I understand all these things, yet they are all the works of God. Perhaps it's just a matter of the nature of progressive revelation. The miraculous signs that Jesus performed were works described in the OT as works of God, the works described as those of the Holy Spirit in the New Testament are also the works ascribed to God in the Old Testament. I have no problem seeing the Holy Spirit as God, Jesus as God, and the father as God. The trouble I have, given that they share the attributes of One God, is with seeing them as different in any way other than function. What actually makes the persons of the trinity unique other than their "function" or purpose in redemptive history and the use of personal pronouns?
The Trinity definition
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jaybird
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i do my best but do not follow that example perfect, i make mistakes and ask for forgiveness like it was always done. what i dont do is teach against the law, Jesus said not to do that.
jaybird
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i dont try to teach people to do anything, people need to think for themselves.
Since they share all the same divine attributes they only differ in role or function like you pointed out. Sort of like in a marriage where we are equal as humans/persons but different in our roles in the family unit. The wife submits to the husband and the Son does with the Father in the Trinity and the Holy Spirit does with both the Father and the Son.
hope this helps !!!
Pretty much the way I see it. The Lord established order in the universe and that should be a reflection of His character, so why not of His being.
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Ok fine, but you should understand that scripture says that the carnal mind can not receive the things of the Spirit. This basically says that no amount of thinking will ever reveal spiritual truth to a carnal mind. So, there's another reason why we must be born again.
jaybird
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nothing against Paul but you guys spend so much time reading Paul you forget Jesus. this is how people get way out there with those oddball teachings, women cant speak in a church, we have to speak in an "angel" language for the Most High to hear us, the law is abolished, and faith only. outside of Paul you will not find these teachings in scripture, no two witnesses. and this is what Peter means when he says Pauls teachings can be confusing, and some go as far to twist them. we know Jesus didnt teach these things.
Amen to that and the disciples themselves did not understand numerous things Jesus taught until after Pentecost.
the disciples did not have the SEAL of the Holy Spirit until Pentecost
Ephesians 1
When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
If you have not the Spirit you are none of His.
Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man has not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
1 Corinthians 2
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.
the disciples did not understand so many things prior to Pentecost as Jesus promised He would bring to remembrance the things He had taught them.
John 15:26
“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me. 27 And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.
John 16:7
But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.
John 16:13-14
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14 He will glorify me because it is from me that he will receive what he will make known to you.
John 16:17-18
At this, some of his disciples said to one another, “What does he mean by saying, ‘In a little while you will see me no more, and then after a little while you will see me,’ and ‘Because I am going to the Father’?” 18 They kept asking, “What does he mean by ‘a little while’? We don’t understand what he is saying.”
Jesus had told them NUMEROUS times about His passion yet they did not understand this until the Spirit was in them. Once again proving 1 Corinthians 2 the natural man cannot understand the things of the Spirit.
Matthew 16:8-11
Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread?
Its an interesting study and there are many other passages where we see the disciples did not understand many of Jesus teachings until after Pentecost.
hope this helps!!!
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So we get down to the truth at last. You reject scripture that doesn't conform to your misunderstanding of it. You must be born again. Paul taught about it, but Jesus said it first and without being born again you will never understand the scriptures, but that's already been said. Have a nice life.
FYI, Jesus didn't have to teach that women weren't allowed to speak in the church, because it was already established among the Jews that He spoke to. Women were not allowed in the inner court of the temple, couldn't be priests and only priests could enter the temple. And women were not allowed into the synagogues in those days, but fathers or husbands were supposed to teach them how to obey the law. They couldn't even make a vow without the approval of father or husband (depending upon marital status.)
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jaybird
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this is the part that is really amusing. Jesus says the law is not abolished, i agree with Jesus. however you reject this teaching of Jesus, you reject the law given by the Father, the one that sent Jesus. and if thats not enough, after rejecting the teachings of Christ and the Father, you accuse those that follow Jesus of . . . . .rejecting Jesus????
how do you expect anyone take you serious?
All born again Christians do tend to take me seriously. The churches that I've served in and even taught in took me seriously as well. Those who love Christ and the truth also tend to take me seriously. It's only the cults that have a problem with the truth.
I guess that you have a really serious reading comprehension problem, but no where in these posts, or on any Christian or non Christian forum, or in a pulpit, or in any casual conversation have I or any born again Christian that I know, ever said that the law of Moses was abolished. I was trying to avoid using the label liar to describe you, but you are very consistently lying and trying to place words in my mouth as well as in the mouths of other saints. Perhaps you just need a dictionary, a thesaurus, a concordance, and an accurate translation of the bible, but you are intentionally and willfully lying about the saints and denying the word of God. You have placed yourself under one of the most serious curses in scripture, found in the book of Zechariah, and referred to as the curse of the flying scroll. If you own a home, I would seriously recommend that you purchase full coverage for fires on all of your property. God is not mocked, nor has one of His words fallen to the ground, and you are most certainly putting your life in jeopardy just to support your pride. I'll be praying for your repentance and restoration, but ultimately now, your fate is in your own hands.
jaybird
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i dont see how when you you teach makes so little sense. Jesus followed the law, you say not to do that, just like alister crowley.
what truth? truth and right and wrong are two different things. Luciferians teach Lucifer abolished the law, this is truth, does that mean we should follow it?
when you teach people terms like "faith only" "we are not under the law" or whatever else you want to call it, that is teaching against the law, that is teaching the law is ablished, that is following in the footsteps of crowley and all other dark occult.
"the law of Moses is NOT abolished!" "we are not under the law" this sounds like a corrupt politician telling the masses what ever they want to hear
Nevertheless, the Bible teaches that sin shall not have dominion over us because we are not under the law but under grace (Romans 6:14)...
Maybe crowley and his cohorts were attempting to utilize some reverse psychology in what they were preaching.
Maybe crowley and his cohorts were attempting to utilize some reverse psychology in what they were preaching.
Brakelite
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So before the incarnation there were three co equal co eternal members of the Godhead ... How did they decide which one was going to play the role of son, which one the Father, which one Spirit? Toss a coin?
Seriously. They are only role playing? Like a show? A metaphor?
So, according to the modem church in order to accomplish the plan of salvation and to enable man to better understand the issues involved, the members of the deity took certain positions? Questions....
Where in scripture is there any suggestion of such a role playing concept being enacted by God?
When the Bible says that God gave His only begotten Son, what reason is there not to believe that God actually had a literal preincarnate Son to give?
If Jesus is the literal Son of His Father and Through whom the Father created all things as scripture reveals, why is His divinity questioned?
Why is a concept which arose in the 4th century considered a better means by which to ascribe divinity to Christ than the plain concise declaration of Peter, "thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God?".
Why is it necessary to make the Father and the Son of equal ages (if you believe in a preincarnate Son) in order to fully establish the divinity of Jesus particularly in the light of Colossians 2:9?
And finally, why can we not simply accept the Bible testimony regarding the one true God, instead of denying, reasoning, and teaching something contrary?
KJV 1 Corinthians 8:6
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
KJV John 17:3
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
KJV Ephesians 4:6
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
KJV 1 Corinthians 11:3
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
KJV Ephesians 1:15-17
15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
16 Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
To quote a late 19th century scholar and historian...
"There were some very early that turned the doctrine of the Trinity into tri- theism, and instead of three Divine persons, brought in three collateral, coordinate, and self originated beings, making them 3 absolute and independent principles... Which is the most proper notion of 3 gods.
There has always been the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The 3 Divine Persons of the Godhead are Eternal and Immutable.
hope this helps !!!
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