Your Thoughts: 1 Thessalonians 1:5-10

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Behold

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@Behold

I've been interested following this side discussion.

I have a question for both of you, if I may . . .

IF a teacher does not have the gift of teaching from the Holy Spirit, how much does it matter if they do or don't go into the original languages, or even compare 2 translations?

. . . or . . .

IF a teacher does have the gift of teaching from the Holy Spirit, won't the Holy Spirit give the teaching with or without the original language studies?

Much love!

The "original greek"....... talking about this in public.......ITs what we call "trademen's language"...
What it does.....what it is designed to do, is influence your opinion, by presenting you with the false concept that "because i know something you dont, then im superior", which then proves you must listen.

Its like someone showing up here and declaring that God came to them, personally, and gave them a personal message for you.
In other works, its FAKERY that tries to get you to sit there with your brain turned off so that they can pump it full of their darkness.

This also works in life, where you have this trademen's language that they use on you, to confuse you and manipulate you, and rob you. $$$$$$$

For example. Lets say its the middle of July, and its really hot weather, and your AC Unit just died.
So, you call the AC man, and he comes out..
After an hour its working again, and he says....>"well, your start relay was suspect, ...so, i diagnosed it, and discovered that it had become incompatible with your unit so i exercised it, after necessary evaluation, and resolved the unit's issue that was being corrupted by this start relay".

Ok,
see that? That is the AC man, talking trademan's language, over your head, so that you can't understand what he's actually saying.
Car mechanics do this.
Doctors do this..
And why ? To manipulate you. Its the same reason that a lot of self righteous pride filled bible correctors misuse the "original greek" or the "Latin" against a REAL BIBLE while they stand in a Pulpit with a wooden Jesus Icon hanging on the wall behind them.

So what did the AC guy actually say? He said....>"the on/off switch was broken, so i put a new one in".

On/Off switch is a "start relay"...

See that?
So, you pay $150 for the "start relay", or you would have paid $15 for the On/Off Switch.

"gotcha"...

Now, its a good idea to study all you can, but its the best idea to know the truth, as its the Knowing of the Truth that sets you free, and set's your audience free.
And THAT is the goal.
To be FREE IN CHRIST, Delivered, and filled with the Spirit..and full of SOUND DOCTRINE.... and then out there doing the work for the Master, no matter where you are found.
Thats the eternal game plan.
 

marks

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Now, its a good idea to study all you can, but its the best idea to know the truth, as its the Knowing of the Truth that sets you free, and set's your audience free.
For me, the deeper examination is fruitful in arriving at the truth. And separating truth from error.

I understand there are some who misuse this. I think there's still a baby in that bathwater.

Much love!
 
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Behold

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I did not state that Christians don't need to be born again, so I don't need to reconsider it. I had stated that that we don't need to be born again in order to escape death.


So, is this Mormon or JW teaching that you are chanting for them?
Care to elaborate? AS it is not related to Paul's or any usual denomination that we think of as "protestant".

Notice you said that we dont need to be born again to escape death.
Well, sure we do.
There is Hell, and there is the Lake of fire, in context with eternal damnation, and this verse.. John 3:36.... You will go to hell if you die, not having been born again on earth.

So, you are teaching against being Born again, and you are doing it on a Christian Forum.

Not a good idea.
 

Hidden In Him

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Listen, when you have been in a water cult, since you were born, and one day you realize you are in a cult that pretends to be all about Christ, but is really completely man made and bible rejecting....... well, its not easy to stop being what you've been all your life.
It takes some backbone and some courage to admit "i was deceived", and get out of it.
Its difficult, as this is a stronghold , that for many, is 20, 30, 40+ yrs, and they LOVE their denomination..... So, to have to get away from it, is hard.
So.... you have to know, how to know the difference, between a dark light and a real Light... or you will end up in a cult, or worse, you'll end up faith destroyed

I was discussing this about another member just this morning, in fact.
If a person can't name Paul's epistles, then that is pretty strong evidence that they are living in the wrong parts of the NT, (Theologically and Spiritually)
The pursuit of Theology as discipleship, is an error.
Paul does not tell you to be a deep theologian, Paul tells you to be sure of your DOCTRINE, as that is where the heretics are found in the spiritual ditch of darkness.
Their doctrine is a cat box.
There are so many people who are drowning in theology, as that is what it does, unless its supported by a strong and deep underpinning of God's Grace.
I always tell my students and my readers to live in Hebrews 13:9.
As that verse teaches you where you are supposed to live, spiritually, and it exposes all those who didnt do that, and don't, and what they have become.

So, what do you look for in a teacher or in a pulpit?
You listen to how they present what saves you, and most especially what KEEPS you saved.

Well, we have disagreements, but that's the way it is when you are dealing with people coming from different theological perspectives. For me, the only way to hopefully cross that divide some is through an analysis of what the original languages say. But then that brings up texts, and you and I don't agree on that either.

I fear you and I may never see eye to eye on certain things as a result, but maybe the trick in our case will just be to accept what is and work around it. God forbid we ever go straight at each other, but even that isn't the end of the world if it can be set aside just as quickly.

God bless, and know that should we have strong disagreements in the future, it will not mean I don't regard you as a brother.

In Christ Jesus,
Hidden In Him
 
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Behold

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For me, the deeper examination is fruitful in arriving at the truth. And separating truth from error.
I understand there are some who misuse this. I think there's still a baby in that bathwater.

Much love!

Studying the Greek wont help you rightly divide the bible.

Studying the right bible will help you understand the truth.
Not all bibles are bibles. Some are actually able to cause you to stay confused, and are designed to do it.

See, the Devil is real. And he knows that if he can create bibles that contradict each other, or change the DOCTRINE, or water down or omit verses, then he can ruin everything......so, he did.

The devil is all about causing people to make a god out of their own opinion that they worship.

The good news..
The reason most bibles are in English, is that God understood, according to dispensations, that in the end times, the english language would be the universal language currency, and 3000 yr old Koine Greek would be nearly a dead language, of no consequence.

God is always way ahead of the game, because he wrote the rule book all the way to the end.
 

Behold

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I was discussing this about another member just this morning, in fact.


Well, we have disagreements, but that's the way it is when you are dealing with people coming from different theological perspectives. For me, the only way to hopefully cross that divide some is through an analysis of what the original languages say. But then that brings up texts, and you and I don't agree on that either.
I fear you and I may never see eye to eye on certain things as a result, but maybe the trick in our case will just be to accept what is and work around it. God forbid we ever go straight at each other, but even that isn't the end of the world if it can be set aside just as quickly.
God bless, and know that should we have strong disagreements in the future, it will not mean I don't regard you as a brother.
In Christ Jesus,
Hidden In Him

I appreciate what you wrote, thank you.

There is one faith, there is one salvation, and there is one Way to God. John 14:6

Its all the same thing, given as a gift.

Its Christ Jesus, who is God incarnate, shedding blood to reconcile the world back to God.
He literally died for the sin of the world.......all of it......
He paid for it all.
Its always paid, but its not always received, because to get it, you have to BELIEVE......and be born again.

"Jesus said....you must be born again".

God is salvation.
Jesus is the only way there.

"all that call upon the name of Jesus, shall be saved".

"to as many as believe in Jesus, God gives to them the power to BECOME the Sons of God".

To 'become a Son of God" is to be born again, as ONE.

We the born again, have been BIRTHED into GOD's Holy Spirit by the Holy Spirit.
Not by water, but by the Holy Spirit.
 
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Behold

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For me, the deeper examination is fruitful in arriving at the truth. And separating truth from error.

We know that Jesus is God.
We know that the simplicity of salvation is that God is righteousness, and we are unrighteousness, so, for us to have God's Righteousness He had to come down here to shed his blood so that what was making us unrighteous.....(sin and unbelief) could be resolved by Jesus.
Jesus accomplished this on the Cross. "it is finished". and what he accomplished is "the gift of righteousness" that makes us righteous.
But, there is more...
There is this...
""""CHRIST.....In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge"""

See that?
That is all knowledge and all wisdom, being a part of Jesus.
Jesus is not just Creator and Savior, He is all wisdom and knowledge..
That is LIGHT.
So, to get this, is to have it REVEALED.


Ok here is a bit of Christian Mysticism...
God is my Light, and I am a Light bearer. (Light bringer).... I am shedding Light all the time on this forum, and in life.
God gives "ears" to hear, Light, as that is How God speaks.
He speaks as LIGHT.
Revelation is Light being revealed.
Salvation is you becoming born again as a part of The Light.
"we are translated from darkness..........>TO LIGHT".


So, I wrote a Thread on this, a few.... but, i wont post it, i'll just teach the meat.

This Jesus, who is Creator, and all wisdom and knowledge, is God.
And we the born again are..

1.) One with God and Christ
2.) In Christ
3.) Christ IN YOU>......the hope of Glory
4.) As Jesus is, so are all the born again in this world.

So, what am i showing you.....
Its this.
Everything you want to know, Christ already knows, and He is in you.
So, you already possess all the wisdom and the knowledge and the truth, because the possessor, is in you, and you are in Christ.

What you have to discover is not found in a greek text, or necessarily written down as words of life in a bible, but rather by discerning the spiritual that is already in you, and around you.

Think about this..
When you pray, you see that prayer as going up to God.
Yet, God is right there in you.

All that wisdom and knowledge you want, is in you, because Christ is in you.
So, you have to discover how to tap into what is already living on the inside of you.

You might want to study the lives and words of Jean Guyon or Hildegard of Bingen.
Take a close look at their faith and how they thought about it...

Paul said......"as many as be perfect"..

So, that is the perfected disciple, who has become "the fullness of the stature of Christ".
You can find your way there, .......the way to do it.......is bible study and prayer and praise, and meditation.
But also, studying the lives and words of people , Saint, who lived in the past, in that elevated place of the Spirit.
They talk about it, so that you can see it.
And of course, its good to have a good teacher.


-blessings.
 
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Wrangler

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They do this by giving you the impression that the "original greek" is superior,..

Well, sort of.

There is an original language.

There are many manuscripts in this language NT Scripture was written. While there is much agreement, there are also differences. The most obvious is 3 endings to the Gospel of Mark, depending on which manuscript you are translating from.

What is not superior in the original is grammar. The original has no grammar. The most well known grammatical error is a comma placed before rather after “today” when our Lord said to the thief on the cross:

I tell you today, you will be in my Father’s kingdom.

Im not talking about language, im talking about literal, actual, extant, completed New Testaments, in Koine Greek.
There about 30, obo, of these completed manuscripts.
Only a few are accepted, as most are altered, thus, corrupted.

Now I don't know what you are talking about. Are you supposing that altered corruptions are NOT superior to unaltered originals?

Not sure why you are side stepping the point of grammar, which makes none superior to modern translations as our language uses grammar.
 

charity

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Hello @Behold,

Thank you: re. reply#120.

I have had to unlearn as much as I have learned, for which I praise God. I shall probably find that I have yet more to unlearn, and have asked God to show me if there is a 'plank' in my eye in relation to any aspect of His truth, that I may see it, and remove it, by His grace. It is so easy to see the splinter in someone else's eye, and be oblivious of the one in one's own eye, isn't it?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Behold

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Now I don't know what you are talking about. Are you supposing that altered corruptions are NOT superior to unaltered originals?
Not sure why you are side stepping the point of grammar, which makes none superior to modern translations as our language uses grammar.

Grammar corrected, would be to change the spelling of a word.
For example... the 1st KJV, was revised, into the 1611.
But this revision was not to change any of the verses, or the doctrine, but it was to update the spelling.
So, that is not a revision of the bible itself, that is a spell check.

So, there are 30 Greeks texts. 30, full New Testament's in Greek, and maybe a couple more...
Only a few are accepted by "scholarship" as "innocent of corruption".

So, when i say that there are some really bad bibles out there........its because some of them are created using the Received Text that was used to create the Authorized Version.,..the KJV.
But, the people that translated, this team....they are CULTISTS< and they changed verses, and removed words, so that THEIR bible, teaches their cult theology, but gently, so that you dont really notice it, unless you are really sensitive to the Word of God.
 

keithr

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So, is this Mormon or JW teaching that you are chanting for them?
I'm not sure what the Mormons believe, but the Jehovah's Witnesses probably believe something similar (because they are very keen on Bible study!). However, I am not, nor have I ever been a Jehovah's Witness.
Care to elaborate? As it is not related to Paul's or any usual denomination that we think of as "protestant".
I have already elaborated!

There is Hell, and there is the Lake of fire, in context with eternal damnation, and this verse.. John 3:36.... You will go to hell if you die, not having been born again on earth.
John 3:36 says, "He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him”. That's in perfect agreement with what I have stated. Christians, who believe in Jesus have eternal life, and of the rest only those that come to believe and obey Jesus during the 1,000 years of the Messiah's reign on earth will also have eternal life. Those that disobey "shall not see life", i.e. they will perish (die, symbolically represented by being thrown into the lake of fire, which is stated as being the second death).

So, you are teaching against being Born again, and you are doing it on a Christian Forum.
No, I already said I wasn't teaching against being born again! The alternatives are not being born again or death (or eternal torture as some mistakenly believe). Jesus said that Christians will need to be born again in order to see God's Kingdom, in order to sit on thrones in heaven and reign with Jesus, to be joint heirs of God with him (which Paul did teach, e.g. "and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ; if indeed we suffer with him, that we may also be glorified with him" - Romans 8:17).

(Joh 3:3) Jesus answered him, “Most certainly, I tell you, unless one is born anew, he can’t see God’s Kingdom.”
(Joh 3:7) Don’t marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born anew.’
(Joh 3:8) The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear its sound, but don’t know where it comes from and where it is going. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

The alternatives are believing in Jesus and obeying him (and therefore also believing in Yahweh and obeying him too), or death:

"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him" (John 3:16,17).

This is saying that the alternatives are eternal life or perish (eternal death), where the Greek word that is translated as "perish" is apollumi, which means to be fully destroyed, or to die. God sent Jesus so that the whole world could be saved, not just Christians! But it is dependent on believing Jesus, whether now (Christians) or after the resurrection (non Christians during the Messiah's 1,000 year reign).
 

Hidden In Him

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Hello @Behold,

Thank you: re. reply#120.

I have had to unlearn as much as I have learned, for which I praise God. I shall probably find that I have yet more to unlearn, and have asked God to show me if there is a 'plank' in my eye in relation to any aspect of His truth, that I may see it, and remove it, by His grace. It is so easy to see the splinter in someone else's eye, and be oblivious of the one in one's own eye, isn't it?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris


Yes indeed, sister. It's also not easy to keep one's mind open to new thought. Every time I read something from a completely different perspective, I sort of gasp and sit back in dread for a second or two. Sort of like, "Ok buddy. Brace yourself. Open your mind or you're never gonna get this," LoL.
 
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Behold

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No, I already said I wasn't teaching against being born again! .

Now you are denying it, so, i will quote you..

_________________________

This is from Post #103. You wrote"....'"""""You don't need to be "born again" to escape the "wages of sin" (death)"""""

__________________________

So, that is incredible heresy.
Its not just one, but its 2.
First you say that there is no need to be born again to escape the wages of sin.

So, that is a total denial of The Cross.

And your statement is denying that being Born Again, allows you to escape the wages of your sin.

So, you have denied the Cross and denied that judgement for sin is REAL.

Thats incredible heresy you are posting on a Christian Forum.
 

keithr

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Now you are denying it, so, i will quote you..

This is from Post #103. You wrote, 'You don't need to be "born again" to escape the "wages of sin" (death)'

First you say that there is no need to be born again to escape the wages of sin.
Correct. You don't seem to have understood Jesus' explanation for why you need to be born again. He said, "Unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God". He did not say "unless you are born again you will not have eternal life".

So, that is a total denial of The Cross.

No it's not! No Christian, nor any non-Christian, could be resurrected if Jesus had not provided the redemption price to justify that.


And your statement is denying that being Born Again, allows you to escape the wages of your sin.
Correct - being born again has nothing to do with your sins being forgiven. Forgiveness of sins is all due to Jesus' sacrifice. Being born again is just something that all Christians must go through before they can join Jesus in heaven.


So, you have denied the Cross and denied that judgement for sin is REAL.

No I haven't. i don't understand how you can possibly deduce that from what I wrote! How does, to paraphrase what I wrote, "believing in Jesus and obeying him means eternal life, disbelief and disobedience means eternal death", in any way deny the Cross and that judgement for sin is real?
 

VictoryinJesus

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What did Paul mean by describing these things as "great assurances," and then adding the words, "just as you know what type of men we were among you for your sakes"? What were Paul, Silas and Timothy doing among them that also gave the Thessalonians assurance the gospel was true?

3. How should we be seeking to provide similar assurances (to others) today?

I haven’t been following the thread nor read all the pages which is growing. Not because I’m not interested but because it grew before I could catch up. Someone maybe has already mentioned
Hebrews 6:9 Lexicon: But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way.


Hebrews 6:10 Lexicon: For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints.


Hebrews 6:11 Lexicon: And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end,