A Christian who deny Jesus is God in Flesh

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jaybird

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As a matter of fact, the Holy Spirit became one with the egg in the womb of the virgin Mary (Luke 1:35); which means that Jesus is a combination that equals 100% Man and 100% God in the hypostatic union (which is sound doctrine).
my bible version does not say that:

Luke 1:35(ESV)
And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.

no mention of the child being the Most High, no mention of co equal, no mention of the trinity or any of that. it just says the spirit will come and the power of the Most High will over shadow, and then gives the titles, Son of the Most High, it does not say Most High.

what bible version do you use?
 
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justbyfaith

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It is implied in the verse and can be ascertained by comparing it to other scripture...

Such as Genesis 3:15 and Isaiah 9:6.

But I know that you have been falsely taught as concerning the latter verse.
 

jaybird

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It is implied in the verse and can be ascertained by comparing it to other scripture...

Such as Genesis 3:15 and Isaiah 9:6.

But I know that you have been falsely taught as concerning the latter verse.

ohhhhhh ok its "implied". thats a big difference than what the verse actually says.
 

jaybird

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Yes sometimes you have to read between the lines in order to get the real scoop of what is taught by holy scripture.

i dont know, thats exactly what the pharisees did and Jesus was not happy with it.
now if you want to believe this and tell everyone, "this is what i think it means", nothing wrong with that but when you read it and tell everyone, "this is what the passage means" when the passage does not say that, thats not good.
 

justbyfaith

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I'm going to change the subject slightly.

It should be clear that there is one Lord in holy scripture (Ephesians 4:5); and that this Lord is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). However, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Spirit of truth (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv)). And, Jesus is the Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6).

So, there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5), the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).

In light of this scripture, do you confess that Jesus is the Lord?

If you don't, then you don't have the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv)).
 

justbyfaith

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Yes sometimes you have to read between the lines in order to get the real scoop of what is taught by holy scripture.

i dont know, thats exactly what the pharisees did and Jesus was not happy with it.
now if you want to believe this and tell everyone, "this is what i think it means", nothing wrong with that but when you read it and tell everyone, "this is what the passage means" when the passage does not say that, thats not good.

Now, getting back on subject, I do believe that "reading between the lines" involves comparing the scripture you are reading with your knowledge of other scripture.

1Co 2:13, Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
 

101G

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hey 10g just call me g money.
i would say a son comes from his father.
First thanks for the reply,......... g money :D and second, as said we are discussing, and not arguing. yes, I agree that a son comes for a Father, if we are speak biologically. but consider how the term is used in context. first lets look at the definition. my source is the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words.
Son: G5207, huios primarily signifies the relation of offspring to parent, See John 9:18-John 9:20; Gal 4:30. "this is what most people think of a son, the biological definition", but I believe it's used in the Godhead, as for the Lord Jesus, the Son, is not so. let the definition tells us. listen to how it also can be used.

It is often used metaphorically of prominent moral characteristics. (A). descendants, without reference to sex, Rom 9:27. (B). those who act in a certain way, whether evil, Matt 23:31, or good, Gal 3:7. (C). those who manifest a certain character, whether evil, Acts 13:10; Eph 2:2, or good, Luke 6:35; Acts 4:36; Rom 8:14. (D). the destiny that corresponds with the character, whether evil, Matt 23:15; John 17:12; 2Thess 2:3, or good, Luke 20:36; (E). those who enjoy certain privileges, Acts 3:25. please look up this term. now there are other words that Identify a son also. but when it comes to the Lord Jesus, G5207, huios is prominentely used.

looking at our definition above, beside it's biological use, it is clear that when it comes to bibical use, that biological use is not what is ment. example, 2 Timothy 1:2 "To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord."
we know that Timothy was not Paul's biological ... "son". but the term G5043 τέκνον teknon (tek'-non) n. is used.
a child (as produced).
[from the base of G5098]
KJV: child, daughter, son
Root(s): G5088

but why was the term son, G5043 τέκνον teknon used? lets see, scripture, 1 Timothy 1:2 "Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord." that cleared it up, there we have it, a "son" in the faith"., and not biologically. as we can see clearly in this scripture, listen,1 Corinthians 4:15 "For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel."
again, the apostle Paul is using a biological metaphor for a spiritual representation.

now, when the Holy Ghost overshadow Mary, it was not in a biological way. understand, the term "overshadow" is the Greek term,
G1982 ἐπισκιάζω episkiazo (ep-ee-skee-ad'-zo) v.
1. to cast a shade upon
2. (by analogy) to envelop in a haze of brilliancy
3. (figuratively) to invest with preternatural influence

definition #3. tells us how the body, (the flesh and blood), was conceived, because the spirit that dwelt in that flesh and blood is ETERNAL, never begotten. but what was begotten, (flesh and blood/a body), as Isaiah 9:6 states... "Child", and the "son" is given, Spirit, not begotten nor the the Spirit was born. but that child, was by "preternatural influence", which means, "not in the natural way of conception between a man and a women". so the Lord Jesus the spirit, nor was his Body, was of HUMAN conception. so biologically he's no one's son.... follow me?

so the question, "why is the Lord Jesus, God almighty .... is called a Son? answer, A. the term "Son" means metaphorically, not biological, "character" and guess what else? that's God character, or characteristics ... "Holy", for God is Holy, and you and I know that his nature is "Spirit, hence the appellation, "Holy... Spirit"...... see it. understand "Holy" is God's character/the Son, and Spirit is his Nature/Father. supportive scripture, Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"
that word "express Image" is G5481 χαρακτήρ charakter (cha-rak-teer') n.
1. an engraver (the tool or the person).
2. (by implication) an engraving.
3. (hence) a “character,” the figure stamped.
4. (by extension) an exact copy.
5. (figuratively) a representation.
[from charasso “to sharpen to a point” (akin to G1125 through the idea of scratching)]
KJV: express image

there it is in definition #3, "character", just as G5207, huios, Son, states, listen, metaphorically of prominent moral characteristics. there we go, the TITLE identify "character", that's why we're called sons of God, why? because of our "character" be ye "holy" for I am Holy. BINGO, being Holy is a son, because every son act like their Father, and here it's Holiness for us.

the Lord Jesus who is the Equal share of his ownself, in flesh, as the Son, he's the builder, what a natural son do, over his OWN house, (hebrews 3:6). for we 're in HIM, and in him dwells the Godhead fully... there it is.

now, the term Father, again his NATURE... Spirit, per John 4:24a. when the Lord Jesus said while on earth, in shared/diversifed flesh, "My Father which art in heaven, he's simply saying, My Spirit, which is in heaven, (because he in a diversified state and is the EQUAL SHARE of that ONE Spirit, Per Phil 2:6). and when the LORD Jesus say from heaven, My Son on earth, he's saying my Body on earth.

so in conclusion, the Lord Jesus is called Son, which is only a title, and not biologically, but speaking Spiritual or metaphorically of "character".

hope you understand, and thanks in advance for a civil reply and discussion. if you have any questions, first re-read the post, or please ask.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 
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101G

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justbyfaith said:
As a matter of fact, the Holy Spirit became one with the egg in the womb of the virgin Mary (Luke 1:35); which means that Jesus is a combination that equals 100% Man and 100% God in the hypostatic union (which is sound doctrine)
.
no, the bible don't say that. that's how that angelical error got started in Genesis chapter 6.

no Spirit being, is having sex with humans. please stay away from fables, and old wives tales. stay with the scripture.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

justbyfaith

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No, 101G...

The hypostatic union, which is sound doctrine, is based on the idea that the Holy Spirit became one with the egg in the womb of the virgin Mary.

Mary is indeed "the mother of our Lord" (Luke 1:43).

So, Jesus is 100% God and 100% Man...a perfect union between the Holy Ghost (as the "seed of the woman", Genesis 3:15) and the egg in Mary's womb; which produced a zygote that was 100% Man and 100% God.

This is basically sound doctrine for those who will receive it for what it is.
 
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jaybird

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First thanks for the reply,......... g money :D and second, as said we are discussing, and not arguing. yes, I agree that a son comes for a Father, if we are speak biologically. but consider how the term is used in context. first lets look at the definition. my source is the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words.
Son: G5207, huios primarily signifies the relation of offspring to parent, See John 9:18-John 9:20; Gal 4:30. "this is what most people think of a son, the biological definition", but I believe it's used in the Godhead, as for the Lord Jesus, the Son, is not so. let the definition tells us. listen to how it also can be used.

It is often used metaphorically of prominent moral characteristics. (A). descendants, without reference to sex, Rom 9:27. (B). those who act in a certain way, whether evil, Matt 23:31, or good, Gal 3:7. (C). those who manifest a certain character, whether evil, Acts 13:10; Eph 2:2, or good, Luke 6:35; Acts 4:36; Rom 8:14. (D). the destiny that corresponds with the character, whether evil, Matt 23:15; John 17:12; 2Thess 2:3, or good, Luke 20:36; (E). those who enjoy certain privileges, Acts 3:25. please look up this term. now there are other words that Identify a son also. but when it comes to the Lord Jesus, G5207, huios is prominentely used.

looking at our definition above, beside it's biological use, it is clear that when it comes to bibical use, that biological use is not what is ment. example, 2 Timothy 1:2 "To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord."
we know that Timothy was not Paul's biological ... "son". but the term G5043 τέκνον teknon (tek'-non) n. is used.
a child (as produced).
[from the base of G5098]
KJV: child, daughter, son
Root(s): G5088

but why was the term son, G5043 τέκνον teknon used? lets see, scripture, 1 Timothy 1:2 "Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord." that cleared it up, there we have it, a "son" in the faith"., and not biologically. as we can see clearly in this scripture, listen,1 Corinthians 4:15 "For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel."
again, the apostle Paul is using a biological metaphor for a spiritual representation.

now, when the Holy Ghost overshadow Mary, it was not in a biological way. understand, the term "overshadow" is the Greek term,
G1982 ἐπισκιάζω episkiazo (ep-ee-skee-ad'-zo) v.
1. to cast a shade upon
2. (by analogy) to envelop in a haze of brilliancy
3. (figuratively) to invest with preternatural influence

definition #3. tells us how the body, (the flesh and blood), was conceived, because the spirit that dwelt in that flesh and blood is ETERNAL, never begotten. but what was begotten, (flesh and blood/a body), as Isaiah 9:6 states... "Child", and the "son" is given, Spirit, not begotten nor the the Spirit was born. but that child, was by "preternatural influence", which means, "not in the natural way of conception between a man and a women". so the Lord Jesus the spirit, nor was his Body, was of HUMAN conception. so biologically he's no one's son.... follow me?

so the question, "why is the Lord Jesus, God almighty .... is called a Son? answer, A. the term "Son" means metaphorically, not biological, "character" and guess what else? that's God character, or characteristics ... "Holy", for God is Holy, and you and I know that his nature is "Spirit, hence the appellation, "Holy... Spirit"...... see it. understand "Holy" is God's character/the Son, and Spirit is his Nature/Father. supportive scripture, Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"
that word "express Image" is G5481 χαρακτήρ charakter (cha-rak-teer') n.
1. an engraver (the tool or the person).
2. (by implication) an engraving.
3. (hence) a “character,” the figure stamped.
4. (by extension) an exact copy.
5. (figuratively) a representation.
[from charasso “to sharpen to a point” (akin to G1125 through the idea of scratching)]
KJV: express image

there it is in definition #3, "character", just as G5207, huios, Son, states, listen, metaphorically of prominent moral characteristics. there we go, the TITLE identify "character", that's why we're called sons of God, why? because of our "character" be ye "holy" for I am Holy. BINGO, being Holy is a son, because every son act like their Father, and here it's Holiness for us.

the Lord Jesus who is the Equal share of his ownself, in flesh, as the Son, he's the builder, what a natural son do, over his OWN house, (hebrews 3:6). for we 're in HIM, and in him dwells the Godhead fully... there it is.

now, the term Father, again his NATURE... Spirit, per John 4:24a. when the Lord Jesus said while on earth, in shared/diversifed flesh, "My Father which art in heaven, he's simply saying, My Spirit, which is in heaven, (because he in a diversified state and is the EQUAL SHARE of that ONE Spirit, Per Phil 2:6). and when the LORD Jesus say from heaven, My Son on earth, he's saying my Body on earth.

so in conclusion, the Lord Jesus is called Son, which is only a title, and not biologically, but speaking Spiritual or metaphorically of "character".

hope you understand, and thanks in advance for a civil reply and discussion. if you have any questions, first re-read the post, or please ask.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Argue, discuss, makes no difference to me. Tell me I'm wrong or prove me wrong but do it like a gentleman and we will always be friends.
You write so much, it gives me brain damage trying to sort through it. I have more I want to say but will have to wait till I'm home from work, can't do on phone.
 

Ronald Nolette

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All I will say is that if they die in unbelief as concerning the Deity of Christ, it will be in their sins (John 8:24).

That never was an issue in this discussion until you made it one. I have been talking about the beginning of their walk with God, you are talking their old age and end of walk!
 

101G

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Argue, discuss, makes no difference to me. Tell me I'm wrong or prove me wrong but do it like a gentleman and we will always be friends.
You write so much, it gives me brain damage trying to sort through it. I have more I want to say but will have to wait till I'm home from work, can't do on phone.
first thanks for the reply, second, I perfer to discuss. third, I'm guessing that you didn't understand what I posted. fourth, why should I tell you that you're Right or Wrong? let the scriptures tell you if you're right or wrong?.

now a simple test, since you said, "I write so much". answer yourself, " is the Person in John 1:3 WHO MADE ALL THINGS, is he, the same Person in Isaiah 44:24 who MADE ALL THINGS", YES or NO? this will answer your Father and Son question.

now, you answer yourself. and weight the result...... you will have your answer.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

jaybird

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No, 101G...

The hypostatic union, which is sound doctrine, is based on the idea that the Holy Spirit became one with the egg in the womb of the virgin Mary.

Mary is indeed "the mother of our Lord" (Luke 1:43).

So, Jesus is 100% God and 100% Man...a perfect union between the Holy Ghost (as the "seed of the woman", Genesis 3:15) and the egg in Mary's womb; which produced a zygote that was 100% Man and 100% God.

This is basically sound doctrine for those who will receive it for what it is.
I don't know, if we follow this logic it would make mankind 100% Most High, unless Jesus is 100% of a different kind of man than we are.
IMO the trinity conflicts with scripture and the only way to make it fit is to continue making new doctrine to fix the contradictions. But every doctrine seems to make another contradiction. With so many problems I think it's wise to go back to the beginning and re think things
 
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101G

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With so many problems I think it's wise to go back to the beginning and re think things
you're 100% correct, if we get the beginning right we will END ... up right.

God one person created every, and all things.... do you agree, including Genesis 1:26.

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101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 

justbyfaith

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I don't know, if we follow this logic it would make mankind 100% Most High,

Not all of mankind...just Jesus Christ; who is the only begotten Son of God.

unless Jesus is 100% of a different kind of man than we are.

He is...for He came only in the likeness of sinful flesh (His flesh was truly without sin)...but I fail to see your point.

How does the fact that Jesus Himself is 100% Man and 100% God make that true of all mankind?
 

sho

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I don't know, if we follow this logic it would make mankind 100% Most High, unless Jesus is 100% of a different kind of man than we are.
IMO the trinity conflicts with scripture and the only way to make it fit is to continue making new doctrine to fix the contradictions. But every doctrine seems to make another contradiction. With so many problems I think it's wise to go back to the beginning and re think things
You have been shown from the Bible that Jesus IS HE, so go and accept Jesus as your God and Creator, only then can you be saved.
 

101G

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You have been shown from the Bible that Jesus IS HE, so go and accept Jesus as your God and Creator, only then can you be saved.
100% correct, Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."

that I am he?

John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

BINGO, there he is. "I am he"

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sho

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100% correct, Isaiah 43:10 "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me."

that I am he?

John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

BINGO, there he is. "I am he"

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Amen.

Jesus means "YAHWEH is the savior". Christ means "the anointed".

Jesus Christ means "YAHWEH is the savior and anointed"
 

WaterSong

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justbyfaith said:
As a matter of fact, the Holy Spirit became one with the egg in the womb of the virgin Mary (Luke 1:35); which means that Jesus is a combination that equals 100% Man and 100% God in the hypostatic union (which is sound doctrine)
.
no, the bible don't say that. that's how that angelical error got started in Genesis chapter 6.

no Spirit being, is having sex with humans. please stay away from fables, and old wives tales. stay with the scripture.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Fables and old wives tales? Luke 1 is that? No, not at all.

What I think many seem to either overlook, forget, or choose to ignore and then mock for their personal reasons, is that God first and foremost is the creator of absolutely every thing that exists. The seen and the unseen. From the Sequoia on the west coast of America to the atoms that make it appear as a solid redwood tree in this three dimensional realm, and even the realm itself. God is the source. And all that exists, seen and unseen, is both of and from God.
That is Biblical fact.
This means, the egg in Mary and Mary herself first and foremost are of and from God! The Holy Spirit, that is God, and it is Holy Spirit people are referring to when they cite the term, God, begat himself upon Mary in order to be born as the Messiah Jesus. And this fact, per the scriptures, is abundantly clear when the Angel that first appeared to Mary to inform her she was highly favored by God for this blessing, told her that the child she was to bring to life was to be known as Emmanuel. And what did that name mean? The Angel told her, God with us.

That introduction in future, being Emmanuel would be born into a Jewish family and a Jewish culture, would inform all who heard it to whom they were speaking or/and being introduced. God in the flesh. Fully man? Yes. Fully divine and channeling in the human form the power of Holy Spirit? Absolutely!
Does this in any way take from the fact Jesus was God in the flesh? Not at all.

Rather than debate what God himself tells us in his word, why not ask why any Christian would choose to deny God, in his grace, delivered his new covenant in person, in the person, of Jesus Emmanuel Christ? Because cursed is he who hangs on a tree. That too is scripture.
Jesus Emmanuel Christ took the sins of the world upon himself on the tree, the cross. And his shed blood there sealed the covenant, the new salvation covenant of eternal redemption through faith by the grace of the one who made the sacrifice; God!


We who are indwelt, who accept Jesus as our Savior, need debate this fact? When, if/as we do, we may wish to consider we're challenging what God said and did in order to make it possible that we call ourselves of Christ today.

Why would we do that? Argue, debate among ourselves? As if what? God's words are not eternal and clear as crystal?

Really?
 
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