Colossians 2:14-16 - The Law That Was Against Us

[BloodBought 1953]

No. You did not just provide a list of Bible verses. The intent of your posting was to convince me, or anyone else that was reading, that first...

in other words, "existing" (whatever that means) under God's commandments is intimating that we shouldn't obey God's commandments, and that by doing so, we are living outside of grace. That my friend is nonsense. You are, without saying so, that anyone who seeks to obey God's commandments is doing so in order to be justified by their obedience, which is nothing more than a diversion...a straw-man...because you don't want to obey God's commandments for any reason. You also provided that list in order to prove


which is true, and why are we no longer under the law? Because we have been granted, by grace, the righteousness of Christ. Such a precious gift however does not remove the law as the standard of that righteousness. As to your list to "prove" whatever point you were making, it was not just a list of scriptures. To each scripture quoted, you introduced each and every one with a commentary of your own...presumably to convince the reader, me, to look at said scripture through your eyes, and in tune with your understanding. Sorry, no. That I will not do. The following two examples are why...


This is wrong in the sense that strictly speaking, the law only brings wrath upon them who transgress it. I would presume you are talking about the Ten Commandments, because I assume you are intelligent enough not to attempt to convince anyone that the law of Moses, that is the civil laws and services and sacrifices of the sanctuary are still the guide for anyone in this discussion. The law we are focusing on is the decalogue right? That same law Americans are so upset about being removed from the walls of the courthouses and lawns of the local councils? That same law so many Americans believe is defunct? That law right? So yes, it brings wrath upon those who transgress. But, and this is a big BUT, does it bring wrath upon those empowered by the Spirit of God to obey that law? This text here...that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit Romans 8:4.


Again, your commentary lacks context and is presented to convince of an untruth. The law isn't in and of itself weak. It is powerful...perfect...and accomplishes exactly that for which it is intended. What made the law weak in its effect was the flesh of man. Read those scriptures you quoted again, and include verse 4 as I quoted above to give the full context. It is NOT the law that is weak...it is you.

“ By The Works Of The Law, no man will be Justified”.....that’s pretty much all I needed to hear...I want to get Saved....Trying and failing to obey those Laws ain’t the Way to Heaven.....The Law is “ weak” , due to its lack of POWER.....
God gave the Law to show you that it can’t be kept....it was given to show your need for a Savior and the Grace That The Savior will freely extend to all of those that will abandon their Self Effort and simply believe the Gospel Of 1 Cor15:1-4....
Once a person trust Jesus instead of the obedience to the Law as The means of obtaining their Salvation, God will give them His Holy Spirit.....and you will “ Find Yourself” Doing those things that please God....it’s all about that Transformation of the “inside of the cup” .....
The Law has served its purpose in my life—- it lead me to Jesus....
Let somebody else have that Law now. I traded it in for something that does a much better job of making me obedient—- an “ obedience” that God actually is interested in.....an “ obedience” that is spurred by Love—- not obligation and Fear.
I care about the “ Spirit” Of The Law, not the “ Letter” Of The Law.....
The Law means practically nothing to me.....paradoxically , I do a better job of keeping it that you do, I could safely wager....
Another “ safe wager” is that you will go to your grave not having a clue as to what I am talking about—- you have to live it....it’s called “ Christianity”. Sounds like you got a thing going on that I would call “ Judah-Anity” ....Judaism with a little bit of Jesus sprinkled about. I don’t think that God will have it.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

]It is NOT the law that is weak...it is you.[/QUOTE]


AMEN to that!! I KNOW and fully ADMIT that I am “ Weak!” How about you? The confession Of Weakness comes from a “ Contrite Heart”..... If you lack that “ Contrite Heart” That Sees that you are a hopeless and helpless Sinner and causes you to turn to your only means of Salvation—- the GRACE Of Jesus Christ , you have not even entered the “ Starting Gate” Of Christianity.....
God gave Mankind a “ Tool” to use to obtain a Contrite Heart—- it’s called “The LAW”. That Law was given to show you your sinful condition before a Holy God. Fools that thought that they could keep it were given another “ Tool” by Jesus. That “ tool” was called “ The Sermon on the Mount”—— the Law on Steroids!
Think you’re Hot Stuff because you never committed Adultery? Jesus taught the “ self-Righteous” Of His day that if you even THINK a Lustful thought, you are as guilty as somebody that does it!
The opposite Of a Contrite Heart , or Contrition, is Pride...it’s what doomed Satan. Looks like Satan is going to have plenty Of company with his Prideful Heart......

 

[Brakelite]

Once a person trust Jesus instead of the obedience to the Law as The means of obtaining their Salvation,

Quote me one instance where anyone on this forum has suggested, even hinted at, any possibility of obedience to the law, any law or any part thereof, is a means of obtaining salvation. Just one.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Quote me one instance where anyone on this forum has suggested, even hinted at, any possibility of obedience to the law, any law or any part thereof, is a means of obtaining salvation. Just one.

No.

 

[Brakelite]

No.

Don't blame you. Would be a heck of a waste of time searching, then coming up with nothing.

 

[Brakelite]

“ By The Works Of The Law, no man will be Justified”.....that’s pretty much all I needed to hear...I want to get Saved....Trying and failing to obey those Laws ain’t the Way to Heaven.....The Law is “ weak” , due to its lack of POWER.....
God gave the Law to show you that it can’t be kept....it was given to show your need for a Savior and the Grace That The Savior will freely extend to all of those that will abandon their Self Effort and simply believe the Gospel Of 1 Cor15:1-4....
Once a person trust Jesus instead of the obedience to the Law as The means of obtaining their Salvation, God will give them His Holy Spirit.....and you will “ Find Yourself” Doing those things that please God....it’s all about that Transformation of the “inside of the cup” .....
The Law has served its purpose in my life—- it lead me to Jesus....
Let somebody else have that Law now. I traded it in for something that does a much better job of making me obedient—- an “ obedience” that God actually is interested in.....an “ obedience” that is spurred by Love—- not obligation and Fear.
I care about the “ Spirit” Of The Law, not the “ Letter” Of The Law.....
The Law means practically nothing to me.....paradoxically , I do a better job of keeping it that you do, I could safely wager....
Another “ safe wager” is that you will go to your grave not having a clue as to what I am talking about—- you have to live it....it’s called “ Christianity”. Sounds like you got a thing going on that I would call “ Judah-Anity” ....Judaism with a little bit of Jesus sprinkled about. I don’t think that God will have it.....

I don't blame you for discarding the law altogether. There's that pesky number 4 most people don't want to have anything to do with. Easier to obey the institution that replaced it with Sunday, rather than the God who instituted Sabbath at creation.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Don't blame you. Would be a heck of a waste of time searching, then coming up with nothing.

You really got me pegged! Thanks for not assigning me any “ blame”—— my world hangs on your opinion of me....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I don't blame you for discarding the law altogether. There's that pesky number 4 most people don't want to have anything to do with. Easier to obey the institution that replaced it with Sunday, rather than the God who instituted Sabbath at creation.

Hopefully you will read Romans 14 and recognize just who you are in the larger scheme Of things....you are the “ Weaker” Brother That Paul discusses .....overly concerned with “ do not touch and do not eat”...... you place too much concern on “ certain days”, whereas the Stronger man Of Faith has the Maturity to understand that God now ( this side of the Cross) considers all days the same.The “REST” that the OLD Testament Demanded was a shadow Of The TRUE SABBATH that we find in the New Testament—— That “ TRUE” Rest bring to Rest in the FINISHED work of the Cross....
Those, like me and others, that have Grown in our Faith and Knowledge Of God’s Ways are instructed to put up with you “ Weak Brothers”....... having said that —- make no mistake —- we must “ endure” your types , but nowhere does the Bible say that you guys are to run the Church....That ain’t happenin’ ......
Ask God to help you mature in your Faith.....

 

[Tong2020]

I have posted this before From Time to time.....seems like I can’t post it too often....


Many Christians give lip service to the fact they live in the New Covenant.

The truth however is that because they fail to realise they are no longer under the law they are really still living in an Old Covenant reality.

Perhaps they did not really understand the gospel. Or what gospel they believed is a perverted gospel. Or they fell victims to judaizers, false teachers, false prophets.

Here are 37 scriptures that prove that Christians are not under the law!

Acts
The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)

Romans
The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)

Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)

The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)

The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)

The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)

The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)

1 Corinthians
The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56)

2 Corinthians
The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7)

The law is a ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9)

The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)

The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11)

Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15)

Galatians
The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)

Christians are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19)

The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)

To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1)

The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)

The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)

The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)

The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16)

If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)

The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23)

The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24)

Ephesians
Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)

Philippians
Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8)

1 Timothy
The law is only good if used in the right context. (1 Timothy 1:8) (see next verse for the context)

It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)

Hebrews
The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)

God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8)

It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)

It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)

Well there you have it… 37 scriptures that make a very convincing arguement.

Why Christians are not or no longer under the law, that is with reference to the Law of Moses, is because they are not in the old covenant but in the new covenant with God.

The new covenant is a better covenant than the old covenant, with better promises. In the new covenant, the covenant people are not under the law or the law of Moses, but under the law of Christ.

@Blood Bought 1953, this post really is not for you, but for those who seem to still not realize the new covenant order, and somehow are still caught up with the law in the old covenant order, especially that of the Sabbath commandment.

Tong
R1767

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

 

[Tong2020]

a) Chopping up Scripture into single verses to prove doctrine is a serious error. You may or may not know that verses were added to the Bible centuries later as a reference tool.

b) In context, here is the relevant section from Paul's letter to the Romans...

"Consequently, just as condemnation for all people came through one transgression, so too through the one righteous act came righteousness leading to life for all people. For just as through the disobedience of the one man many were constituted sinners, so also through the obedience of one man many will be constituted righteous. Now the law came in so that the transgression may increase, but where sin increased, grace multiplied all the more, so that just as sin reigned in death, so also grace will reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Further down in his letter he wrote, "What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? That is as clear as it gets!!

This clearly disproves your statement that Christians are under the law. We are under grace, as the main subject of Paul's letter to the Romans and his other letters proves.

But it must be clear, the Law there is with reference to the Old covenant Law of Moses.

Tong
R1768

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Backlit said: ↑
I don't blame you for discarding the law altogether. There's that pesky number 4 most people don't want to have anything to do with. Easier to obey the institution that replaced it with Sunday, rather than the God who instituted Sabbath at creation.

Hopefully you will read Romans 14 and recognize just who you are in the larger scheme Of things....you are the “ Weaker” Brother That Paul discusses .....overly concerned with “ do not touch and do not eat”...... you place too much concern on “ certain days”, whereas the Stronger man Of Faith has the Maturity to understand that God now ( this side of the Cross) considers all days the same.The “REST” that the OLD Testament Demanded was a shadow Of The TRUE SABBATH that we find in the New Testament—— That “ TRUE” Rest bring to Rest in the FINISHED work of the Cross....
Those, like me and others, that have Grown in our Faith and Knowledge Of God’s Ways are instructed to put up with you “ Weak Brothers”....... having said that —- make no mistake —- we must “ endure” your types , but nowhere does the Bible say that you guys are to run the Church....That ain’t happenin’ ......
Ask God to help you mature in your Faith.....

You react to Backlit with this-- the very opposite, completely <<relying on system>> implied in Romans 14. And actually quote Colossians 2 WRONGLY, FRAUDULANTLY

Contradiction and strife rather than "growth with the growing of God .. in eating and drinking of Christ's Feast of SABBATH"!

Then turning into your real self, MEAN AND HAUGHTY.

I am ashamed, like John MacArthur I don't know if I could sell Christianity on any non-Christian with <<your, types .. running the Church>>.

O Lord, have mercy on your True Church so Few so Hidden with Christ so hidden in this world -- but HIDDEN IN GOD-- Christ's Body triumphant in the Last Day.

 

[Tong2020]

First, I read a few of your comments on those scriptures and disagree with your conclusion as to what they are conveying. Example.
Conflating the old covenant with 'law' is wrong. When God made a covenant with Noah and the animals after the flood, there was no law involved. The covenant was a promise, and all Noah had to do to receive the promise was to believe it.
The same with the covenant with Abraham. God made a promise. All Abraham had to do was believe. Circumcision was given as a sign of the promise. No laws involved.
God continued to repeat the covenant with Isaac, Jacob, and their descendants. His promises never failed. There was nothing "faulty" about the promises. What was faulty was Israel's responses... Their promises to obey when God never asked anyone to make any promises in response to His covenants. They of course failed their promise, and broke the covenant. The law, the priesthood, the sanctuary, the services and annual Sabbaths, were given because Israel transgressed the covenant. They danced before an idol 5 minutes after being told to worship only God. Moses hadn't even gotten down off the mountain. So Moses had to go back up another time and receive another two tables, but also a verbal instruction on how Israel was to approach God in the future... Through a mediator.
We still have to approach God through a Mediator...a High Priest... Jesus our Savior. That's all that's changed. The reason we need a Mediator is the same reason Israel did. Sin. The law... The ten commandments which point out that sin... Have not changed nor ever will.

The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)

True. Yet we are justified, brought into a place of harmony with the law, by faith.
KJV Romans 8:7-8
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But...
KJV Romans 8:3-4
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Righteousness of what law? How can the righteousness of the law be fulfilled in us, by the very purpose and power of God if the law is faulty and done away with? Why would God do such a wonderful thing in His people if the law was faulty?

God has found fault with it ...it? What is "it". The law? God's covenant? There was a fault with God's promises??? Or perhaps something else???... See below...
and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8)

It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)
Again, you are conflating law with God's promise. The old promise... The old covenant... Was done away not because the covenant/promise was faulty, but because the people to whom it was given were at fault. So a new covenant, a new promise, had to be made with Israel... It is that new promise... Through Christ... Through faith in God power, grace, and mercy, that we can receive that promise...I shall place My laws in their hearts and in their minds.

KJV Hebrews 8:6-10
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

What in your view, the new covenant is better than the old covenant?

Tong
R1769

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

 

[Brakelite]

Hopefully you will read Romans 14 and recognize just who you are in the larger scheme Of things....you are the “ Weaker” Brother That Paul discusses .....overly concerned with “ do not touch and do not eat”...... you place too much concern on “ certain days”, whereas the Stronger man Of Faith has the Maturity to understand that God now ( this side of the Cross) considers all days the same.The “REST” that the OLD Testament Demanded was a shadow Of The TRUE SABBATH that we find in the New Testament—— That “ TRUE” Rest bring to Rest in the FINISHED work of the Cross....
Those, like me and others, that have Grown in our Faith and Knowledge Of God’s Ways are instructed to put up with you “ Weak Brothers”....... having said that —- make no mistake —- we must “ endure” your types , but nowhere does the Bible say that you guys are to run the Church....That ain’t happenin’ ......
Ask God to help you mature in your Faith.....

Seeing you and I both claim the Bible as the foundation for faith and practice, I would expect you to be able to furnish me with some Bible texts which indicate God's removal of His holiness from the seventh day. After all, after 4000 years of a specific day being declared and stipulated as holy, sanctified, and an integral component of His holy law, I would imagine God didn't change all that without some say so in the transaction right? I mean, surely the change couldn't have come with the Apostles because that would have been too late. Jesus sealed the new covenant with His blood at Calvary... No changes to that covenant could be made after that time. So any change to the Sabbath had to be made prior to that time. So such change had to come from Jesus Himself. You said to me not long ago I should refer to the sermon on the mount. The law on steroids you said. Fair enough.
KJV Matthew 5:17-19
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

You want to love God, great, and so you should. But on whose terms? On whose authority do you rest in declaring the Sabbath no longer holy, sanctified, or worthy?? I would suggest Rome, and Rome alone. I know you have no love for Catholicism. Yet they correctly accept responsibility for the exaltation of Sunday sacredness, and the laying aside of the seventh day Sabbath, and the subsequent persecutions of Sabbath keepers over several centuries. Follow their lead if you wish. Because there's no substance in scripture for your opinion.

 

[Brakelite]

What in your view, the new covenant is better than the old covenant?

Tong
R1769

Oh wow. How long have you got? I tell you what. I'll start a new thread. "Why the New Covenant is better than the old". I'm a Seventh Day Adventist. So there should be plenty of ammunition for people here in such a thread to prove the cult status of my church right?

 

[Tong2020]

A waste of time, brother. All versions would give the same translation. If Paul abbreviated in one version, he did it in all versions. The Amplified Version simply adds synonyms--it does not interpret. It clarifies the translation. It would clarify the abbreviated term that Paul used.

Different versions do not explain when Paul abbreviates something. It is the *context* that determines that. If Paul described or inferred two kinds of faith, one OT and another NT, then his reference to *the* Faith immediately requires that we select which faith would be *the* one.

I'm just giving you an example of how it works. But it's still amazing to me that you looked up 60 versions! You truly are an excellent student of the Scriptures, and I mean that. Most of us might check only 2 or 3 versions.

Yes, I observed that not one version have your take on faith there, abbreviated or otherwise.

<<<The Amplified Version simply adds synonyms--it does not interpret. It clarifies the translation. It would clarify the abbreviated term that Paul used.>>>

Gal.3:12

AMP
But the Law does not rest on or require faith [it has nothing to do with faith], but [instead, the Law] says, “He who practices them [the things prescribed by the Law] shall live by them [instead of faith].”

AMPC
But the Law does not rest on faith [does not require faith, has nothing to do with faith], for it itself says, He who does them [the things prescribed by the Law] shall live by them [not by faith].

I observed that they say the same thing I said, that the law has nothing to do with faith.

Tong
R1770

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

But it must be clear, the Law there is with reference to the Old covenant Law of Moses.

Absolute contrary the passage and Paul! Paul is speaking to the Christians of his own time, directly, personally, using Second Person Direct Speech.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Hopefully you will read Romans 14 and recognize just who you are in the larger scheme Of things....you are the “ Weaker” Brother That Paul discusses .....overly concerned with “ do not touch and do not eat”...... you place too much concern on “ certain days”, whereas the Stronger man Of Faith has the Maturity to understand that God now ( this side of the Cross) considers all days the same.The “REST” that the OLD Testament Demanded was a shadow Of The TRUE SABBATH that we find in the New Testament—— That “ TRUE” Rest bring to Rest in the FINISHED work of the Cross....
Those, like me and others, that have Grown in our Faith and Knowledge Of God’s Ways are instructed to put up with you “ Weak Brothers”....... having said that —- make no mistake —- we must “ endure” your types , but nowhere does the Bible say that you guys are to run the Church....That ain’t happenin’ ......
Ask God to help you mature in your Faith.....

There is Blood of Christ; and there is blood of cup of wine. The former with His Life Christ paid for the souls of many. With the latter currency souls are Bought for hell.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

GerhardEbersoehn said: ↑
Show .. SCRIPTURE, for saying: <<the Old Covenant shows you that you are unrighteous>>, .

Behold, post:
Isaiah 64:6

then...

Romans 3:23


Go and study.
That is why i didnt post the verses.
You need to read them for yourself.

Perfect! You showed SCRIPTURE, for saying, the Old Covenant shows you that you are unrighteous.

WHY?

Because the so called <old covenant> is MAN'S oath -- broken oath of self-righteousness.

Now: Show SCRIPTURE for saying: <<the Old Covenant that shows you that you are unrighteous>>, is God's New Covenant -- like everybody all the time is doing!

Yes, in fact shows you that it is God's NEW Covenant which has the POWER TO CONVINCE OF SIN, OF JUDGEMENT, AND OF RIGHTEOUSNES IN JESUS CHRIST AND NOT IN OR BY MAN -- what the old covenant showed and forever proved.