Xander, I am not sitting here and chuckling evilly as I think up new ways to insult you. Thats not who I am. I have explained to you why I reply; I do answer your questions, I do show scripture, and while I may call you things such as religious and heretic, it is by your own admissions that I come to these conclusions. (check out dictionary definitions if you want!) I am not calling you anything malicious, and really, you are freely entitled to your own opinions, but so am I, and my opinion is that you're wrong.
I suspect that we'll only know who was right once we reach the End! You completely believe you're right, and I completely believe I am!
Which kinda brings us back to the topic. You want me to comment on this thread, which I did, you want me to show you bible verses, which I did. The reason our conversation deviated like this is because you refuse to see that the verses I showed had any relation to the comment!
I showed Luke 23:32, which you said meant something else, even though you're logic didn't really follow through...I did answer that too....
I showed Phil 1:23 where Paul states that to die means to be with the Lord, you didn't answer this at all.
2 Cor 5:8 again shows Paul's belief (as he is led by the Spirits prompting) that to die is to be with Jesus....again you didn't answer this.
Rev 6:9 shows us heaven, and the souls of believers in heaven under the alter. I asked how believers could be in heaven before the judgment, without believers going to heaven before the judgment?! You didn't answer.
So really, please stop accusing me of not answering and of not showing bible verses.
Oh, by they way, if find it interesting and telling when you call this "the lesson at hand". It confirms my belief that you view this as your personal school room, to show everyone who doesn't think exactly as you do that they are wrong. This is a debate forum, you should be prepared to answer the questions and opinions that fly at you.
And to finish up, I just want to remind you...its all about Jesus! His life, death, burial and resurrection. I know you acknowledge this, and I thank God for it! But everything we discuss needs to be under the light of this. Jesus says in Matthew 22:34-40 that love is the greatest commandment! To love God and to love others! Its this love that prompts me to stand firm in biblical truth. I know you don't see this, as you think my truth is lie...but I just wanted you to know where I come from when I post.
Lets read, and understand what Jesus said on the cross.
Luke 23:[sup]42[/sup]And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. [sup]43[/sup]And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.( My question to all is, did Jesus mean that very day?) Let's see!
Matthew 12:
[sup]39[/sup]But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
[sup]
40[/sup]For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (So Jesus had to go into the earth for 3 days and 3 nights) Keep that in mind!
John 20:
[sup]15[/sup]Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
[sup]
16[/sup]Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. [sup]
17[/sup]Jesus saith unto her,
Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
(Jesus told her to touch Him not, because He had tp present himself a living sacrifice before God. so after three days, Jesus still hadn't gone to heaven. My question is, did the theif go to heaven before Jesus? I think not! )
I recall you mentioning that Thomas touched Him. Yes I understand that, but if we understand the history of sacrifice, we can come to the conclusion why Jesus said to Mary not to touch Him. I will try to make it as simple as possible for any babes that are in Christ reading this post.
Lev. 4:[sup]3[/sup]If the priest that is anointed do sin according to the sin of the people; then let him bring for his sin, which he hath sinned,
a young bullock without blemish unto the LORD for a sin offering. 7And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the LORD concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty; [sup]28[/sup]Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female
without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned. (Notice here if a priest or common person sin through ignorance, there was a kid or bullock
without blemish. That's very important, to what I will show next!) Lev 16: [sup]2[/sup]And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother,
that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat. ( Notice Aron was not to go at all time into the holy place within the vail? Why?)(Because the day of Atonement was once a year.) Pay attention to these verses!
Lev16: [sup]5[/sup]And he shall take of the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering. [sup]6[/sup]And Aaron shall offer his bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make an atonement for himself, and for his house.
[sup]7[/sup]And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
[sup]8[/sup]And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the LORD, and the other lot for the scapegoat.
[sup]9[/sup]And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the LORD's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.
[sup]10[/sup]But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
Jesus represented both of these goats. One for sin. One for the scapegoat. They both were without blemish! 1 Peter 1:[sup]19[/sup]But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a
lamb without blemish and without spot: Eph 5:[sup]2[/sup]And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and
hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. Now that I made this point, Mari could not touch Jesus until He was presented before the father. Notice what Jesus said to Mary John 20: [sup]17[/sup]Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father:
but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. He told Mary to go and tell His brother He was going to ascend to unto His Father to present Himself a living sacrifice. Mary couldn't touch Him, because He had to be without blemish. Thomas touched Him after He presented Himself to the father. I understand that because of the way sacrifice was done on the day of Atonement. Hopefully that Help. And as Phil 1:23,2 Cor 5:8,Rev 6:9, If you would have read my previous post. You would of notice what I thought of these scriptures. If you want to know my thoughts, you'll have to back, and read them.
At what point did God EVER say His laws must be kept perfectly?
Answer...
Never!!!
Now getting back to the lesson.....
What does any of what you are posting have to do with the fact that Jesus is the ONLY "...first born from the dead"?
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Hey Ecc, I appreciate the lesson, and hope to see more. The truth needs to be taught in these times, when false doctrine is running rampid. There are people searching for the truth, I'm just glad to see another brother with understanding of the scriptures giving it. Peace to you!! And continue to bring the truth!!! Be strengthen in the fact that there are people like myself paying attention, and always seeking understanding in the scriptures.