Sign Gifts Semi-Safe House

[amadeus]

Really?
A pastor telling me to leave "his" church for having dinner with people from another church.... wow
That would be a bit much for me.

I am with you on this!

 

[marksman]

I can go along with falling down under the influence of the Spirit if it is a one-time event that sets a person free from a bondage, or is a life changing event. But when it happens to the same people every time they come forward for prayer, then I have serious doubts about it being of the Spirit, instead it would very well be of the flesh.

I would not deny that is possible. One can make a practice of anything if one is determined to do so. What needs to happen is for the person doing the praying to discern what is going on. There have been times when people have come forward for prayer and I detected that there was no life in what they were asking for. That usually means nothing is going to happen.

 

[marksman]

It actually called a root of bitterness, and it can be rooted out only through deliverance through a well-experienced deliverance ministry, and not just falling down backwards after a 10 second prayer at the altar call in a meeting.

That has not been my experience.

 

[marksman]

The problem with Pentecostals and Charismatics is that they treat everything supernatural and every manifestation as coming from the Holy Spirit. It seems that there is little or no perception that a manifestation could come from the flesh or even a demonic kundalini spirit.

The Scripture says to test all things and hold to that which is good. We have to ask about what is the spiritual outcome of a physical or sensual manifestation? Does it reflect the fruit of the Spirit, especially self-control, and does it bring a person closer in their heart to Christ? Those are the important questions about any form of falling backwards, shaking, jerking, uncontrolled laughter, public tongues without interpretation.

If you are a visiting speaker, it is sometimes difficult to determine outcomes as you are here to day and gone tomorrow. As I have to use faith when praying for people, I continue to use faith for the outcome, which is not in my hands.

 

[marksman]

Here is a story for you. A pentecostal church moved into town (they were already established elsewhere) It did not have a very good reputation with some weird doctrines. However, I decided to take a look. They held a Sunday meeting once a month and a weeknight meeting every week in a home.

At the weeknight meeting I noticed that the same thing happened every week. Start with singing. Then the women gave a message in tongues, usually the same women and the men interpreted. All pretty wishy washy and nothing of substance. The the leader would preach. We finished off with a song and then had supper. That was the best bit.

I noticed that everyone sat in the same seat every week. A classic example of how to kill a mockingbird.

 

[Taken]

Tongues;

I believe "Tongues" has multiple meanings...
But modernly seems to land on the blurting out "the sound" of "gibberish" in some churches.

From my study of Scriptures;
Tongues, were different "languages".
For Example: (in Brief)

The Apostles Traveling, to foreign cities, as they were sent out, often had crowds standing to listen. BY THEM fulfilling their commission to travel, to speak, the Holy Spirit gave them the power to Speak in Foreign Languages, that foreign listeners could understand in THEIR native tongue.
(More modernly people study to learn multiple languages, or have an interpreter, onhand who is skilled in duel languages TO "instantly" interpret.)

When we speak to babies and little children All language is foreign to them. We interpret "immediately" in a few simple words they have learned, as well by sight and touch, Showing them what is meant.

When at times we pray to God...we know we need something, but can not find the words to express exactly what we need. We may sigh and groan...(and Trust He knows our need)...not unlike a baby or animal CAN groan, sigh, wimper...and we can know their need.

A Paster or Congregant blurting out "gibberish", in the middle of a Sermon... appears to me a Learned and acceptable behavior.
Waiting for "someone" to interpret...is able to be Verified...HOW?

And while "waiting" for the interpretation of that blurt out... Are you actually listening and absorbing the Continuing Sermon...or keeping your thoughts focused on guessing, wondering, waiting for the blurt out meaning to be revealed?

Just saying, while in many churches that is presented as a Holy spiritual thing...that seems more of a distraction than "edifying" by hearing Gods Word, in your language...
And the opposing...immediate interpretation or Waiting and wondering.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Here is a story for you. A pentecostal church moved into town (they were already established elsewhere) It did not have a very good reputation with some weird doctrines. However, I decided to take a look. They held a Sunday meeting once a month and a weeknight meeting every week in a home.

At the weeknight meeting I noticed that the same thing happened every week. Start with singing. Then the women gave a message in tongues, usually the same women and the men interpreted. All pretty wishy washy and nothing of substance. The the leader would preach. We finished off with a song and then had supper. That was the best bit.

I noticed that everyone sat in the same seat every week. A classic example of how to kill a mockingbird.

Think that appears somewhat as hinging on early teachings that God is "mysterious"...
And somewhat trying to mimic the "mysteriousness".

However, while in ancient days God was mysterious...not unlike WE Teach little children...little bits of information at a time, and Direct them...

However...4,000 years later, adults are "supposed" to have grown, learned, experienced...and opened their ears to the "mysteries" whereby Jesus has filled in, uncovered, revealed the missing "knowledge", NOT Afforded all ancient men.

Apparently the food didn't hold much mystery...

Remember going to a friends party, food spread on a table ...asked what is "this"...
Host Didn't want to say. Try a TASTE. I took a bit, it tasted different and not bad. Had some more. After everyone ate, the host revealed the two main ingredients were ground beef and Grape Jelly.... ooh gag, that "sounds" awful! LOL.

 

[Grunt Hemlock]

Use the term "gibberish" - go on IGNORE

 

[lforrest]

Has anyone had like daydreams? I started having something lately I can't label as a vision in front of my eyes, or like a dream at night. It is like flashes in my head, or set on my mind as being from God. I call it daydreams.

Like yesterday had a flash of a girl in my mind about 6 years old. She had black, curly hair in a pony tail and was sitting in the middle of the park.

I think it actually is hinting of my daughter's personality when she gets a little older, but I am not really sure. But it isn't something I can downright name as a vision, because it just came in my mind, but felt more uncontrolled, if that makes sense. That hasnt been the only one. Im just not sure what to think about them yet, because before I was saved, Id have daydreams all the time. They did not feel like this though. They felt demonic and were completely different.

An image like that helped me avoid an accident once. I saw an image for but a flash while driving and knew exactly what was going to happen, then I avoided it.

I figured it a word of knowledge, because it was so fast and imparted knowledge.

 

[Triumph1300]

A Paster or Congregant blurting out "gibberish", in the middle of a Sermon

I think one should be careful not to use the word "gibberish".
Just saying.

 

[Grunt Hemlock]

every thread on Tongues soon has the word GIBBERISH appearing from the naysayers

 

[Taken]

I think one should be careful not to use the word "gibberish".
Just saying.

Gibberish simply means Unintelligable talk.

 

[Triumph1300]

Gibberish simply means Unintelligable talk.

I know.
That why I told to be careful the way you talk about tongues.

 

[Taken]

I know.
That why I told to be careful the way you talk about tongues.

Okie dokie. Maybe a touchy subject. HAVE heard people say they do that, but little in depth on the topic.

 

[Berserk]

Further to my previous post about the proper use of the gifts and the use of "thus says the Lord" as inserting inappropriate authority into a prophecy making it difficult for others to judge it.


If a person comes to be and says, "thus says the Lord", or "I sense that...", I immediately respond by saying, "I will wait until the Lord speaks to me directly to confirm what you sense that you are hearing from the Lord." In this way, I am protecting myself against a divination spirit imbedded in a prophetic word.

When I spoke in tongues at age 16, I was unknowingly also given the gift of "the word of knowledge." For example, I was Best Man in Dallas's wedding. After the honeymoon, he invited me over for dinner. After dinner, he, his wife, and I retired to his basement to play ping pong. All was well until Dallas told me he was going deer hunting the next day. I suddenly sensed his skeleton and knew he would be killed in an accident if he went. But when I warned him of this, he accused me of being opposed to deer hunting. I denied this, but he persisted in accusing me of this attitude. As I predicted he was killed when his snowmobile hit a bump and his gun discharged into his shoulder. He bled to death. Since then, I have had many words of knowledge and many death premonitions, all of which came true. Never have I have I had a false alarm! So in my view, your attitude, if widely shared, puts lives in danger.

 

[Triumph1300]

I've heard recently that the Assemblies of God had "voted out" speaking in tongues.
Not sure if this is true.

But I do know for sure that the PAOC (Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada)) don't preach much about it.
I attended a PAOC church a few times last year and there was no speaking in tongues.
Nothing about waiting upon the power from up high, as Jesus commanded.
During the early 1980's there was a lot of tongue speaking in PAOC churches.

The only ones locally where I live, speaking in tongues is the UPC.

 

[Grunt Hemlock]

I had also "heard" that AOG "toned down" their involvement with Tongues - but never saw anything form an AoG source confrming anything of the kind.

 

[Triumph1300]

So in my view, your attitude, if widely shared, puts lives in danger.

Agreed.
Never ignore the Holy Spirit.
And don't grieve the Spirit.

 

[Triumph1300]

I found this elsewhere, I copied and pasted:

It's been an issue inside the Assemblies of God denomination concerning speaking in tongues. There was a group of younger ministers that sought to "fight" the long-held doctrinal stance that the baptism with the Holy Ghost is always evidenced by speaking with other tongues. Up until like a decade or so ago, the Assemblies of God had their big conference and reinstated the position that a Christian must speak with other tongues in order to have received the Holy Ghost.

It's a requirement for their ministers, evangelists, and for anyone they ordain to have experience the baptism with the Holy Ghost, evidenced by speaking with other tongues. A lot of their churches on an individual level have moved away from this position overall. They don't typically place a strong emphasis on the baptism with the Holy Ghost, but tend to align with a more evangelical, semi-charismatic doctrine.

 

[Taken]

every thread on Tongues soon has the word GIBBERISH appearing from the naysayers

Well sure...but you can jump in and identify the language.