Once Saved Always Saved

[Ferris Bueller]

<<<That is, the believer must continue in his believing to the very end.>>>

And why is that?

In osas it means you never really believed to begin with.

In anti-osas it means you lose the benefit that your believing secured for you.

In both theologies, a person must continue in his believing to the very end. For no unbeliever belongs to God.

Anyone who runs ahead without remaining in the teaching of Christ does not have God. Whoever remains in His teaching has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That the Christian is already saved is indisputable as scriptures testifies all over and state clearly over and over again.

I have no disagreement with this. The person who is trusting in Christ, right now, is saved. Period.

...you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. 1 Corinthians 15:2​

The admonition of scripture is to stay in that believing so that you stay in the Son and the Father and the promise of eternal life.

let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life. 1 John 2:24-25​

It's a condition. You have to let the gospel word remain in you in faith in order to remain in the Son and the Father and eternal life. Osas just says the word can't help but to remain in the believer. I'm fine with that if that's what a person wants to believe. The important thing is that the word remain in you. That's what matters!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

It is not that he is saved because he continued but that he is saved and os manifested as so by his continuing.

It doesn't matter which theology is actually the true one. The important thing is that the word remain in you to the very end, whether that happens automatically, or whether you let it as John tells us to let it. It's an issue not worth dividing the church over. The important thing is that the word remain in you.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Faith that God gives/gave the Christian is abiding in nature. Its being abiding has nothing to do with the recipient. The Christian does not make faith to be abiding.

Tong
R2650

Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. 1 John 2:24​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Do you have an abiding faith? Does your faith continue?

I can't remember if I answered this for you.
The answer is 'yes'.

 

[Behold]

You make it sound like @Behold thinks Hebrews isn't good for anything! I've NEVER got that from his posts. Or that it's not inspired. Never!!
But there are a couple of passages in particular that people commonly misuse to their hurt.
Of course, Peter said the same thing about Paul's writings, that they can be hard to understand, and that some twist them to their own destruction.
Much love!

justbyfaith, is here to teach against the Cross.
He is devoted to trying to prove that the blood of Jesus is only as good as a believer's works.
He has no understanding of the Grace of God or of the Blood Atonement.
He preaches water and works, then denies he does it.
"pretzel logic".

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
What I am asking is about that faith that you say you have or is in you. Whether it is abiding or not. If you know, you could easily tell me if it is abiding or not. But if you don’t know, you can simply tell me that you don’t know.

Faith remains in me. I haven't stopped believing. I have not cast it away. Why are you asking this?

To point out the faith spoken of scriptures that comes from God, that the saved have received from Him. That the nature of this faith is that it is abiding, never fails, never cease and has great power, unlike faith that comes from of the man.

From your reply, it seems that you don’t know if that is the faith you have or not. And what you keep saying is about you, that you haven’t stop believing. That is not what I was asking about. For I am talking about faith that comes from God, not really about you or the Christian. That such faith is of a nature that is abiding, continuing, and never fails, never cease and has great power.

Every true Christian received that faith from God.

Tong
R2670

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Post 2888

trying to prove that the blood of Jesus is only as good as a believer's works.
He has no understanding of the Grace of God or of the Blood Atonement.

The blood of Christ cleanses the believers’ past sins upon believing the gospel:

Romans 3:25
...God hath set forth [Christ] to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past

But for what ever reason you see the verse this way:

Romans 3:25
God hath set forth [Christ] to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, present and future

The words in red are non existent in the sacred writing; you have been taught to see it erroneously.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Do you believe you are saved? That is an honest question. An honest answer, would be yes or no.

Yes, I am saved.

Finally. Thank you.

And why do you know that for certain you are saved? Is it not because of the faith that you received from God?

And because you are indeed saved, you have received the Holy Spirit, a new heart, a new spirit, faith, hope, love, peace, and may have been given other spiritual gifts, all of which comes from God. Such were freely given to you and which you now have in you. You have Jesus Christ now as your Good Shepherd who keeps you, cares for you, look after you, forever.

Tong
R2671

 

[Ferris Bueller]

To point out the faith spoken of scriptures that comes from God, that the saved have received from Him. That the nature of this faith is that it is abiding, never fails, never cease and has great power,

Which is every reason why we should retain such a faith and not cast it away.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Do you believe that faith that is from God is abiding or not? That is an honest question. And an honest answer would be yes or no.

Faith from God will remain in you if you do not cast it off in unbelief. It remains in me. I'm still a believer.

It is not whether faith from God can be given back to God or not nor whether faith from God can be thrown away or not. That is not what I am speaking about. Nor it is about what you do with it.

Rather, that the nature of faith that comes from God is that it is one that is abiding, is continuing, never fails, does not cease. Just like love that comes from God that God gives to the Christian, it never fails, does not cease, is continuing, and is abiding.

Having said that, let me ask again;

Do you believe that the faith that comes from God is abiding, is continuing, never fails, does not cease?

Tong
R2672

 

[Wrangler]

Faith remains in me. I haven't stopped believing. I have not cast it away. Why are you asking this?

Tong is asking you because of his presumed superiority as an OSAS proselytizer. They brag about 'knowing' they are saved and want to egotistically compare to the frail NOSAS folks who are always afraid of losing salvation if they don't work hard enough - or so they suppose.

It's disgusting. And I've been sullied by their graceless insinuations far too many times.

 

[Wrangler]

trying to prove that the blood of Jesus is only as good as a believer's works.

It's funny you keep making this Appeal to Strawman. What do you think, A or B?

A. Mindless slave describes best our relationship to Christ.
B. Our relationship to Christ is best described as mutually loving but we mortals are the weak link, in constant need of turning from the flesh to the divine.​

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<That is, the believer must continue in his believing to the very end.>>>

And why is that?

In osas it means you never really believed to begin with.

In anti-osas it means you lose the benefit that your believing secured for you.

In both theologies, a person must continue in his believing to the very end. For no unbeliever belongs to God.

Anyone who runs ahead without remaining in the teaching of Christ does not have God. Whoever remains in His teaching has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9​

In your other post you said you are saved. Now, the saved must continue in his believing to the very end.

If he does? What happens at the end? Will he be saved? No. He is already saved. He is just manifested to be a true believer.

If he does not? What happens at the end? Will he be saved? No. And there are at least two different positions on this. One is that he is saved no longer, and the other is that he is manifested to be not a true believer after all. In the former position, him being a true believer and after is no longer saved, it renders Jesus as have failed to keep him and so lost him. The latter position does not render Jesus like so, but renders him who did not continue to the end as one who isn’t really Jesus’ sheep or a true disciple or a true believer.

So it’s really not about getting saved or remaining saved or what.

Tong
R2673

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Do you believe that the faith that comes from God is abiding, is continuing, never fails, does not cease?

It is all those things. That's why we should not cast it away.

I'm trying to show you that you are in a completely different paradigm of thought concerning faith and salvation—the osas paradigm of thought. That's why you think I'm not answering your questions.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

In your other post you said you are saved. Now, the saved must continue in his believing to the very end.

If he does? What happens at the end? Will he be saved? No. He is already saved. He is just manifested to be a true believer.

He will pass through the judgment safely and be ushered into the kingdom of God.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

In the former position, him being a true believer and after is no longer saved, it renders Jesus as have failed to keep him and so lost him.

Jesus not losing any is in reference to the accuracy and perfection of his ministry and sacrifice. No one will be lost, who wants to be saved, because of incompetence or lack on the part of Jesus.

The perfection of his ministry and sacrifice in no way means believers are prevented from not availing themselves of that perfect ministry. This paradigm of thought, which is completely alien and unknown to osas, comes from Hebrews. I have noticed osas people don't even realize this other zone of thought exists. They never thought of it before. They're only capable of thinking that the way they think about it is the only thought out there about it.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
It is not that he is saved because he continued but that he is saved and os manifested as so by his continuing.

It doesn't matter which theology is actually the true one. The important thing is that the word remain in you to the very end, whether that happens automatically, or whether you let it as John tells us to let it. It's an issue not worth dividing the church over. The important thing is that the word remain in you.

The truth always matters, at least to me. It’s one of the reasons why I read and study God’s words in scriptures.

Tong
R2674

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Faith that God gives/gave the Christian is abiding in nature. Its being abiding has nothing to do with the recipient. The Christian does not make faith to be abiding.

Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. 1 John 2:24​

The passage does not speak about faith, but about the truth which they have heard.

Tong
R2675

 

[Tong2020]

Post 2888


The blood of Christ cleanses the believers’ past sins upon believing the gospel:

Romans 3:25
...God hath set forth [Christ] to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past

But for what ever reason you see the verse this way:

Romans 3:25
God hath set forth [Christ] to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, present and future

The words in red are non existent in the sacred writing; you have been taught to see it erroneously.

Have check on the other translations?

ASV
whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God;

NIV
God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished

NLT
For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past,

It would be noble and wise to check with the Greek texts of Romans 3:25.

Tong
R2676