The church at a crossroads....

[Gideons300]

KJV Revelation 3:15-19
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

My only hope is to die. I can't do it myself. I can't bury myself. And I can't raise myself from the dead. Just like in baptism I need others to lay me down and raise me... Praise God I am dead in Christ and in Him I have a new life. That is my hope for without Him I am nothing...I can do nothing. Calvary. Jesus. The Lamb slain. The blood. There is my hope. There is my salvation. So long as I trust in that, God will make my life something He can approve of. Accept. Receive as His own creation. His work. His life. His righteousness. His glory. The image of His Son.
"What else can the Lord of the vineyard do that He hasn't already done"?

Indeed, that is the only hope for all of us, dear brother. Why? The strength of sin is the law.... i.e. self-effort.... and the law has rightful authority over us as long as we live.

But praise God, we who are His died with Him. The old us is dead, not needing to die. However, and this is key, until we stand by faith on this truth, and reckon it so, we give satan an avenue to continue to keep us bound and by continuing to encourage us to believe the lie that we can never cease from willful sin, he has robbed us of our victory and the joy of our salvation.

In these last days, we are even now being awakened to the deep truth of our actually having been born again as new creatures, and when satan comes tempting us, we will resist him steadfast in the faith, knowing he has no more authority over us.

This is the avenue, the only avenue that allows us to count it all joy when we fall into diverse temptations, for we KNOW that our God will not only make a way of escape that we might bear it, He also promises that He will cause us to take that way of escape. Glory!

We have the oil. Now.... let us light it with shouts of reckoning faith.

blessings,

Gids

 

[Pearl]

Can you explain how the early church turned the world upside down in one generation, while many among us have served the Lord for decades, and still find maturity elusive?

They had a corporate miraculous experience of the Holy Spirit's power. Their experiences weren't watered down by false doctrines and traditions and many of them actually knew Jesus.

 

[Pearl]

What we need to understand is that this is not a blanket promise we can take to the bank, no matter whether or not our eyes are fixed on Him. Remember, to te Corinthians Paul said he stood in doubt of them, and feared he would have to labor again till Christ be formed in them.

It is only when we put off our old natures, giving satan no avenue to successfully attack, that we find the assurance of our unwavering singleness of eye. Why? Because it is the new nature He asks us to put on by faith that He causes to obey Him.

blessings,

Gideon

@Gideons300 How much of your old nature have you put off? However mature we are, I'm pretty sure we are all still carrying some of the old nature. Only the Holy Spirit can change us.

 

[Nancy]

@Gideons300 How much of your old nature have you put off? However mature we are, I'm pretty sure we are all still carrying some of the old nature. Only the Holy Spirit can change us.

Agreed and amen Pat! I think it is different for everyone. Like, when someone lives in sin for most of their lives, becomes born again later in life. There is much shedding to do! And much maturing in Him so we can grow. Yes for sure, ONLY The Holy Spirit can change us.
xx

 

[Pearl]

Agreed and amen Pat! I think it is different for everyone. Like, when someone lives in sin for most of their lives, becomes born again later in life. There is much shedding to do! And much maturing in Him so we can grow. Yes for sure, ONLY The Holy Spirit can change us.
xx

For some people the change from natural to spiritual is very dramatic and obvious and I love to hear such testimonies. But a lot of us considered ourselves to be 'good' people so the change is less obvious. But we are all on the same journey but at our own speed and learning as we go along.

 

[Hidden In Him]

We must escape the mentality that we have need of nothing, that somehow, God sees us as perfect, so why sweat it? Bottom line, we must come to the point we HATE our self life. HATE our willful sin. HATE our lack of fruit. Nothing else will do.

Amen and good post, especially the above. There seem to be doctrines in nearly every major mainline denomination that encourage them to stagnation, and a type of self-satisfied lackadaisicalness such that the Lord really can't do anything with them. They don't feel He really needs to.

I do not understand the mindset, and don't think I ever will. The only way we accomplish anything good in this life is if and when HE does it through us, and there is such a vast difference between Him and us that I can make no sense of being self-satisfied and self-assured, ever.

 

[Nancy]

For some people the change from natural to spiritual is very dramatic and obvious and I love to hear such testimonies. But a lot of us considered ourselves to be 'good' people so the change is less obvious. But we are all on the same journey but at our own speed and learning as we go along.

Yes, just in different places, but on the same narrow path

 

[Pearl]

There seem to be doctrines in nearly every major mainline denomination that encourage them to stagnation,

So very true. So the answer is to get out of the major mainline denominations.

 

[Truman]

 

[Truman]

Twenty-one years ago I had the rock fall on me and I was ground to dust.
I then learned to deny self, take up my cross daily, and follow Jesus Messiah.
One day last September, I believe it was, I rejoiced in my suffering and Jesus, along with me, was resurrected in my heart.
He has been beaming in me ever since!
Hello, Gideon, glad to meet you.

 

[Truman]

https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=...8E51DA!331&parId=5EE29A0AE88E51DA!103&o=OneUp

 

[Gideons300]

They had a corporate miraculous experience of the Holy Spirit's power. Their experiences weren't watered down by false doctrines and traditions and many of them actually knew Jesus.

So if that be the case, and maturity among the saints is rare today, should we not be found beseeching the Lord to pour out upon us the same infilling of the Holy Spirit? If there was a body of believers that were not taught false doctrines and were actually walking in maturity, would they not be like lights in the darkness, drawing hungry believers into the light and shining forth to a very lost and very needy world?

blessings,

Gideon

 

[Gideons300]

@Gideons300 How much of your old nature have you put off? However mature we are, I'm pretty sure we are all still carrying some of the old nature. Only the Holy Spirit can change us.

That is where we are misunderstanding. We do not grow from old nature to new. We put it off by faith, once for all.

Oh, that we might "get it". We ARE new! Our old nature IS dead. However, we have not believed it or appropriated it by faith as our possession, right here, right now. And it is this unbelief that has opened the door for satan to keep us in the wilderness of unbelief, always 'getting there', but never arriving.

It is when we finally get tired and fed up with satan stealing our lunch money that we will cry our like Paul did in Romans 7. Brokenness must precede our infilling. As I stated earlier, we must finally come to HATE our failure to obey Him, HATE our lack of fruit, HATE our professing what we do not possess and walk in.

God has promised to plant us on the highway of holiness and that even the weakest among us will be able to walk with their foot on satan's neck. And the shakings that are beginning are purposed by our faithful God to bring us to that state of brokenness, hunger and desperation. He only wants to bless us, but cannot until we believe such a walk is not only possible, but our birthright.

blessings,

Gids

 

[Gideons300]

Twenty-one years ago I had the rock fall on me and I was ground to dust.
I then learned to deny self, take up my cross daily, and follow Jesus Messiah.
One day last September, I believe it was, I rejoiced in my suffering and Jesus, along with me, was resurrected in my heart.
He has been beaming in me ever since!
Hello, Gideon, glad to meet you.

Hello to you as well Ron. Glad you joined us.

Gids

 

[Gideons300]

So very true. So the answer is to get out of the major mainline denominations.

Hi Gideon, Amen! You have correctly outlined the will of God for all of us, who are "born again" of His Spirit, aka NEW creatures.

Eph.4[22] That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Col.3[8] But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
[9] Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

Unfortunately, many have gone about the wrong way of doing.
In fact, its not about us doing anything of that nature of "putting off", but rather, as you quoted: presenting ourselves (bodies) to God, as a living holy sacrifice, to be used for His purposes.

Its not about our form of righteous deeds that we do through our flesh, but rather what WE ALLOW of Him to perform His Righteousness in and through us.

So then, the answer of how we are to correctly put off the old man and its deeds, is found in:
Rom.12[2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Tit.3[5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Which brings us back to what you originally quoted:
Rom.12[1] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy*, acceptable* unto God, which is your reasonable service.

*Note: if we are born again of His Spirit, we already are made to be "holy" (set apart) for His use, through faith in His shed Blood for us.
Apart from that, nothing else will make us holy unto God the Father.

Hello Earburner. Thank you so much for sharing. You shared much truth. May God bless you for that.

Gids

 

[Truman]

So if that be the case, and maturity among the saints is rare today, should we not be found beseeching the Lord to pour out upon us the same infilling of the Holy Spirit? If there was a body of believers that were not taught false doctrines and were actually walking in maturity, would they not be like lights in the darkness, drawing hungry believers into the light and shining forth to a very lost and very needy world?

blessings,

Gideon

The Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord shine His face on you and be gracious to you; the Lord turn His face to you and give you peace.

 

[Pearl]

So if that be the case, and maturity among the saints is rare today, should we not be found beseeching the Lord to pour out upon us the same infilling of the Holy Spirit? If there was a body of believers that were not taught false doctrines and were actually walking in maturity, would they not be like lights in the darkness, drawing hungry believers into the light and shining forth to a very lost and very needy world?

blessings,

Gideon

Amen Gideon. God has put on my heart to pray for the Church this year. Following his lead and not my own thoughts I am doing so. I have placed a reminder in my bible which I read every day because as God know I am only dust. I invite you to join with me to pray for Jesus' Church. There is a thread on here too that you could perhaps look at - Pray for the Church.

 

[farouk]

Amen Gideon. God has put on my heart to pray for the Church this year. Following his lead and not my own thoughts I am doing so. I have placed a reminder in my bible which I read every day because as God know I am only dust. I invite you to join with me to pray for Jesus' Church. There is a thread on here too that you could perhaps look at - Pray for the Church.

@Pearl I do appreciate the references to prayer in Acts 2.42 and Hebrews 7.25...

 

[farouk]

That is where we are misunderstanding. We do not grow from old nature to new. We put it off by faith, once for all.

Oh, that we might "get it". We ARE new! Our old nature IS dead. However, we have not believed it or appropriated it by faith as our possession, right here, right now. And it is this unbelief that has opened the door for satan to keep us in the wilderness of unbelief, always 'getting there', but never arriving.

It is when we finally get tired and fed up with satan stealing our lunch money that we will cry our like Paul did in Romans 7. Brokenness must precede our infilling. As I stated earlier, we must finally come to HATE our failure to obey Him, HATE our lack of fruit, HATE our professing what we do not possess and walk in.

God has promised to plant us on the highway of holiness and that even the weakest among us will be able to walk with their foot on satan's neck. And the shakings that are beginning are purposed by our faithful God to bring us to that state of brokenness, hunger and desperation. He only wants to bless us, but cannot until we believe such a walk is not only possible, but our birthright.

blessings,

Gids

That is where we are misunderstanding. We do not grow from old nature to new. We put it off by faith, once for all.

Oh, that we might "get it". We ARE new! Our old nature IS dead. However, we have not believed it or appropriated it by faith as our possession, right here, right now. And it is this unbelief that has opened the door for satan to keep us in the wilderness of unbelief, always 'getting there', but never arriving.

It is when we finally get tired and fed up with satan stealing our lunch money that we will cry our like Paul did in Romans 7. Brokenness must precede our infilling. As I stated earlier, we must finally come to HATE our failure to obey Him, HATE our lack of fruit, HATE our professing what we do not possess and walk in.

God has promised to plant us on the highway of holiness and that even the weakest among us will be able to walk with their foot on satan's neck. And the shakings that are beginning are purposed by our faithful God to bring us to that state of brokenness, hunger and desperation. He only wants to bless us, but cannot until we believe such a walk is not only possible, but our birthright.

blessings,

Gids

@Gideons300 Yes, we need the new birth, as described in John 3 and Ephesians 2...

 

[Gideons300]

@Gideons300 Romans 8 is so searching, so assuring, so triumphant!

Yes, it is Farouk. That is our land of promise. We were intended to simply pass through the wilderness, just as the Israelites were. And yet, just like them, unbelief has hampered us, rippled us and caused us to become a religious organization, not a light to an ever-darkening world.

But praise God, He is not finished with us yet. We are being invited into Romans 8, and we donot have to be strong enough or good enough. We simply have to acknowledge our need instead of saying we have need of nothing and then cry out to our faithful God to deliver us from our unbelief and the sins that are birthed by it

May Paul's prayer for the Ephesians become the cry of our hearts.

"For this reason I too, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which exists among you and your love for all the saints, do not cease giving thanks for you, while making mention of you in my prayers;

that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him.

I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the boundless greatness of His power toward us who believe.

Ephesians 1:15-18

Amen and amen!

blessings,

Gideon