Jesus Christ The Great I AM

[friend of]

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: GOD was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. (KJV)

Would anyone dare take this passage out of Holy Scripture? I shudder to think they might.

 

[101G]

@Michiah-Imla. let me ask you this then, in John 1:1 the Word was "WITH" God, correct? ok, else where when use in the Godhead, is it the same "YES", listen, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." now tell us Michiah-Imla, is the "First" here in Isaiah 41:4 is a separate and distinct PERSON, notice I said, "PERSON", from the "LAST"?
remember "WITH" is used. so are the "First" and WITH the "Last", are these two PERSONS? yes or no?

will be looking for your answer.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Michiah-Imla]

1 Timothy 3:16 of course

It says God was manifested in the flesh, not that he came in the flesh. And some corrupted versions just say “He who” was manifested in the flesh.

God was manifested through Christ, He was not Christ.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@Michiah-Imla. let me ask you this then, in John 1:1 the Word was "WITH" God, correct? ok, else where when use in the Godhead, is it the same "YES", listen, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." now tell us Michiah-Imla, is the "First" here in Isaiah 41:4 is a separate and distinct PERSON, notice I said, "PERSON", from the "LAST"?
remember "WITH" is used. so are the "First" and WITH the "Last", are these two PERSONS? yes or no?

will be looking for your answer.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

The identifying expression “The first and the last” is used to identify both God and Christ.

And all those scriptures are excellent in showing that Christ is in the Godhead in some mysterious way.

But I’m not arguing against Christ being God, I’m saying that scripture never makes this a condition for salvation and forgiveness of sins; That’s all.

And there is no scripture that refutes this.

 

[justbyfaith]

I, rather responsibly and competently, refuted your interpretations of John 8:58 and John 18:1-12, or at least gave a viably alternative meaning to the text.

There is always a viably alternate meaning to the text; which if you take as being the reality you will be gambling on eternity and if you lose, you lose everything.

How much better to believe the interpretation that if you obey and follow, there is no chance of losing your soul in eternity?

Especially with John 8:58, this is the determined case. For in direct context of John 8:58 is John 8:24; which tells us rather clearly that the doctrine in question is essential to salvation. I suppose that you can believe a viable alternative to that interpretation; but if you do so and are wrong, you have gambled your eternity on the accurateness of that interpretation and lost.

It should be clear that the Pharisees understood Jesus' statement in JOhn 8:58 as being a claim to Deity.

For they picked up stones to stone Him twice afterwards; and when asked why by Him, they said, "because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."

Clear as day.

But if there is a viable alternative to the clear meaning of these scriptures, it is only an adversity to the true interpretation that would lead a person to believe in that alternative.

Therefore this doctrine of the Deity of Christ is a heart issue and not an intellectual one.

 

[justbyfaith]

So, the Jews were accusing Jesus of "making yourself a god", not "the God" or God Almighty, for John 10:33-36 accurately reads: "The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy; for you, although being a man, make yourself a god.” Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”’? If he called ‘gods’ (or apostate judges of ancient Israel) those against whom the word of God came—and yet the scripture cannot be nullified—do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘ You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?"(New World Translation)

So, Jesus cleared up any misconception that he was "God", by plainly telling the Jews that he was "God's Son", not God. Now, why is it that hardly no one does any serious reading or research into what the Bible really teaches ?

by that you mean what the New World Translation teaches.

No thanks, I'll stick with my kjv.

Do yourself a favour and google "Watchtower false prophecies"

Because if the Watchtower society is a false prophet, then its translation is not trustworthy.

And then at John 5:18, biased readers do not reason on that verse, but rather are looking for anything they can find to support the "Holy Trinity", which the Bible does not support. For example, the Jews accused Jesus of "breaking the Sabbath", but did Jesus break the Sabbath ? No.

But in the minds of the Jews, he did, so what other accusation that the Jews made was wrong ? That "not only was he breaking the Sabbath but he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God." It was the Jews, not Jesus, who said that by "calling God his own Father, (Jesus made) himself equal to God", that was a lie.(see John 7:16, 17; 8:28, 29; 14:1, 28; 17:3; 1 Cor 8:6; Rev 3:14)

Actually, in John 5:18, the fact that Jesus was equal with God is the estimation of the apostle John under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, if you look at it honestly.

Show me where believing Jesus is God is a condition of salvation in scripture.

John 8:24.

 

[DNB]

There is always a viably alternate meaning to the text; which if you take as being the reality you will be gambling on eternity and if you lose, you lose everything.

How much better to believe the interpretation that if you obey and follow, there is no chance of losing your soul in eternity?

Especially with John 8:58, this is the determined case. For in direct context of John 8:58 is John 8:24; which tells us rather clearly that the doctrine in question is essential to salvation. I suppose that you can believe a viable alternative to that interpretation; but if you do so and are wrong, you have gambled your eternity on the accurateness of that interpretation and lost.

It should be clear that the Pharisees understood Jesus' statement in JOhn 8:58 as being a claim to Deity.

For they picked up stones to stone Him twice afterwards; and when asked why by Him, they said, "because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."

Clear as day.

But if there is a viable alternative to the clear meaning of these scriptures, it is only an adversity to the true interpretation that would lead a person to believe in that alternative.

Therefore this doctrine of the Deity of Christ is a heart issue and not an intellectual one.

I already explained both John 8:58 & John 18:1-12, like I said, in an extremely competent and viable manner - viable meaning that you & the other guy did not. That was my implication when I said viable, meaning, BGTF did not give a conclusive (or even viable) interpretation.

Now, JBF, you incorrectly quoted the Pharisees reaction and comment to John 8:58, you conflated two disparate verses. Was that an act of desperation, or an oversight?

 

[101G]

The identifying expression “The first and the last” is used to identify both God and Christ.

first ERROR, there is only one "FIRST", not TWO. see you tried to hid the Fact by saying, "GOD", well is not Jesus the Christ is God in flesh?
so your assessment is incorrect. and two, if what you said is true, (which it is not), but, if, if, if, it was true, then you have two Almighties. as you say God and Jesus christ, for the Lord Jesus is the Almighty, and you're saying that God is also... well that's two almighties you have there, which means that by definition that's polytheistic. and that's anti-bible.

And all those scriptures are excellent in showing that Christ is in the Godhead in some mysterious way.

no, those scriptures are FACT, that Jesus is the ONLY one in the Godhead... and the Mystery you say concering the Godhead, well it's no mystery at all. the Godhead is revealed in "Ordinal", as in First, and Last, which is the plurality of God as the H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') in NTURE, and the H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) in PERSON.
I suggest you re-read what I just said, which explain the mystery of the Godhead. but it is for eyes to see, and for ears to hear.

But I’m not arguing against Christ being God, I’m saying that scripture never makes this a condition for salvation and forgiveness of sins; That’s all.

Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

101G
The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[justbyfaith]

Now, JBF, you incorrectly quoted the Pharisees reaction and comment to John 8:58, you conflated two disparate verses. Was that an act of desperation, or an oversight?

The verses are in the same topical context (see 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv)).

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

What are you talking about?

This scripture mentions NOTHING of Jesus being God.

And as for your erroneous assertion that “the first” and “the last” are different in some way:

Revelation 1:11
I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last

What is it with people that go waaay over board in Bible study. Your sectarian belief system may have you in an unreachable place.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

those scriptures are FACT, that Jesus is the ONLY one in the Godhead...

For crying out loud!

Do you read the Bible within its OWN context anymore???

Colossians 2:2
...to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ

 

[Taken]

Jesus Christ The Great I AM
OP ^

Amen!

Welcome to the forum.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Jesus Christ The Great I AM
OP ^

Amen!

Welcome to the forum.

Glory to God,
Taken

Who told you that?

Not the word of God.

The Bible says:

John 1:29
...Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

 

[Taken]

God is One God.

Concerning God...
Names, Titles, Descriptions, Locations, Particular Works, etc........
IS revealed Scriptural INFORMATiON.

Understanding is ... Knowing all the Information IS about One God, regardless of where He is or What He is doing.

(Even we), one individual has multiple names, titles, descriptions, locations, particular works, etc.)

If you are a Doctor, people call you Doctor in your office or hospital, but no one at your home calls you Doctor.

At a family gathering you may be called Dad and a minute later called Son and introduced to a cousins new husband, as Robert Jacobs, Bob for short, And President of the PTA and CEO of a potato Chip factory.

You may be called Mr., Coach, Neighbor, Friend, Teacher at your regular work...
But called Sir, Man, in a grocery store.

You may be in Canada one day and Africa another day, yet facetime talking to someone in India.

You may be walking on dirt, flying in the air, scuba diving in the ocean...all in one day.

Observing all one Earthingly can be and do...and knowing what we can do is so "minimal" compared to God Almighty...
Should not confuse us by all the terms Scripturally Revealed to us.

Just sayin...

Taken

 

[Taken]

Who told you that?

Not the word of God.

The Bible says:

John 1:29
...Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Isa 48:
[12] Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

Isa 51:
[12] I, even I, am he that comforteth you...

John 13:
[19] Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.

John 10:
[30] I and my Father are one.

John 14:
[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

 

[Taken]

Who told you that?

Not the word of God.

The Bible says:

John 1:29
...Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

These which are "of" God, Is God.
Grace of God,
Lamb of God,
Word of God,
Spirit of God,
Wisdom of God,
Seed of God,
Light of God,
Power of God,
Son of God....

All these things ARE God, IN God, YET while they Remain IN God they come forth out from God.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

John 10:
[30] I and my Father are one.

John 17:20-21
[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; [21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

So we being one with God and Christ, does that make us God too?

The things regarding Christ and God are a mystery. We will all know the full truth of this amazing doctrine in heaven. But now we should only do what the Bible says to do to get there to begin with:

Acts 8:37
...believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Because:

1 Corinthians 13:12
...now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

 

[justbyfaith]

Phl 2:9, Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Phl 2:10, That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Phl 2:11, And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

His name is above every name...

Does the Father have a name?

The name of Jesus is above the name of the Father?

It should be clear that there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6); and that Lord is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).

 

[justbyfaith]

So we being one with God and Christ, does that make us God too?

Matthew 19:11.

 

[DNB]

The verses are in the same topical context (see 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv)).

Only in your mind they are, as far as what was attempted to be explained. Why the Pharisees were indignant in one passage, is not for the same reason that they were in another. You deliberately confused the two, in an attempt to support your wayward eisegesis. Don't dismiss what I addressed several times now, and try and play incompetent correlating of contextually (for this argument) unrelated Scripture.