No authority!

[justbyfaith]

Which Protestant or protestant denomination gets to decide what is a "false doctrine" and The Church is wrong?

That will be decided by the holy scriptures.

If a doctrine is not in accordance with the scriptures, it is false doctrine.

Of course, the ones who decide what is false doctrine are those who have studied to shew themselves approved unto God, workmen that do not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

If anyone preached as sound doctrine anything that is denied by the holy scriptures, it would eventually be found out and they would be ashamed. For the scriptures contain clear and plain statements on doctrine just like you think that the church has clear and plain statements on doctrine.

The difference between you and me is that you go to documents that are based on the Bible to find your doctrine; while I go to the Bible itself.

Ever play the telephone game?

The further you get from the source, the greater the possibility of a margin of error.

 

[Marymog]

How can a study of the Scriptures be OPPOSITE to Scripture?
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth [Scripture]. (2 Tim 2:15)

Scripture interprets Scripture, so rightly dividing or interpreting Scripture is possible with the Holy Spirit as the Divine Teacher, and the believer as the one who carefully and diligently studies the Word of God. Now we come to Timothy, who represents all believers:

When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also... And that from a child thou hast known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. (2 Tim 1:5; 3:15-17)

Who taught Lois and Eunice so that they would teach Timothy from his childhood the Holy Scriptures? The Catholic Church was established around 400 AD, so who taught all the saints before that time? Do you see the fallacy of claiming that the Catholic Church has the sole authority to teach Scripture?

And when you examine the errors in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, you have to ask yourself who will teach those Catholic clerics the truth so that the CCC may be revised to properly present Gospel Truth and Bible Truth?

Even Pope Francis has no clue about some fundamentals of the faith. In Fratelli Tutti, Pope Francis makes this very erroneous statement, which is in opposition to Scripture: "...I have felt particularly encouraged by the Grand Imam Ahmad Al-Tayyeb, with whom I met in Abu Dhabi, where we declared that “God has created all human beings equal in rights, duties and dignity, and has called them to live together as brothers and sisters”.

The Pope was a party to this declaration. But since only those who are in Christ can be brothers and sisters, and since Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. are NOT in Christ, how can they live together as brothers and sisters? And since only those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ can be in Christ, the above statement is very deceptive, misleading, and unscriptural. So who will teach Francis the truth?

The letters to Timothy are pastoral letters. Do you know what that means Enoch? I suspect since you were taught by protestant men you don't.

Let me teach you: Protestantism has taught that 1 & 2 Timothy are meant for anyone that reads the bible. It is a well known fact that they are Pastoral Epistles from Paul to Timothy! They were written with the intent to instruct persons engaged in pastoral work and contain many directions for pastoral duties. They were sent, not to churches, but to office-bearers, instructing them how to behave in the house of God. Paul was giving Timothy instructions and advice for leading the church. Are you a Pastor Enoch?

If your theory (or the theory that some man taught you) was true then that means that any man that reads Scripture can rightly dividing the Word of Truth! Soooooo why do we have so many "truths" from one passage of Scripture Enoch? Is God confused or is the Protestant man who taught you confused? Conclusion: you really can't explain your theory that any man can read Scripture and come up with the truth on their own because if you could you would have done it.

Instead of defending your position you go on the attack talking about "errors in the Catechism". Soooooo the men that wrote the Catechism can't rightly divide the truth but your Protestant men who taught you can????? Weird....I thought ALL can rightly divide the word of truth?

You attack Pope Francis and you suggest that his statement was "deceptive, misleading and unscriptural [sic]. Soooo YOU don't think that all human beings have equal rights, duties and dignity? You don't think that God wants us all to "live together as brothers and sisters”. He wants us to fight with each other and hate each other??? OK....sooooo are you going to put your money where your mouth is? Are you NOT going to treat "Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc" with dignity??? Are you no longer going to treat them as your equal???

I look forward to your answer....

 

[Marymog]

That will be decided by the holy scriptures.

If a doctrine is not in accordance with the scriptures, it is false doctrine.

Of course, the ones who decide what is false doctrine are those who have studied to shew themselves approved unto God, workmen that do not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

If anyone preached as sound doctrine anything that is denied by the holy scriptures, it would eventually be found out and they would be ashamed. For the scriptures contain clear and plain statements on doctrine just like you think that the church has clear and plain statements on doctrine.

The difference between you and me is that you go to documents that are based on the Bible to find your doctrine; while I go to the Bible itself.

Ever play the telephone game?

The further you get from the source, the greater the possibility of a margin of error.

Thanks JBF,

You are talking in circles. YOU have rightly divided the word of truth 2,000 years later but the men of The Church who came up with Church doctrine 2,000 years ago....THEY didn't rightly divide the word of truth??? Because their doctrine....according to YOU... is not in accordance to Scripture....because only YOU can rightly divide the word of truth?

Sooooo instead of relying on YOU (a man) to rightly dividing the word of truth 2,000 years after Scripture was written how about if we get closer to "the source" and see what those men said?

Have you read Clement, Ignatius, Polycarp and The Didache??? Do you know who they are or what the Didache is?

Historical mary

 

[justbyfaith]

Instead of defending your position you go on the attack talking about "errors in the Catechism". Soooooo the men that wrote the Catechism can't rightly divide the truth but your Protestant men who taught you can????? Weird....I thought ALL can rightly divide the word of truth?

Certainly not ALL.

Those who have the Holy Ghost.

Many in the Catholic Church do not have the Holy Ghost, they have been led astray by doctrines of devils.

1Ti 4:1, Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2, Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3, Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Thanks JBF,

You are talking in circles. YOU have rightly divided the word of truth 2,000 years later but the men of The Church who came up with Church doctrine 2,000 years ago....THEY didn't rightly divide the word of truth??? Because their doctrine....according to YOU... is not in accordance to Scripture....because only YOU can rightly divide the word of truth?

Sooooo instead of relying on YOU (a man) to rightly dividing the word of truth 2,000 years after Scripture was written how about if we get closer to "the source" and see what those men said?

Have you read Clement, Ignatius, Polycarp and The Didache??? Do you know who they are or what the Didache is?

Historical mary

I am not going to place my trust in men but in the Holy Spirit and the scriptures that He inspired to be written.

The church fathers may have had some good things to say but they were not infallible.

Ever play the telephone game?

The further you get from the source, the greater the possibility of a margin of error.

I will take my doctrine from the source, thank you very much.

 

[theefaith]

Well, that is a flat out lie. Most Catholics DON'T have more faith in Mary than in Jesus so a correction on your part would be appreciated. Any Catholic that practices what YOU believe is true is not in compliance with Church teaching!

Keeping it real...Mary

there are 255 catholic dogmas only 7 pertain to Mary!
Not even close as usual!

 

[theefaith]

How can a study of the Scriptures be OPPOSITE to Scripture?
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth [Scripture]. (2 Tim 2:15)

Scripture interprets Scripture, so rightly dividing or interpreting Scripture is possible with the Holy Spirit as the Divine Teacher, and the believer as the one who carefully and diligently studies the Word of God. Now we come to Timothy, who represents all believers:

When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also... And that from a child thou hast known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. (2 Tim 1:5; 3:15-17)

Who taught Lois and Eunice so that they would teach Timothy from his childhood the Holy Scriptures? The Catholic Church was established around 400 AD, so who taught all the saints before that time? Do you see the fallacy of claiming that the Catholic Church has the sole authority to teach Scripture?

And when you examine the errors in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, you have to ask yourself who will teach those Catholic clerics the truth so that the CCC may be revised to properly present Gospel Truth and Bible Truth?

Even Pope Francis has no clue about some fundamentals of the faith. In Fratelli Tutti, Pope Francis makes this very erroneous statement, which is in opposition to Scripture: "...I have felt particularly encouraged by the Grand Imam Ahmad Al-Tayyeb, with whom I met in Abu Dhabi, where we declared that “God has created all human beings equal in rights, duties and dignity, and has called them to live together as brothers and sisters”.

The Pope was a party to this declaration. But since only those who are in Christ can be brothers and sisters, and since Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. are NOT in Christ, how can they live together as brothers and sisters? And since only those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ can be in Christ, the above statement is very deceptive, misleading, and unscriptural. So who will teach Francis the truth?

the church is lead into all truth by the HS jn 16:13 the church teaches all nations Matt 28:19 and is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15

the six dictators filling the death of pius 12 are imposters and with the ccc don’t teach the Christian Faith
So your at least right about that part

 

[Marymog]

Certainly not ALL.

Those who have the Holy Ghost.

Many in the Catholic Church do not have the Holy Ghost, they have been led astray by doctrines of devils.

1Ti 4:1, Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2, Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3, Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth......

Thanks for joining the convo JBF.

So you believe that "Certainly not ALL" and only "those who have the Holy Ghost" can rightly divide the word of truth. Well, I agree with you and you agree with the 2,000 year teaching of The Church. Because, as Scripture teaches, the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth.

You say "Many in the Catholic Church do not have the Holy Ghost, they have been led astray by doctrines of devils." To be fair, which I hope you will be, can you type the words "there many members of Protestant denominations that do not have the Holy Ghost and have been led astray by doctrines of devils."

Curious Mary

 

[Ronald Nolette]

where’s that in the Bible???

Where's what? that if the church proposes a teaching that is in contrast to eh clear teaching of the New TEstament, it is no longer acting as the pillar and ground of the truth?

that is found from Romans to revelation! Any part of the church be it individual or sect that strays from SCripture , in that area they are no longer a pillar and ground for truth. I am surprised you do not agree with that!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

not twelve but about 3000

there are seven sacraments or ordinances

you want a list and scripture for each one

Nope only tewo commanded by Jesus.

The other five were elevated by men and are not a sacrament in the way that teh Lords Supper and Baptism are!
If I remember my old Catholic Catechism teaching, the other five are:

Confirmation, Marriage, Holy Orders, Extreme Unction and I forget teh seventh and will not look it up to pretend to know more than I do.

Nope there were only 12 apostles. Is there 3,000 bishops in the Roman church? then there is far more than 3,000 for you must include the bishop equivalents in all Christian sects. The pope accepts them as Full brethren you must also if you wanna be a good catholic! So according to you there are thousands of "Apostles" still crafting doctrine. Even in the roman church some of these so called apostles are for gay marriage, some against. Some are pro abortion, some are not. Some are pro celibacy, some are not! No wonder why the modern Roman church is dwindling and vocations at an all time low. Nothing worse for church growth than wishy washy leadership. As for me, anything any "Christian leader" declares, if it is agianst teh clear teaching of SCripture- I will resist it as the heresy it is!

 

[Marymog]

To say that Mary is the mother of God is not exactly accurate to scripture.

It is true that Jesus is God; but He also has a human side: and Mary is the mother of the human side of Jesus (only) in the hypostatic union.

She is certainly not the mother of His Spirit; she is not the mother of the Father.

Hey JBF,

Here is a little bit of Christian history for you. Your assertion reinvents a heresy from the fifth century known as Nestorianism. That heretical teaching was addressed 1,600 years ago. Your regurgitated teaching separates the man from God.

How about a little bible study: "the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.” How was he (God) made flesh JBF? He was born of the Virgin Mary. Which means that God was born of the Blessed Virgin Mary, which means Mary is the mother of God.

I know.....not good enough for you. Here's more: “Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come unto me?” Are you, JBF, going to try and convince me that the "Lord" isn't God?

Still not good enough for ya' I'm sure so here's some more: Colossians 2:9 says “the fullness of the godhead dwells bodily.” Soooooo it’s not like part of God is in Jesus and part of God is in the Father and part of God is in the Holy Spirit. Nope JBF, all of God’s in all three. That is what the bible teaches. Why do you teach different than Scripture?

 

[theefaith]

Where's what? that if the church proposes a teaching that is in contrast to eh clear teaching of the New TEstament, it is no longer acting as the pillar and ground of the truth?

that is found from Romans to revelation! Any part of the church be it individual or sect that strays from SCripture , in that area they are no longer a pillar and ground for truth. I am surprised you do not agree with that!

there can be no real such a thing since are inspired and God breathed
Only misconceptions and misunderstanding

 

[theefaith]

Nope only tewo commanded by Jesus.

The other five were elevated by men and are not a sacrament in the way that teh Lords Supper and Baptism are!
If I remember my old Catholic Catechism teaching, the other five are:

Confirmation, Marriage, Holy Orders, Extreme Unction and I forget teh seventh and will not look it up to pretend to know more than I do.

Nope there were only 12 apostles. Is there 3,000 bishops in the Roman church? then there is far more than 3,000 for you must include the bishop equivalents in all Christian sects. The pope accepts them as Full brethren you must also if you wanna be a good catholic! So according to you there are thousands of "Apostles" still crafting doctrine. Even in the roman church some of these so called apostles are for gay marriage, some against. Some are pro abortion, some are not. Some are pro celibacy, some are not! No wonder why the modern Roman church is dwindling and vocations at an all time low. Nothing worse for church growth than wishy washy leadership. As for me, anything any "Christian leader" declares, if it is agianst teh clear teaching of SCripture- I will resist it as the heresy it is!

Confessions of sins Jn 20:21-23

 

[justbyfaith]

Thanks for joining the convo JBF.

So you believe that "Certainly not ALL" and only "those who have the Holy Ghost" can rightly divide the word of truth. Well, I agree with you and you agree with the 2,000 year teaching of The Church. Because, as Scripture teaches, the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth.

You say "Many in the Catholic Church do not have the Holy Ghost, they have been led astray by doctrines of devils." To be fair, which I hope you will be, can you type the words "there many members of Protestant denominations that do not have the Holy Ghost and have been led astray by doctrines of devils."

Curious Mary

The doctrines of devils that I was mainly speaking of were the ones spoken of in the scripture that you ignored: that of forbidding to marry; a doctrine which is prevalent in the Catholic Church but which I do not see in many Protestant circles.

Hey JBF,

Here is a little bit of Christian history for you. Your assertion reinvents a heresy from the fifth century known as Nestorianism. That heretical teaching was addressed 1,600 years ago. Your regurgitated teaching separates the man from God.

How about a little bible study: "the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.” How was he (God) made flesh JBF? He was born of the Virgin Mary. Which means that God was born of the Blessed Virgin Mary, which means Mary is the mother of God.

I know.....not good enough for you. Here's more: “Who am I that the mother of my Lord should come unto me?” Are you, JBF, going to try and convince me that the "Lord" isn't God?

Still not good enough for ya' I'm sure so here's some more: Colossians 2:9 says “the fullness of the godhead dwells bodily.” Soooooo it’s not like part of God is in Jesus and part of God is in the Father and part of God is in the Holy Spirit. Nope JBF, all of God’s in all three. That is what the bible teaches. Why do you teach different than Scripture?

Not different than what is taught in scripture, but:

God the Father is an eternal Spirit (John 4:23-24) who dwells in eternity (Isaiah 57:15).

He was not born of flesh except in the Person of the Son.

In the Person of the Father, He does not find His origins in Mary's womb; except by virtue of the fact that Jesus is the Father in His Spirit.

But I am saying that the eternal Spirit who inhabits eternity was not born of a virgin as He exists as an eternal Spirit in eternity.

He is completely self-existent.

And in that sense, Mary is not the "mother of God."

In that, there are distinctions in the Trinity.

And in that, Mary is not "the mother of the Father" (the 1st Person of the Trinity, that Person who dwells in eternity as a Spirit without flesh).

 

[theefaith]

Thanks for joining the convo JBF.

So you believe that "Certainly not ALL" and only "those who have the Holy Ghost" can rightly divide the word of truth. Well, I agree with you and you agree with the 2,000 year teaching of The Church. Because, as Scripture teaches, the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth.

You say "Many in the Catholic Church do not have the Holy Ghost, they have been led astray by doctrines of devils." To be fair, which I hope you will be, can you type the words "there many members of Protestant denominations that do not have the Holy Ghost and have been led astray by doctrines of devils."

Curious Mary

marriage is not forbidden I was married in the church for 25 yrs?

just cos a man chooses to sacrifice a lower good for a higher good or for the sake of the gospel does not make the church fill your pet verse

 

[theefaith]

There are rites in the church that have married priests
It’s a discipline not doctrine

 

[justbyfaith]

marriage is not forbidden I was married in the church for 25 yrs?

just cos a man chooses to sacrifice a lower good for a higher good or for the sake of the gospel does not make the church fill your pet verse

Marriage is forbidden to those who would be in the ministry as a priest, bishop, or pope, is that not true?

 

[justbyfaith]

There are rites in the church that have married priests
It’s a discipline not doctrine

Such do not have the same prestige and level of authority as priests; they are considered more to be like deacons.

 

[justbyfaith]

your pet verse

No; that is probably one of my least favorite and least dwelt upon verses in all of holy scripture. Because it is not pertinent to my life.

 

[theefaith]

Marriage is forbidden to those who would be in the ministry as a priest, bishop, or pope, is that not true?

no not true, there are rites hat have married priests
So your pigeon hole verse won’t work
It refers to Essenes and cathars but not the holy church founded by Christ on Peter

 

[theefaith]

Such do not have the same prestige and level of authority as priests; they are considered more to be like deacons.

no equal