WE ARE NOT SAVED BY WORKS...WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

[Nancy]

Billy gets saved....
BY a process.
Hearing Scripture...
(Is hearing a Works?)
BY
Hearing Scripture...
BY
Hearing Scripture...

(Remember for 3 years, daily, for hours, the Disciples...
Heard the Word of God.)

Hearing IS the Beginning (of the process)...
Hear, Hear, Hear.

Such a person IS CALLED...."Tasting"...
Being "ENLIGHTENED".
He is NOT teaching, NOT repeating, HE IS LISTENING.

Every time the person IS HEARING...
God is giving that man...small measures of of Gods Gift of FAITH.

Keep HEARING...Keep RECEIVING measures of Gods Gift of Faith.

Process...from young child, teen, adult...
Hearing Continues...Faith Increases.
Hearing Continues...Faith Increases.
Hearing Continues...Faith Increases.

That person IS BEING PREPARED...to make a DECISION, TO CONFESS Belief.....or REJECT what he Heard.

THAT PROCESS, THAT Leads TO a persons Heartful Confession of Belief....
THAT ^ IS a persons BASIC service and HOW he can receive Gods Offering of His Gift of Salvation.

THAT ^ has nothing to Do with WORKS.

Works IS WHAT "only", a Converted person "CAN DO".
Works IS ANYTHING a Converted Person DOES, that "GLORIFIES GOD"...
(Basically a WORK that IS Beneficial TO AN OTHER, and Giving the Credit TO GOD).
* Speak Gods Word...To Gods Credit.
* Charity...To Gods Credit.
* Helping Hand...To Gods Credit.

Men Give and Help others, but often take the credit unto themselves....THAT is their reward.

Men Who Freely Speak the Word of God, Freely give to Charity, Freely Aid, Help Others, and Give God the Credit....ARE Rewarded BY God....
(called Stored Treasures IN Heaven, that the Lord will Give When He returns.)

Matt 6:
(DON"T)

[19] Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

Matt 6:
DO

[20] But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven,[/B] where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

Rev 22:
[12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as "his work" shall be.

Perfect, precise. you sure do have a way with words @Taken

 

[justbyfaith]

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by believing only.

John 6:29
...This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Are you trying to say that believing is not a work of righteousness?

 

[Truman]

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

People say that we are not saved by works.
That there is nothing that we do on our own that can save us.
People say this all the time...but is it true...or does the statement mean something that is misunderstood. Lets put in motion.

Billy is not a Christian. He is sitting on his couch watching a football game. Happy go luck and he is not thinking about Christianity and the only thing he is doing is eating chips and drinking tea.

So the question is, how does Billy get saved without works?...He is not thinking anything in particular and not doing anything. So how does it happen?

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."
Eph. 2:8-9
God orchestrates the whole process. No one can come to the Father unless He draws them.
He supernaturally draws you to Himself by sending witnesses and ministers of the Word so you will hear it or read it. He lifts the veil of blindness so that you can see. Each individual is dealt with differently. He prepares your heart, plants seeds early on, brings you through trials throughout your life so you learn and experience good and evil. He enables us to perceive deeper than our rational minds were capable of perceiving. Faith comes by the Word and the more we increase in knowledge, the more in agreement we become. It is a divine appointment He made before we were born.
And so without Him, we can do nothing to jumpstart this process.
Good works are also expected of us _ as we grow _ we bear fruit. The Holy Spirit prepares works for us as we cooperate and are obedient. But salvation isn't earned by works - Jesus paid the price. If we had to earn it, than Jesus sacrifice would not be sufficient. We would be saying in essence, it wasn't finished on the cross like Jesus claimed.
No way Jose - it is a gift.

 

[Grailhunter]

God is saying in Ephesians 2:8-9 that we are not saved by works.

In John 6:28-29, He is saying that if you are going to insist that you will be saved by works, the only "work" that will save you is faith in Jesus Christ.

He concedes the point and then turns around and makes His point that blows the point that He conceded to out of the water.

Hence the thread on "We are not saved by works" but is it as simple as that.

 

[Grailhunter]

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by believing only.

John 6:29
...This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

works of righteousness is what?

 

[Grailhunter]

Of course it is true and there is no misunderstanding. We are justified by grace through faith + NOTHING. However, after a person is saved, good works are expected and so is righteous living.

The real issue is whether people understand what justification is all about. There is a huge lack of understanding of the difference between justification and sanctification.

One of the reasons I did these is a point clarity.

 

[Grailhunter]

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."
Eph. 2:8-9
God orchestrates the whole process. No one can come to the Father unless He draws them.
He supernaturally draws you to Himself by sending witnesses and ministers of the Word so you will hear it or read it. He lifts the veil of blindness so that you can see. Each individual is dealt with differently. He prepares your heart, plants seeds early on, brings you through trials throughout your life so you learn and experience good and evil. He enables us to perceive deeper than our rational minds were capable of perceiving. Faith comes by the Word and the more we increase in knowledge, the more in agreement we become. It is a divine appointment He made before we were born.
And so without Him, we can do nothing to jumpstart this process.
Good works are also expected of us _ as we grow _ we bear fruit. The Holy Spirit prepares works for us as we cooperate and are obedient. But salvation isn't earned by works - Jesus paid the price. If we had to earn it, than Jesus sacrifice would not be sufficient. We would be saying in essence, it wasn't finished on the cross like Jesus claimed.
No way Jose - it is a gift.

We all are going to agree on basis of this but still is it accurate.
Define the term work.
In other words of the definitions of Work(s)...in the context of "We are not saved by works" what does work mean?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Are you trying to say that believing is not a work of righteousness?

Well, yes.

Because people believe lies too ya know...

Believing is just, well, believing.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

works of righteousness is what?

Doing right things.

 

[justbyfaith]

Well, yes.

Because people believe lies too ya know...

Now reconsider the question in reference to believing in the truth and/even Jesus Christ.

 

[Grailhunter]

Doing right things.

Is something that Christians should do....something so simple can be a little complex when you break it down

 

[Michael1985]

People say that we are not saved by works.
That there is nothing that we do on our own that can save us.
People say this all the time...but is it true...or does the statement mean something that is misunderstood. Lets put in motion.

Billy is not a Christian. He is sitting on his couch watching a football game. Happy go luck and he is not thinking about Christianity and the only thing he is doing is eating chips and drinking tea.

So the question is, how does Billy get saved without works?...He is not thinking anything in particular and not doing anything. So how does it happen?

I have long understood "works" to be the expression of our faith. It's not some checklist of requirements, but whether we are abiding by the commands He has given us about how we live our lives, and chief among that is how we treat others.

 

[Grailhunter]

Let me put it this way, is there anyone here that is going to disagree that the term or word...works, in the contest of the saying, We are not saved by works....means a religious action...or effort.

Certainly work can be applied to harvesting and such but, in this context what does it mean?

 

[Grailhunter]

I have long understood "works" to be the expression of our faith. It's not some checklist of requirements, but whether we are abiding by the commands He has given us about how we live our lives, and chief among that is how we treat others.

But we are not talking about good deeds or religious activates after we are saved...works to be saved or not.

 

[Michael1985]

But we are not talking about good deeds or religious activates after we are saved...works to be saved or not.

Clearly, you did not understand my post. I was saying that works is how we live out our lives and how it conforms to Biblical teachings more tha checklist of good things we must do...

 

[Grailhunter]

Clearly, you did not understand my post. I was saying that works is how we live out our lives and how it conforms to Biblical teachings more tha checklist of good things we must do...

I am not disagreeing with your post...standby.

 

[Grailhunter]

Well, its a little after 5:30 where I am at, so let me move this along a little.
So is the statement "We are not saved by works" accurate...ambiguous...equivocal...or irrelevant?
Billy is going to decide that the Gospel is true and he believes in Christ.
Billy goes to a local church and goes down to the front of the church and kneels and talks with the minster and explains he wants to give his life to Christ and the preacher and him have a good talk about repentance and Billy understands the failures of his life and wants to be a good Christian.
Billy goes to church the following Sunday and gets baptized.
Billy then goes to a church dinner where they perform the ritual of communion.

Now I am saying that everything Billy did here was religious in nature...with a religious goal...an action on his part that qualifies as "works" in the most truest sense and it ended up with him being saved. Point number two, if he had not done these "works" and remained on the couch and never gave Christianity a thought, he would not have been saved.

So his works lead to him being saved even though that power did not come from him. He was saved by Christ. But if he did no works he would not have been saved. So the statement that We are not saved "by" works is accurate but ambiguous. Because you cannot be saved without works. In this case he was actually performing religious rituals...with the goal of being saved.

So you can say that we are not saved by works...but you cannot be saved without works. This makes the point much more accurate.

Now we discuss this....

And the next topic is good deeds.

 

[Renniks]

Then he thinks about it and chooses to look into it or he believes right there...is this do...a work?

I don't believe that looking into it is actually a work. If I buy a book on a certain subject because I'm curious about it is that a work?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

We all are going to agree on basis of this but still is it accurate.
Define the term work.
In other words of the definitions of Work(s)...in the context of "We are not saved by works" what does work mean?

Good deeds, simply loving others
That is a command to be obedient to, not something to pay debts (sins) with.