Bible Translation Study

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DuckieLady

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NOAA had a seismograph in Jerusalem in those days?

Anyway, there definitely was an earthquake though.
You know, I don't know how they figure that out and since it's 4 AM here and I just woke up I'm just going to do the shoulder shrug dance. I did look it up there before and it was there.

I have a lot of interests but I'm not a broken rock...ologist. A rockologist. All earth sciences lead to discomfort.

Currently we're all so focused on covid as a prophetic indicator, has anyone noticed the last months figures for earthquakes? There have been a series of deep very serious earthquakes all around the Pacific and through Indonesia. So deep the damage was minimal... But concerning nevertheless. The prophetic indicator on the second coming will soon be running concurrently, with intensity and increasing frequency. We are going to be witnessing some serious crisis throughout the globe in the immediate future. Spiritual sleeping is not an option.
Don't say that... I live on the fault line next to a volcano ... None of us want any San Andreas in our lives

I wonder if Jason A on YouTube has posted anything about this lately.
He's been adding more scripture and sermons in between his videos lately.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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Why don't you start with providing definitions of
formal equivalence and dynamic equivalence rranslations?

This will help to know differences between ESV, NET., HCSB, NASB, KJV, NKJV, NRSV versus CEV, ERV, NIRV, NIV NLT.

Oz
Not sure what you mean?

Definition of words?

Seismos;A shaking, Shock, An earthquake

1. A shock, Agitation, Commotion
2. Earthquake
3. To shake Agitate
4. To shake Heave, Quake of the earth
5. To move to and fro
6. To shake oneself

If we are talking about water. Earthquake would not fit. I agree. The water were agitated. or shaken would be apt.

But to say earthquake should not be used, if that is what is being said at the cross about the rocks and graves opening up. It could very well be an earthquake
 
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Eternally Grateful

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How do we know they added words?

What's the earliest readable version we can find? The oldest version I could find is the 1599 Geneva. I can't go any further back, aside from the Codex Sinaiticus, but I've been looking for them.

Codex Sinaiticus is not very readable. It's pretty torn up and I can't read Greek anyway.
What I believe they are saying, is the oldest manuscripts have the verses in question, the the supposed "added" words found in later documents are missing.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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No plural pronouns in English?? Are these pronouns plural oe singular or plural? They, them, our

Oz
this is the issue I think

A way to look at it is to look again at peter

all of you repent, and let them be baptized

Literally in the english this is what it would say

it makes no sense when not taken in context. Who are "them"
 

Eternally Grateful

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You have presented the usual argument given against changing the word "earthquake" to "turmoil" because the tradition has been set in the translations given over many centuries.

The question I have in what is translated in Matt 28:2: -

Matt 28:2: - 2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

is How does an Angel, coming down out of heaven cause "a great earthquake." On the other hand, the people at the tomb, would have been in "great turmoil" when confronted with an Angel descending from heaven, and they would have probably run away in fear.

An earthquake was not needed to roll the stone away as we are told that the Angel was the one who rolled the stone away from the door of the tomb.

Can I rest my case with you on this point of understanding.

Shalom

Rest Your case?

I never made an argument it should not be changed. I did the opposite. I said to look at context. Then said to look at the definition of the origional word. (my response was not even concerning that verse. it was about what happened at the cross)

You should try to understand and not just make assumptions. Because you were wrong in yor assumption (you know what you do when you Assume?)

In the case of the water, Turmoil would be more applicable than an earthquake. so I would agree with you here

Please pay more attention when you respond
 

Eternally Grateful

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Modern translations are forced by copyright law to be different from all the others by about 50,000 words.

Stick to the KJV.

God word is not represented by copyright lawyers.
Thanks

But I would rather give my children and new believers they can read. Not one that they have to learn a new language in. Its to bad the KJV did not update itself to modern language, it would have been a great bible
 
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Brakelite

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You know, I don't know how they figure that out and since it's 4 AM here and I just woke up I'm just going to do the shoulder shrug dance. I did look it up there before and it was there.

I have a lot of interests but I'm not a broken rock...ologist. A rockologist. All earth sciences lead to discomfort.


Don't say that... I live on the fault line next to a volcano ... None of us want any San Andreas in our lives

I wonder if Jason A on YouTube has posted anything about this lately.
He's been adding more scripture and sermons in between his videos lately.
If you want to keep up to date with earthquakes and even predictions... Watch.
 

Mayflower

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Hello Oz, the minister of the church I was attending spoke about how he only believed English Translations that came out of a committee rather than a paraphrase English translation generated by a single person.

I smiled to myself as a committee is just as susceptible to making mistakes as a single person when creating a translation of a text written in another language, whether ancient or modern.

What hinders us from correcting our existing translations is the tradition of the translations themselves.

I provided an example with the Greek word "seismos" where I suggested that it would be better to translate this Greek word as "turmoil" rather than "earthquake" in all of the places where it is found in its many forms in the New Testament.

However, because of the tradition it will be difficult to change peoples understanding and open up some very different understanding as to what is being actually said in the Greek texts from which our translations were derived.

In Matthew 8:12, we find: -

Matthew 8:24: - 24 And suddenly a great tempest/great turmoil arose on the sea, so that the boat was covered with the waves. But He was asleep.​

If all of the occurrences of the same Greek word was translated in the same manner as in: - Matthew 8:24, 28:2, Acts 16:26, Revelation 6:12, 11:13, 11:19, 16:18, 16:18, then Matt 8 12 should have been translated as

Matthew 8:24: - 24 And suddenly a great tempest/great earthquake arose on the sea, so that the boat was covered with the waves. But He was asleep.​

For sailors who cross bars and sail in confined waters, they know that the wind plus the reflected waves can cause standing waves to occur such that they will swamp their small craft and sink it. This is the turmoil that occurs in the waves that the disciples were afraid of while Jesus was asleep in the bottom of the boat.

In other passages where G:4578 occurs, the earth shaking and rocks being split is also described and this is a great description of an actual earthquake, but in the example I gave, the centurion saw the turmoil in the people around him and felt the earth shaking, and the sun being blotted out such that there was darkness, said, "Surely this man was the Son of God." The earthquake was only of a short duration, while the turmoil that the centurion saw occurred over many hours during the crucifixion of Christ.



You have presented the usual argument given against changing the word "earthquake" to "turmoil" because the tradition has been set in the translations given over many centuries.

The question I have in what is translated in Matt 28:2: -

Matt 28:2: - 2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

is How does an Angel, coming down out of heaven cause "a great earthquake." On the other hand, the people at the tomb, would have been in "great turmoil" when confronted with an Angel descending from heaven, and they would have probably run away in fear.

An earthquake was not needed to roll the stone away as we are told that the Angel was the one who rolled the stone away from the door of the tomb.

Can I rest my case with you on this point of understanding.

Shalom

I will have to do some word studies. This is very interesting.
 
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Mayflower

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Modern translations are forced by copyright law to be different from all the others by about 50,000 words.

Stick to the KJV.

God word is not represented by copyright lawyers.

Good point.
 

Mayflower

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Thanks

But I would rather give my children and new believers they can read. Not one that they have to learn a new language in. Its to bad the KJV did not update itself to modern language, it would have been a great bible

I wonder if NKJV was supposed to be meant for that or if it is way different.
 

Mayflower

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What I believe they are saying, is the oldest manuscripts have the verses in question, the the supposed "added" words found in later documents are missing.

I thought it was saying the words were not there in the documents KJV used. That they added them, because they were doing the best they could to translate. While the later versions use different documents and could be translated easier in future times. I can see this, but I can't say for sure myself if this is true or not.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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I thought it was saying the words were not there in the documents KJV used. That they added them, because they were doing the best they could to translate. While the later versions use different documents and could be translated easier in future times. I can see this, but I can't say for sure myself if this is true or not.


The KJV uses the textus receptus, The added words are there

The other versions uses another text. The words are not written there.
 
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Truther

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The present translations are the best means for us to find out as much as we can about God and Christ and the relationship that we should have with God.

However, for example, the Story of the Minas, i.e. the secular version told to the crowds accompanying Christ on the road up from Jericho towards Jerusalem, and the Talents, i.e. the religious version told by Jesus to His disciples on the way back to Bethany after a day of teaching in the Temple, are both all about Satan and his faithful servants who will do his bidding while he is locked up in the Bottomless pit for 1,000 years from the start of the Millennium Age, which incidental is a little longer longer than 1,000 years when we add on the length of the Little while period tacked onto the end of the 1,000 years that Satan is locked up in the Bottomless Pit.

Satan is giving money, that he has been able to accumulate to himself, to his servants even now, so that they can oppress the people of the earth during the first 1,000 years of the Millennium Age. Sadly, many Christians have brought the lie of Satan that these two parables are not about him, Satan, but that they are about Christ. Many Christians have accepted the lie that they have to work very hard to being in the Kingdom of God.

From my studies, I would suggest that many of the flaws in the English Translations are associated with the prophetic portions of the scriptures with respect to the End Time.

From where I sit, the flaws in the present translations do get in the way of our relationship with God if we cannot recognise the faults/flaws in all of the English paraphrases that present exist.

Shalom

Modern translations are mere commentaries.

I don't need commentaries, but only the KJV.

I can comment to myself as I read it.
 
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Truther

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Thanks

But I would rather give my children and new believers they can read. Not one that they have to learn a new language in. Its to bad the KJV did not update itself to modern language, it would have been a great bible
They better not.

The more they "update" the KJV, the more it loses it's pureness.

Thee=the

Thou=you

Easy peasy.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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They better not.

The more they "update" the KJV, the more it loses it's pureness.

Thee=the

Thou=you

Easy peasy.
No one speaks that language, and it is more than just thee and thou. It is also the depth of the greek language, which the english language can not touch. The english language is actually a very flawed language.

I have my mothers old KJV when she died. I picked it up and tried to read it. It was very difficult. and if I did not know its "language" would be impossible for me to read/
 
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Mayflower

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The KJV uses the textus receptus, The added words are there

The other versions uses another text. The words are not written there.

Id like to go back over Canon again. Post about that on here. It was how the Bible originally was put together. I read about the guidelines. It was very interesting. I wonder if the modern translations go by this same Canon
 

Mayflower

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Modern translations are mere commentaries.

I don't need commentaries, but only the KJV.

I can comment to myself as I read it.

It is good to let the Holy Spirit do the teaching. I am sure God has spoken to me through people to though in learning to hear His voice.
 
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