Did Jesus Go To Hell?

[Phoneman777]

Me personally I don't really care when I go to Heaven if it's immediately after death or not since I won't know the difference anyways. I'll just be really happy whenever I get to be with Jesus either way. (And I'm not really sure what I believe anymore about that lol)

Hi, there's actually grave implications for what we believe happens to our loved ones. If we think there is consciousness in death, then we may be opening ourselves to deception by what we think are "spirits of our loved ones" appearing to us and telling us things.

As one who knows beyond any shadow of doubt the Bible says there's no such thing, I am certain that any spirit appearing to me is a demonic deception. Genesis 2:7 KJV holds the key as to what happened to make us live, and thus what happens to us when we die.

 

[Phoneman777]

FAQ: In standard Bibles; Jesus told one of his fellow prisoners that they
would be in paradise the very day of their deaths (Luke 23:43).

No commas in the originals, so "today" is either modifying the verb that precedes or follows. It's modifying the preceding "I say" and not the preceding "will be" because the one makes sense, while the other causes total confusion because Jesus said on Sunday He hadn't been to paradise (more on that).

"Today" in the OT/NT is found modifying the verb that follows only about 50 times, but the verb that precedes almost 180 times. It was a common, Biblical way of emphasizing the certainty of the thing that was being spoken, which is what Jesus was doing.

IOW, He said, "I say to you today while I'm hanging here looking like I can't save anybody, you will be with me in paradise". Even the thief didn't expect to go to paradise that day because he said to Jesus, "Remember me when you come into Thy kingdom" which is in harmony with is at the last day when Jesus said over and over He would raise up the dead saints, not that Friday.

Paradise is structured such that its elements exist in more than one place.There's a section of it in the netherworld (Luke 16:19-31)

Luke 16 says the Rich Man is in Hades, not paradise, and Lazarus is in "Abraham's bosom", two highly symbolic elements of a highly symbolic passage that has nothing to do with what happens when we die, but the interpretation of which is a warning to the Jews to get their act together before it's too late.

another in a secret region called the third heaven (2Cor 12:2-4)

There's only THREE heavens God's Bible knows about, the First one is where "the birds of the heavens" fly, the Second is the starry heavens of the constellations, and the Third Heaven is, of course, the place where God's throne is, where the Tree of Life is, where the Paradise of God is, where the Temple of God in Heaven is, etc.

and yet another situated with God. (Rev 2:7)

That's the Third Heaven.

 

[Grailhunter]

Hi, there's actually grave implications for what we believe happens to our loved ones. If we think there is consciousness in death, then we may be opening ourselves to deception by what we think are "spirits of our loved ones" appearing to us and telling us things.

As one who knows beyond any shadow of doubt the Bible says there's no such thing, I am certain that any spirit appearing to me is a demonic deception. Genesis 2:7 KJV holds the key as to what happened to make us live, and thus what happens to us when we die.

LOL Well were Moses and Elijah demonic spirits?

 

[Phoneman777]

LOL Well were Moses and Elijah demonic spirits?

Elijah never died, so there's no question it was he in his glorified body, which he no doubt recieved when he was taken up to heaven, appearing to Jesus, right or wrong?

There was a "dispute" about the body of Moses, right? Why would Satan care about a dead body that he can't possess, tempt, harass, etc.? Obviously, the dispute was over resurrecting him, and likely due to Satan arguing that Moses was guilty of murder, etc. God rebuked the devil, resurrected Moses, and he appeared, too, in his glorified body with Elijah to Jesus. We know Moses was not a "spirit" because dead means dead, not "alive on another plain of existence". No such thing as "consciousness in death".

 

[Grunt Hemlock]

the concept of Soul Sleep makes me wanna upchuck

 

[Grailhunter]

Elijah never died, so there's no question it was he in his glorified body, which he no doubt recieved when he was taken up to heaven, appearing to Jesus, right or wrong?

There was a "dispute" about the body of Moses, right? Why would Satan care about a dead body that he can't possess, tempt, harass, etc.? Obviously, the dispute was over resurrecting him, and likely due to Satan arguing that Moses was guilty of murder, etc. God rebuked the devil, resurrected Moses, and he appeared, too, in his glorified body with Elijah to Jesus. We know Moses was not a "spirit" because dead means dead, not "alive on another plain of existence". No such thing as "consciousness in death".

Either way not being an expert on the "spirit world" but I have seen ghosts. When you say that when people see spirits of relatives that it might be demonic, I think you will find some push back on that. And to jog your memory...After Christ's resurrection..Matthew 27:52-53 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

 

[liafailrock]

@Devin Wintch, mind quoting your Bible verses again and explain what the first one you quoted was referring to? Now for everybody who isn't in on this conversation of course Jesus didn't go to Hell because He deserved it, the argument is whether or not the Bible says that He went to Hell on our behalves when He died on the cross for our sins.

If he went there on our behalf, then he'd still be there if the cost of finite sinning is eternal life in hell. Otherwise the price for sin would not be paid. But if the penalty for sin is death, he did that much for us. But not so much punishment (rather a propitiation) rather than Adam's race dying so that by resurrection God could make a new race fashioned after Christ (aka a new creation). So his death and resurrection is the fix for us just dying which is what we all will do anyway but without hope (and gone forever) if Jesus did not do the same and resurrect.

 

[Nancy]

To which "hell" do you refer? If you mean, "the grave" or "the place of the dead" where the man Jesus did "sleep the sleep of death", though His divinity did not die, of course.

If you mean "hell" as in the "fiery, burning, blazing" hell of "gehenna", that isn't burning yet:

"...and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment, to be punished." 2 Peter 2:9 KJV

Hey @Phoneman777
Nice to see you on here, been awhile bro! All good?

 

[Grailhunter]

Elijah never died, so there's no question it was he in his glorified body, which he no doubt recieved when he was taken up to heaven, appearing to Jesus, right or wrong?

There was a "dispute" about the body of Moses, right? Why would Satan care about a dead body that he can't possess, tempt, harass, etc.? Obviously, the dispute was over resurrecting him, and likely due to Satan arguing that Moses was guilty of murder, etc. God rebuked the devil, resurrected Moses, and he appeared, too, in his glorified body with Elijah to Jesus. We know Moses was not a "spirit" because dead means dead, not "alive on another plain of existence". No such thing as "consciousness in death".

Elijah definitely went somewhere and it could have been heaven...the biblical designation of heaven can just be sky...and the status of his body or the transformation of his body is not defined by the Bible. I have no problems with speculation to a degree but the phrase "there's no question" buddy there is questions.

 

[justbyfaith]

Who did the actual preaching? Noah, a preacher of righteousness,

Jesus did the actual preaching, to the spirits in prison (hell) when He was in the heart of the earth.

 

[kcnalp]

Yes and in the bible Jesus can be found sitting and eating and drinking with the sinners. Jesus went to the sinners to preach to them, which is what the bible says and why Jesus went to spirit prison to teach to them.

Are you saying Jesus preached to people in Hell? If someone goes Hell it's too late.

 

[Brakelite]

the concept of Soul Sleep makes me wanna upchuck

I understand. Truth has a habit of upsetting people's equilibrium.

 

[Grunt Hemlock]

Eph 4:9

(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

HADES when Jesus went there was still as it was in the parable of Luke 16 - Did He preach to those in Torments and say "Sorry - you are staying here" - or did He preach to those in Abraham's Bosom and say "Come on - time to go!" and take them with him to heaven (This is known as THE HARROWING OF HELL)

 

[Grunt Hemlock]

So good guys and bad guys BOTH used to be in HADES - exactly as pictured in Luke 16 - Jesus would not tell a parable that didn't picture things truthfully

rich man - beggar Lazarus - Abraham - all conscious and able to do things/speak etc

Savvy?

 

[Brakelite]

Jesus did the actual preaching, to the spirits in prison (hell) when He was in the heart of the earth.

How does the spirit of man hear Him when his ears are rotting in the grave? You need to convince me that man still lives on in a conscious fashion without a resurrection, before convincing me that Jesus preached in person to people who lived in the time of Noah. You would also have to explain why them, and not those who lived in the time of Sodom? Or any other time in history? I thought God was no respecter of persons?

 

[justbyfaith]

How does the spirit of man hear Him when his ears are rotting in the grave? You need to convince me that man still lives on in a conscious fashion without a resurrection, before convincing me that Jesus packed in person to people who lived in the time of Noah. You would also have to explain why them, and not those who lived in the time of Sodom? Or any other time in history? I thought God was no respecter of persons?

Why don't you ask the Holy Spirit, who inspired that scripture to be written? I think also that the passage in question teaches us that man still lives on in a conscious fashion without a resurrection.

 

[Brakelite]

Why don't you ask the Holy Spirit, who inspired that scripture to be written? I think also that the passage in question teaches us that man still lives on in a conscious fashion without a resurrection.

No. I'm asking you to defend your belief.
I've already offered what I believe the holy Spirit was saying. That through the spirit of Christ Noah preached. That's what the scripture says if you read it without a preconceived bias... And it's in harmony with logic, common sense, and the rest of scripture.

 

[justbyfaith]

No. I'm asking you to defend your belief.
I've already offered what I believe the holy Spirit was saying. That through the spirit of Christ Noah preached. That's what the scripture says if you read it without a preconceived bias... And it's in harmony with logic, common sense, and the rest of scripture.

What belief is that?

I have no vested interest in defending anything I have said recently within this thread; for I do not believe that these doctrines have any bearing on salvation.

 

[Brakelite]

What belief is that?

I have no vested interest in defending anything I have said recently within this thread; for I do not believe that these doctrines have any bearing on salvation.

This one...

Jesus did the actual preaching, to the spirits in prison (hell) when He was in the heart of the earth.

 

[Grailhunter]

How does the spirit of man hear Him when his ears are rotting in the grave? You need to convince me that man still lives on in a conscious fashion without a resurrection, before convincing me that Jesus preached in person to people who lived in the time of Noah. You would also have to explain why them, and not those who lived in the time of Sodom? Or any other time in history? I thought God was no respecter of persons?

Backlit you might consider starting a thread on this, it is an interesting topic. A lot of it is belief driven.
You are pointing out those in the OT, like Noah, what happed to them. The Hebrews believed in a spirit level known as Shoal but this can get equated to the grave. Did Shoal exist....does it still exist? Is there anything in the Bible that says that Shoal ceased to exist?
Of course you have the medium talking to the departed Samuel. Where was Samuel?
Then on the other hand, Christ talked to Elijah and Moses. Where were they? Did He wake them up? Did they go back to sleep?
But talking to the departed is discouraged.
Of course then there is the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Is it completely metaphorical?
Then at Christ's resurrection you have those that rose from their graves and the Bible describes them as bodies and saints. Where did these bodies go? What happened to them? Did they go back to the graves?
Hopefully these bodies were restored and not looking like Michael Jackson's Thriller video.
On one hand the NT talks about the saints that are asleep....who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him. What does waking up feel like?
Then the Bible says that...Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and will come out: those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the bad deeds to a resurrection of judgment. Is it the decayed bodies that hear His voice or the souls? Are the souls in the graves? Where are they?
Some believe in the unconscious state of the souls...unconscious where?
But how will the end times resurrection look like? Will they be digging their way out of their coffins? What will they look like? Will they materialize above their graves...Are the bodies going to be walking to the sight of Judgement? Or materialize before Christ? Are the souls in the graves with the bodies? Do the souls come from somewhere else to be placed in new bodies?
Then there is the rapture which appears to be an aerial phenomenon.

So many things to discuss.