WE ARE NOT SAVED BY WORKS...WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

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Grailhunter

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NO man can come unto me , LEST the FATHER draw HIM . I did not lead myself to JESUS , GOD DREW ME TO HIM .

So you do not agree that this a do, a work, that He did something to move in the direction of Salvation.
If your answer is no, then the next question is
Could Billy be saved if he continued to sit on the couch and not give Christianity a thought and did not decided to believe.
 

justbyfaith

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This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He sent (John 6:28-29); and it is something that we do (v.28).

Also, I think that Ephesians 2:8-9 teaches us that you cannot receive regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost by doing some good work (like giving $5 to the poor...or even $5,000,000). Titus 3:5 is clear on this.

However, if anyone is regenerated and renewed, the love of God is shed abroad in their hearts (Romans 5:5). This love is practical (1 John 3:17-18) and the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within the true believer (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).
 
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amigo de christo

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So you do not agree that this a do, a work, that He did something to move in the direction of Salvation.
If your answer is no, then the next question is
Could Billy be saved if he continued to sit on the couch and not give Christianity a thought and did not decided to believe.
You are over thinking this . But to answer your question . NO BILLY WOULD NOT be SAVED if he did that .
But i am telling you , IT WAS GOD who led me to saving faith and a whole change , a whole new desire in my heart .
I did not do this . My flesh was contrary . YET HE reached into my inner conscious and put THAT DESIRE TO DO SO INTO MY HEART .
We are saved soley by grace . Now i do warn folks that if we DONT continue IN CHRIST , you bet we in dire trouble .
AND the one thing that can harden a heart , IS SIN . THUS if one does err , REPENT and FLEE the evil
lest it take your heart away FROM GOD , FROM CHRIST . I Find even this is the working o the SPIRIT
I mean , ITS The SPIRIT that even unctions me to flee the evil and to do the good .
IF GOD were to take HIS SPIRIT from me , would you like to know where i would be . DOING exactly
what it was i did before i was first drawn to CHRIST . EVIL EVIL EVIL .
I have no doubt at all , THAT IT IS SOLEY the GOODNESS OF GOD that works in me and keeps me safe .
BUT i also have no doubt at all , that if i do entertain sin , IT SURE can harden my heart and cause my fall . THAT TOO
comes by warning of the SPIRIT . I just cant take credit for anything GOOD . I just point to GOD to CHRIST .
And remind others to do the same , and yet even that is by the SPIRIT . I FIND that the only righteousness
the only goodness i truly do have , IS and COMES FROM GOD . ON that note , its time to praise the LORD .
MANY folks fall away , and JESUS says why , some lust comes in and chokes the word , or some fear .
THUS my advice for us all , LEARN THAT BIBLCAL JESUS WELL . and even that reminder comes by the SPIRIT .
I guess in truth the only thing i can say is , JESUS CHRIST CAME INTO THE WORLD TO SAVE SINNERS
of whom i was the worst and the only goodness i have even NOW , COMES FROM HIM . JUST cant give myself any credit .
WELL , wait i can . I give myself this credit , I EARNED HELL FIRE THE SECOND DEATH .
Now , LET ME GO PRAISE GOD AGAIN FOR GIVING ME MERCY BY HIS GRACE IN JESUS CHRIST . YALL WONDER
why i PRAISE GOD SO MUCH . CAUSE I know what he forgave me of , and the only reason , FOR WHAT JESUS DID .
AND even then HE STill sends grace and drew me to Christ . TIME TO PRAISE THE LORD is about all i can say .
BUT YES , i promise folks can fall away . WE BETTER HEED the SPIRIT and not the flesh .
 

Nancy

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So you do not agree that this a do, a work, that He did something to move in the direction of Salvation.
If your answer is no, then the next question is
Could Billy be saved if he continued to sit on the couch and not give Christianity a thought and did not decided to believe.

Hello Grail,
When we become convicted or convinced through God's Spirit of our need for Christ, I see this as the beginning of "receiving" His gift or not. Now, Billy, just sitting on the couch and eating chips and drinking tea, will be at one point, convicted of His Spirit as He said He would call ALL men unto Him.
Now, if one is a Calvinist, Billy is already either saved or not before the foundations of the earth but, they also believe accepting this GLORIOUS gift from the Hand of God is "WORKS"!!! o_O
They have their "few" scriptures that are used and twisted to fit their doctrine.
That's all :)
 

Grailhunter

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This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He sent (John 6:28-29); and it is something that we do (v.28).

So is this a work? An action by Billy that is required for salvation? So if it is not a work, what would you classify it as.

Keep in mind the question is it true that we are not saved by works.
This can be a matter of opinion so it is an open discussion among Christians.
 

Taken

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People say that we are not saved by works.
That there is nothing that we do on our own that can save us.
People say this all the time...but is it true...or does the statement mean something that is misunderstood. Lets put in motion.

Billy is not a Christian. He is sitting on his couch watching a football game. Happy go luck and he is not thinking about Christianity and the only thing he is doing is eating chips and drinking tea.

So the question is, how does Billy get saved without works?...He is not thinking anything in particular and not doing anything. So how does it happen?

Billy gets saved....
BY a process.
Hearing Scripture...
(Is hearing a Works?)
BY
Hearing Scripture...
BY
Hearing Scripture...

(Remember for 3 years, daily, for hours, the Disciples...
Heard the Word of God.)

Hearing IS the Beginning (of the process)...
Hear, Hear, Hear.

Such a person IS CALLED...."Tasting"...
Being "ENLIGHTENED".
He is NOT teaching, NOT repeating, HE IS LISTENING.

Every time the person IS HEARING...
God is giving that man...small measures of of Gods Gift of FAITH.

Keep HEARING...Keep RECEIVING measures of Gods Gift of Faith.

Process...from young child, teen, adult...
Hearing Continues...Faith Increases.
Hearing Continues...Faith Increases.
Hearing Continues...Faith Increases.

That person IS BEING PREPARED...to make a DECISION, TO CONFESS Belief.....or REJECT what he Heard.

THAT PROCESS, THAT Leads TO a persons Heartful Confession of Belief....
THAT ^ IS a persons BASIC service and HOW he can receive Gods Offering of His Gift of Salvation.

THAT ^ has nothing to Do with WORKS.

Works IS WHAT "only", a Converted person "CAN DO".
Works IS ANYTHING a Converted Person DOES, that "GLORIFIES GOD"...
(Basically a WORK that IS Beneficial TO AN OTHER, and Giving the Credit TO GOD).
* Speak Gods Word...To Gods Credit.
* Charity...To Gods Credit.
* Helping Hand...To Gods Credit.

Men Give and Help others, but often take the credit unto themselves....THAT is their reward.

Men Who Freely Speak the Word of God, Freely give to Charity, Freely Aid, Help Others, and Give God the Credit....ARE Rewarded BY God....
(called Stored Treasures IN Heaven, that the Lord will Give When He returns.)

Matt 6:
(DON"T)

[19] Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

Matt 6:
DO

[20] But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven,[/B] where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

Rev 22:
[12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as "his work" shall be.
 

Grailhunter

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You are over thinking this
No I am not. The specifics are important. If everything is ambiguous then it is all left to question...no answers.

You are over thinking this . But to answer your question . NO BILLY WOULD NOT be SAVED if he did that .
But i am telling you , IT WAS GOD who led me to saving faith and a whole change , a whole new desire in my heart .
I did not do this . My flesh was contrary . YET HE reached into my inner conscious and put THAT DESIRE TO DO SO INTO MY HEART .
We are saved soley by grace . Now i do warn folks that if we DONT continue IN CHRIST , you bet we in dire trouble .
AND the one thing that can harden a heart , IS SIN . THUS if one does err , REPENT and FLEE the evil
lest it take your heart away FROM GOD , FROM CHRIST . I Find even this is the working o the SPIRIT
I mean , ITS The SPIRIT that even unctions me to flee the evil and to do the good .
IF GOD were to take HIS SPIRIT from me , would you like to know where i would be . DOING exactly
what it was i did before i was first drawn to CHRIST . EVIL EVIL EVIL .
I have no doubt at all , THAT IT IS SOLEY the GOODNESS OF GOD that works in me and keeps me safe .
BUT i also have no doubt at all , that if i do entertain sin , IT SURE can harden my heart and cause my fall . THAT TOO
comes by warning of the SPIRIT . I just cant take credit for anything GOOD . I just point to GOD to CHRIST .
And remind others to do the same , and yet even that is by the SPIRIT . I FIND that the only righteousness
the only goodness i truly do have , IS and COMES FROM GOD . ON that note , its time to praise the LORD .
MANY folks fall away , and JESUS says why , some lust comes in and chokes the word , or some fear .
THUS my advice for us all , LEARN THAT BIBLCAL JESUS WELL . and even that reminder comes by the SPIRIT .
I guess in truth the only thing i can say is , JESUS CHRIST CAME INTO THE WORLD TO SAVE SINNERS
of whom i was the worst and the only goodness i have even NOW , COMES FROM HIM . JUST cant give myself any credit .
WELL , wait i can . I give myself this credit , I EARNED HELL FIRE THE SECOND DEATH .
Now , LET ME GO PRAISE GOD AGAIN FOR GIVING ME MERCY BY HIS GRACE IN JESUS CHRIST . YALL WONDER
why i PRAISE GOD SO MUCH . CAUSE I know what he forgave me of , and the only reason , FOR WHAT JESUS DID .
AND even then HE STill sends grace and drew me to Christ . TIME TO PRAISE THE LORD is about all i can say .
BUT YES , i promise folks can fall away . WE BETTER HEED the SPIRIT and not the flesh .

So lets cut to the chase....Did you do anything? Did God force you to believe? Did you decide to believe? Is that a work?
Now this is about Billy...it will get a little complicated if we include a personal testimony.
 

amigo de christo

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So is this a work? An action by Billy that is required for salvation? So if it is not a work, what would you classify it as.

Keep in mind the question is it true that we are not saved by works.
This can be a matter of opinion so it is an open discussion among Christians.
What must we do to work the works of GOD . BELIEVE IN CHRIST WHOM GOD DID SEND .
I say let us just keep it simple and not over think .
Just believe in Christ and tell others that in order to be saved , YE MUST believe in Christ . THEN LET GOD add to the church
Let us just keep this simple .
 

amigo de christo

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No I am not. The specifics are important. If everything is ambiguous then it is all left to question...no answers.



So lets cut to the chase....Did you do anything? Did God force you to believe? Did you decide to believe? Is that a work?
Now this is about Billy...it will get a little complicated if we include a personal testimony.
Dont take this personal . But you dont follow calvin ..............do you .
YES lets keep it simple . overthinking is what has caused fights and strifes . AND IN TRUTH , GOD ALONE is the one
who knows all . ALL we need to know is , in order tobe saved , COME TO CHRIST and then LEARN the bibical JESUS .
all this pre destination or whateverism does , it cause strifes , when in truth no man knows it all .
BUT THIS WE DO KNOW , NO JESUS NO ETERNAL LIFE . SO lets keep it simple and grow in grace . learn those bibles
and keep it simple .
 

Grailhunter

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What must we do to work the works of GOD . BELIEVE IN CHRIST WHOM GOD DID SEND .
I say let us just keep it simple and not over think .
Just believe in Christ and tell others that in order to be saved , YE MUST believe in Christ . THEN LET GOD add to the church
Let us just keep this simple .
You do not have to participate but I will move along. It is a discussion...I am not going to deduct points. LOL
 

justbyfaith

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God is saying in Ephesians 2:8-9 that we are not saved by works.

In John 6:28-29, He is saying that if you are going to insist that you will be saved by works, the only "work" that will save you is faith in Jesus Christ.

He concedes the point and then turns around and makes His point that blows the point that He conceded to out of the water.
 

Michiah-Imla

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Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by believing only.

John 6:29
...This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
 
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Enoch111

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People say this all the time...but is it true...or does the statement mean something that is misunderstood.
Of course it is true and there is no misunderstanding. We are justified by grace through faith + NOTHING. However, after a person is saved, good works are expected and so is righteous living.

The real issue is whether people understand what justification is all about. There is a huge lack of understanding of the difference between justification and sanctification.