Does 1 Corinthians 11:7-9 disturb you?

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Michiah-Imla

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I think if you research the epistles of Paul you'll see that he said, I not the Lord.... when sharing his personal opinion

Nevertheless, Paul spake by the Spirit of God. He was an inspired writer. All his words are profitable for doctrine.

1 Corinthians 7:6 KJV
[6] But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

But...

1 Corinthians 7:40 KJV
[40] ...she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.
 
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Michiah-Imla

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Women were also what today we'd call Christian pastors in the NT times.

It’s best to stick with the sound doctrine in the Bible regarding the behavior of women and not venture into the leavened words of man.

Woman was created from the man’s rib to be a suitable help for him (Genesis 2:18). God told Eve that Adam was to rule over her (Genesis 3:16). Women addressed their husbands, fathers, and men as “lord” (Genesis 18:12; Genesis 24:15-18; Genesis 31:34-35; Judges 4:18; Judges 19:26-27; Ruth 2:8; Ruth 2:13; 1 Samuel 1:15-17; 1 Samuel 1:26; 1 Samuel 25:23-31; 1 Samuel 25:40-41; 1 Kings 1:16-17; 2 Kings 4:16; 2 Kings 4:28).

Peter referencing Sarah as a woman who called her husband “lord” in the New Testament (1 Peter 3:5-6).

Women should keep silent in the churches (1 Corinthians 14:34-35; 1 Timothy 2:11) and not teach or usurp authority over the man (2 Timothy 2:12).

As long as the woman is conducting herself according to these standards, she shall have praise like Phebe and other women (Romans 16:1; Philippians 4:3).
 
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quietthinker

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It’s best to stick with the sound doctrine in the Bible regarding the behavior of women and not venture into the leavened words of man.

Woman was created from the man’s rib to be a suitable help for him (Genesis 2:18). God told Eve that Adam was to rule over her (Genesis 3:16). Women addressed their husbands, fathers, and men as “lord” (Genesis 18:12; Genesis 24:15-18; Genesis 31:34-35; Judges 4:18; Judges 19:26-27; Ruth 2:8; Ruth 2:13; 1 Samuel 1:15-17; 1 Samuel 1:26; 1 Samuel 25:23-31; 1 Samuel 25:40-41; 1 Kings 1:16-17; 2 Kings 4:16; 2 Kings 4:28).

Peter referencing Sarah as a woman who called her husband “lord” in the New Testament (1 Peter 3:5-6).

Women should keep silent in the churches (1 Corinthians 14:34-35; 1 Timothy 2:11) and not teach or usurp authority over the man (2 Timothy 2:12).

As long as the woman is conducting herself according to these standards, she shall have praise like Phebe and other women (Romans 16:1; Philippians 4:3).
one can 'dominate' with scripture as well......pull the 'spiritual' card. It is equally oppressive!
 
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Michiah-Imla

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one can 'dominate' with scripture as well......pull the 'spiritual' card. It is equally oppressive!

It’s only oppressive if you don’t want to do what scripture tells you to do.

1 John 5:2-3 KJVS
[2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. [3] For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

But:

John 14:24 KJVS
[24] He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Micah 2:6-7 KJVS
[6] Prophesy ye not, say they to them that prophesy: they shall not prophesy to them, that they shall not take shame. [7] O thou that art named the house of Jacob... do not my words do good to him that walketh uprightly?
 
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charity

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I find no issue with these texts but I can imagine that if either gender wants to dominate they would have an issue.
Hello @quietthinker

The mind of the flesh will always rebel against such teaching. I know the strength of my own flesh in these matters, and have a long retrospective view to judge my actions, and know their outcome. It is only God's mercy and grace which has prevailed, for in my flesh there is no good thing.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

Pearl

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Every marriage is different. Each couple have a unique relationship - even Christian couples. The ideal is to live in harmony with each other, love each other, respect each other, want the best for each other and serve each other. How two people work that out is their business. I know there are couple who should never be together or couples that are abusive to each other but it isn't those I'm talking about here. The ones I am talking about are the ones that care for each other.
 

marksman

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Women were also what today we'd call Christian pastors in the NT times. Paul gave accolades to those whom he knew and worked with as well.

The Role of Women in the Bible
[sic]"...
Women’s rights in New Testament times
The social condition of women in the first century had been radically altered from that of their ancient sisters. By the time of Jesus, the role of women had drastically changed for the worse. In theory, women were held in high regard by first-century Jewish society, but in practice, this was not always true. The concept of tzenuah, or the private role of the woman, was based on Psalm 45:13: “All glorious is the princess in her chamber.” While a man’s primary responsibility was seen as public, a woman’s life was confined almost entirely within the private family sphere.

Women were not allowed to testify in court. In effect, this categorized them with Gentiles, minors, deaf-mutes, and “undesirables” such as gamblers, the insane, usurers, and pigeon-racers, who were also denied that privilege. (On the other hand, a king could not bear witness in court, nor could the Messiah, which somewhat lessens the stigma of that restriction.)

Customarily, even a woman of stature could not engage in commerce and would rarely be seen outside her home. Only a woman in dire economic straits, who was forced to become the family breadwinner, could engage in her own small trade. If a woman was ever in the streets, she was to be heavily veiled and was prohibited from conversing with men. “It is the way of a woman to stay at home and it is the way of a man to go out into the marketplace” (Bereshit Rabbah 18:1; cf. Taanit 23b).

In Talmudic times, respectable women were expected to stay within the confines of the home. The terminology for a prostitute was “one who goes abroad.” The woman of the first century did not even do her own shopping, except possibly to go out, accompanied by a slave, to buy material which she would use to construct her own clothing at home!

The women recounted in the New Testament were very likely illiterate, since the rabbis did not consider it incumbent upon women to learn to read in order to study the Scriptures. Based on the passage in Deuteronomy 4:9 (King James Version), “teach them to thy sons,” the rabbis declared women to be exempt from the commandment to learn the Law of Moses. Indeed, the Talmud says, “It is foolishness to teach Torah to your daughter” (Sotah 20a).

Women were separated from men in private, public, and religious life.
Women were separated from men in private, public, and religious life. They could go to the Temple, but could not venture beyond the confines of the Women’s Court (there was no such court found in the original descriptions of Solomon’s Temple, so we know it was added later). Women were not allowed to participate in public prayer at the Temple, although they were encouraged to have private prayer lives at home.

The few rights of a woman included her right to go to the House of Study to hear a sermon or pray (Vayikra Rabbah, Sotah 22a). Also, it was her basic right to attend a wedding feast, a house of mourning, or visit her relatives (Mishnah Ketubot 7:5).

One Talmudic passage perhaps best sums up the situation of women in the first century: “(They are) swathed like a mourner (referring to the face and hair coverings) isolated from people and shut up in prison” (Eruvin 100b).

What brought about this drastic change from the esteem women had in the times of the Hebrew Scriptures to their near exclusion from society by the era of the New Testament? Very likely, this degraded view of a woman’s role was imported from Greek thought. The similarities between the Hellenistic and Talmudic views of women are remarkable. Through the influence of their heathen neighbors, the rabbis slowly relegated women to their first-century seclusion.

Jesus was a revolutionary in his regard for women
Jesus elicited surprising reactions from his contemporaries in all facets of life. He was not afraid to challenge the status quo and reexamine the traditional ways Scripture had been interpreted. But without a knowledge of the rabbinic attitudes that prevailed in Jesus’ day, the uniqueness of his behavior escapes us.

By publicly including women in his ministry, Jesus shattered the prejudicial customs of his day. Why was it unusual for Jesus to speak with women? Nothing in the Mosaic Law prevented men and women from conversing with one another! Yet the society of Jesus’ day, with custom dictated by rabbinic Judaism, differed strikingly from the Old Testament social order.

Jesus shattered this darkness by offering his teachings freely to anyone who would listen—whether they were women or men!
Jesus shattered this darkness by offering his teachings freely to anyone who would listen—whether they were women or men! We see him directly talking with women on numerous occasions. The woman at the well is perhaps the best known of these. We sense the astounded reactions of the disciples when their teacher was seen talking with a woman. “They marveled that he was talking with a woman, but no one said, ‘What do you seek?’ or, ‘Why are you talking with her?’” (John 4:27).

Another paradigm-breaking moment is found in the story of Jesus and his disciples at the home of the sisters Mary and Martha (Luke 10:38). Mary, mesmerized by Jesus’ teaching, is caught by her sister Martha sitting and listening to Jesus’ teaching with the male disciples. This could have been quite a social embarrassment to the family. The role of women was to serve the family and support the education of the men, and Martha becomes very angry at Rabbi Jesus for not enforcing the norms by telling Mary to go help. But Jesus passionately defends Mary’s choice to sit and listen. In doing so, he counter-culturally affirms women’s roles as fully fledged disciples and implicitly invites Martha to join her sister among the disciples.

In several other places in Luke’s gospel, we see Jesus publicly associating with women. Some were women of high standing in society, some were women of ill repute, and some even had been possessed by demons. One of these—Mary Magdalene, who in great thankfulness was with him until the moment he died—was the first person to whom he appeared after his resurrection.

In Matthew 15:22–28, Jesus spoke with a Canaanite woman. The disciples urged him to send her away for it was improper for a teacher to speak with a woman, and a foreign one at that! At first, Jesus did not answer her plea for help. But, as she prevailed upon him with her great need and even greater faith, he had mercy on her and granted her request.

The first proclaimer of Jesus as the Messiah of Israel was a woman.... It was women who were with him at his execution...and women who were the first to proclaim his resurrection.
Time after time in the eyewitness accounts of Jesus’ life, we see him offering his teachings, healing, and forgiveness to women as well as men. Often, it was the women who were the most appreciative of his work and teaching. Indeed, the first proclaimer of Jesus as the Messiah of Israel was a woman: Anna in the Temple (Luke 2:36–38). A woman washed Jesus’ feet (Luke 7:37–38) and anointed him for his burial (Mark 14:3). It was women who were with him at his execution until the end (Mark 15:47), and women who were the first to come to the tomb (John 20:1) and proclaim his resurrection (Matthew 28:8).

Jesus’ early followers continued to follow in his footsteps, including women in their gatherings (Acts 1:14) and counting them as fellow workers in the cause of sharing his message (Romans 16:3). It was only fitting that Jesus the Messiah, in his love, shattered the restricted status of women in the times in which he lived. Because of him, all individuals, Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female, can be one and enjoy unequaled freedom as children of God.



This article was adapted from an article by Zhava Glaser published in 1988.[end of excerpt]
Very informative and very welcome.
 
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WaterSong

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It’s best to stick with the sound doctrine in the Bible regarding the behavior of women and not venture into the leavened words of man.

Woman was created from the man’s rib to be a suitable help for him (Genesis 2:18). God told Eve that Adam was to rule over her (Genesis 3:16). Women addressed their husbands, fathers, and men as “lord” (Genesis 18:12; Genesis 24:15-18; Genesis 31:34-35; Judges 4:18; Judges 19:26-27; Ruth 2:8; Ruth 2:13; 1 Samuel 1:15-17; 1 Samuel 1:26; 1 Samuel 25:23-31; 1 Samuel 25:40-41; 1 Kings 1:16-17; 2 Kings 4:16; 2 Kings 4:28).

Peter referencing Sarah as a woman who called her husband “lord” in the New Testament (1 Peter 3:5-6).

Women should keep silent in the churches (1 Corinthians 14:34-35; 1 Timothy 2:11) and not teach or usurp authority over the man (2 Timothy 2:12).

As long as the woman is conducting herself according to these standards, she shall have praise like Phebe and other women (Romans 16:1; Philippians 4:3).
That 1 Corinthians verse in particular is so wrongly understood.
If it were true women should remain silent in church there wouldn't be a woman today active in the church. But they are.
There wouldn't have been women active in the church and as such praised by Paul for their service in delivering the Gospel right beside him, but there are.

1 Corinthians verse is speaking about understanding of the scriptures or sermon being delivered on the day. The congregations in the Pauline churches were very often kept separated by sex. Men on one side, women on the other and this to avoid distraction by one another for whatever cause.
Therefore, if the women attending didn't understand something they were being told to wait until they were able to rightly approach someone for council and understanding. At home, from their husbands. As if they'd know the answer. If not, they were to go to their "pastor". Not a term used in those days most likely, but still.

If women were to remain quiet in church, no women would attend and sing hymns.
QUIET! Paul said so.
No, that's not what he meant. If he did, he violated his own edict having women speak in church and right beside him as they brought the Gospel.
 
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