith]

Who died and when in order to produce another testament, @Grailhunter?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

The Bible we have is a collection of 1st century writings that Emperor Constantine commanded be bound in the first books we call Bibles....the 50 Bibles of Constantine. circa 330 AD....give or take

These writings are an abbreviated account of the first 65 years of Christianity...give or take.

The historical lineage of Constantine develops into the Roman Catholic Church and stands as the oldest Christian denomination.

On October 31st 1517 Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses on the door of the Scsskirche, a Catholic castle church in Wittenberg, Germany, which served notice to the Catholic Church of his 95 objections to the Church. And the Protestants were on their way to redefining the Christian religion...from that perspective. But they could not agree so they ended up with over 30,000 perspectives and millions of independent Protestant perspectives.

In the spring of 1820 Joseph Smith had a vision while praying in a wooded area in Manchester, New York, called the Sacred Grove by Latter-day Saints. While praying, he is said to have seen a "pillar of light" and two images — identified as God and Jesus Christ — who told him that his sins were forgiven and that all churches were false.

Now as far as strict compliance to the Bible it can run from one end to the other. Some say any Christian religion that does not call itself "The Way" is a false religion. Some say that the Catholic religion is the only true Church. Some subscribe to the multitude of Protestant types of religions. Of course the Mormons are going to say their religion and book was given to them by...more or less God and Christ. If you are a fundamentalist, nothing outside the Bible can be believed. If you are a cessationist, then additional information would be impossible because they believe God retired after the Bible and gave no further information or instruction.

For me I have an open mind to such things...multi-denominational. Christ never said, "See ya in 10,000 years!" But for the next 10,000 years fundamentalists will believe His return will be soon. Regardless when Christ's return will be or how long it has been...I think everyday and every minute God is speaking to people and some of it can be new information or from a different perspective. And these words that God speaks to people, are not always in line with what men wrote in the Bible. As far as I can see, most everyone in the Bible believed they were living in the last days.... months... years...centuries and millenniums were not what they understood.

You're verbose as always @Grailhunter ;) .

 

[Grailhunter]

You're verbose as always @Grailhunter ;) .

lol I do not have a question. I was responding to JBF. You take a stab at it.

 

[Grailhunter]

Who died and when in order to produce another testament, @Grailhunter?

What do you think a testament is?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

@Jane_Doe22. @Grailhunter,

The book of mormon is said to be "another testament of Jesus Christ".

Now, I have not finished reading through the book of mormon so I do not have all of the information in it; but I have this question:

In Hebrews 9 it is written,

Heb 9:16, For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17, For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

My question is, who died to produce this third testament of Jesus Christ and when?

Did Jesus die a second time?

This would appear to me to be an irreconcilable contradiction between the Bible and the book of mormon; for it is written,

Rom 6:9, Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

If Christ died a second time then this scripture has been broken and we cannot trust any of the scriptures that are given to us.

However, Jesus testified that the scriptures cannot be broken (John 10:35)

If He did not die a second time then there cannot be another testament of Jesus Christ, per Hebrews 9:16-17.

Justbyfaith: I've literally answered this question for you before.

"Testament" used here is akin to "testimony", being derived from that word. The Book of Mormon stands as another testimony of Christ: voices adding to the choir that He is the Almighty Son of God.

It doesn't replace any part of the Bible. It's not about somebody dying again. Your question is flawed in it's very premise.

Now for the sake of your limited mental health, I do suggest you leaving this subject be. I also won't be engaging anything in-depth with you here because of how this does cause your mental illness to flair up so dramatically. You having a breakdown isn't go for you or anyone else.

 

[justbyfaith]

What do you think a testament is?

You first.

 

[justbyfaith]

Justbyfaith: I've literally answered this question for you before.

"Testament" used here is akin to "testimony", being derived from that word. The Book of Mormon stands as another testimony of Christ: voices adding to the choir that He is the Almighty Son of God.

It doesn't replace any part of the Bible. It's not about somebody dying again. Your question is flawed in it's very premise.

Now for the sake of your limited mental health, I do suggest you leaving this subject be. I also won't be engaging anything in-depth with you here because of how this does cause your mental illness to flair up so dramatically. You having a breakdown isn't go for you or anyone else.

I'm taking my meds and rarely have a flare-up when on my meds. I believe you should also consider what it says in Hosea 9:7 and 2 Corinthians 5:13.

I do also consider your mentioning of my illness to be an ad hominem attack. My illness is indeed given to me as a thorn in my flesh to keep me from being exalted above measure (2 Corinthians 12:7-9). But God has chosen the base and foolish things of the world to confound the wise (1 Corinthians 1:18-29).

The reality is that the book of mormon does not claim to be another "testimony" it claims to be another "testament".

There is a definite difference in the meaning of these words.

And I believe that you do not want to give an answer, not to preserve my mental health; but because you do not have an answer.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I'm taking my meds and rarely have a flare-up when on my meds. I believe you should also consider what it says in Hosea 9:7 and 2 Corinthians 5:13.

I do also consider your mentioning of my illness to be an ad hominem attack. My illness is indeed given to me as a thorn in my flesh to keep me from being exalted above measure (2 Corinthians 12:7-9). But God has chosen the base and foolish things of the world to confound the wise (1 Corinthians 1:18-29).

The reality is that the book of mormon does not claim to be another "testimony" it claims to be another "testament".

There is a definite difference in the meaning of these words.

And I believe that you do not want to give an answer, not to preserve my mental health; but because you do not have an answer.

justbyfaith: your mental illness has resulted in you having massive mental breakdown when discussing theology with me. On many different instances. Ones wherein you have trembled & doubted your faith and even openly thought about becoming an atheist. I don't want to have you go through that yet again. Addressing your endless strawman arguements is not worth that for you or me.

Have a nice day and may God continue to bless you this Thanksgiving season.

 

[justbyfaith]

justbyfaith: your mental illness has resulted in you having massive mental breakdown when discussing theology with me. On many different instances. Ones wherein you have trembled & doubted your faith and even openly thought about becoming an atheist. I don't want to have you go through that yet again. Addressing your endless strawman arguements is not worth that for you or me.

Have a nice day and may God continue to bless you this Thanksgiving season.

You consider that I was having a mental breakdown because I nearly converted to mormonism right in front of you. What does that say about your view of the insanity of your pov as a mormon?

Thankfully, I was having a breakdown and when I got better, I returned to the sane pov that mormonism is a false religion.

 

[Grailhunter]

You first.

God love ya! You funny.
The Hebrew term for covenant is berit, meaning “to bond or fetter.” It is translated into Greek as syntheke, “binding together” or diatheke, “will, testament.” In the Bible, then, a covenant is a relationship based upon mutual commitments. It typically involves promises, obligations, and rituals .

New Testament,most see it as a New Covenant

But then there are those that would see it as a testament to God...or a continued writings of God.

The phrase Old or New Testament does not occur in the Bible...The first Bibles did not include the Hebrew Bible, years later when the Hebrew Bible was included there was a need to differentiate between the two groups of books so the terms Old and New Testament started out as slang or off the cuff in various correspondences, even before the books were bound.

 

[justbyfaith]

justbyfaith: your mental illness has resulted in you having massive mental breakdown when discussing theology with me. On many different instances. Ones wherein you have trembled & doubted your faith and even openly thought about becoming an atheist. I don't want to have you go through that yet again. Addressing your endless strawman arguements is not worth that for you or me.

Have a nice day and may God continue to bless you this Thanksgiving season.

Yes, the idea that the Holy Spirit might lead anyone to become a murderer does in fact lend to the concept of atheism. And such an idea is found in the beginning pages of the book of mormon; and you sought to defend it by showing where that concept also appears to be in the Bible. But in the Bible instance, the Lord was instituting divine justice against the Amalekites who had sought to take down the weakest of the children of Israel as they were lagging behind in the camp.

 

[Helen]

justbyfaith: your mental illness has resulted in you having massive mental breakdown when discussing theology with me. On many different instances. Ones wherein you have trembled & doubted your faith and even openly thought about becoming an atheist. I don't want to have you go through that yet again. Addressing your endless strawman arguements is not worth that for you or me.

Have a nice day and may God continue to bless you this Thanksgiving season.

Well said my friend .

 

[Triumph1300]

And these words that God speaks to people, are not always in line with what men wrote in the Bible.

Well, shouldn't that raise a red flag as a warning sign??

 

[ChristisGod]

I'm taking my meds and rarely have a flare-up when on my meds. I believe you should also consider what it says in Hosea 9:7 and 2 Corinthians 5:13.

I do also consider your mentioning of my illness to be an ad hominem attack. My illness is indeed given to me as a thorn in my flesh to keep me from being exalted above measure (2 Corinthians 12:7-9). But God has chosen the base and foolish things of the world to confound the wise (1 Corinthians 1:18-29).

The reality is that the book of mormon does not claim to be another "testimony" it claims to be another "testament".

There is a definite difference in the meaning of these words.

And I believe that you do not want to give an answer, not to preserve my mental health; but because you do not have an answer.

Contradicting yourself once again. You said previously ALL SICKNESS, DISEASE, ILLNESS was covered by Isaiah 53:5 and only ones sin and lack of faith is what prevents one from being healed.

So now you try and make an exception to your own rule. Sorry it doesn't fly.

That is the problem with those who have bought into SATANS lie from the word of faith false teachers with Isaiah 53:5.

And this will be my last direct comment to you as well as you have an unteachable spirit like your female counterpart who both are self proclaimed teachers.

A God gifted teacher is a learner by definition and both of you refuse to listen to anyone unless they agree with you and give no one any grace who disagrees with your position on any topic on these forums.

hope this helps !!!

 

[justbyfaith]

The very premise of mormonism, that there is another "testament" of Jesus Christ, is refuted by the OP.

If you (@Jane_Doe22) cannot deal with the argument that is presented in the OP, just say so.

I believe that it is one more reason why you ought to reject your false idea of who Jesus is that is given to you through mormon doctrine.

 

[justbyfaith]

Contradicting yourself once again. You said previously ALL SICKNESS, DISEASE, ILLNESS was covered by Isaiah 53:5 and only ones sin and lack of faith is what prevents one from being healed.

So now you try and make an exception to your own rule. Sorry it doesn't fly.

That is the problem with those who have bought into SATANS lie from the word of faith false teachers with Isaiah 53:5.

And this will be my last direct comment to you as well as you have an unteachable spirit like your female counterpart who both are self proclaimed teachers.

A God gifted teacher is a learner by definition and both of you refuse to listen to anyone unless they agree with you and give no one any grace who disagrees with your position on any topic on these forums.

hope this helps !!!

It doesn't "help".

I have said that healing is provided for in the atonement; but that this does not preclude that such healing cannot be brought about with the use of medicine.

You appear to be so intent on attacking me that you have forgotten my testimony.

Gal 4:28, Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29, But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 

[justbyfaith]

PS @Christophany,

Are you a closet mormon?