Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

Kermos · Aug 5, 2021

Our, believers in Jesus, merciful and loving God is Benefactor, and we believers are beneficiaries, and our gracious Benefactor produces:

Benefactor produces divine choice of we beneficiaries unto salvation, for the Christ of us Christians says
"you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19)

AND, Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Ephesians "Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him in love" (Ephesians 1:3-4)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 15:16 and John 15:19 state God exclusively chooses us believers by/of/through God

Benefactor produces beneficiaries' faith/belief in Lord Jesus, for the Christ of us Christians says (see also a word about belief/faith (Greek πίστις pistis) and believe (Greek πιστεύω pisteuó))
"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29)

AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Ephesians "by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 2:8-10)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 6:29 state for us believers to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent is by/of/through God

Benefactor produces beneficiaries' fruit of the Spirit/righteous actions/good works, for the Christ of us Christians says
"he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God" (John 3:21)

AND Paul is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to the Philippians "being filled with the fruit of righteousness that [is] by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God" (Philippians 1:11)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 3:21 state fruit in we believers is by/of/through God

Benefactor produces beneficiaries' birth by the Holy Spirit, for the Christ of us Christians says
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit" (John 3:5-8)

AND Peter is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote to persons residing as aliens "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" (1 Peter 1:3)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 3:5-8 state we believers being born again is by/of/through God

Benefactor produces beneficiaries' repent by God's working, for the Christ of us Christians says
"I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent and have revealed them to babes" (Matthew 11:25)

AND the apostles and elders glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life" (Acts 11:18)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in Matthew 11:25 state that God causes man to think differently after an encounter with God (repent means to think differently afterward)

Benefactor produces beneficiaries' love by God's working, for the Christ of us Christians says
"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another" (John 13:34)

AND John is in accord with Jesus' words for he wrote "Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God" (1 John 4:7)

SO, clearly, Jesus' words in John 13:34 states that the love, the very righteous love, the Godly love within us children of God, this love is of/by/through God

Just like the original post shows Adam did not have a free will so neither do any people after Adam have a free will.

Kermos · Aug 5, 2021

Tong2020 said:
And still going with your own line of reasoning, there is still no “Adam” and still no “eat” in Romans 8:30-22.

Tong
R3886

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "ate" which is an action in time of "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "tree" which is a thing as part of "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "Adam" which is a person as part of "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "not willingly" in Romans 8:20-22.

Paul most certainly included "Adam ate not willingly of the tree" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "ate" from "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "tree" from "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "Adam" from "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "not willingly" from Paul's application to "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

And, this, sir, is Romans 8:20-22 in context.

You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

CharismaticLady · Aug 5, 2021

Kermos said:
Please go back to read the original post, and to read this post in this thread showing that God declares that Adam listened to the voice of his wife as the cause for Adam to eat of the tree (Genesis 3:17), and Paul conveyed that Adam did not willingly eat of the tree (Romans 8:20). These cover your questions.

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

It boggles the mind to try to understand why you believe Adam's listening to his wife was not from his free-will.

MatthewG · Aug 5, 2021

Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

Yes.

Kermos · Aug 5, 2021

Tong2020 said:
Kermos

Why do you seem not to take Gen.2:16-17 as a commandment of God to Adam?

I have repeatedly written that it is a command of God recorded in Genesis 2:16-17, so it makes no sense for you to make such an assertion.

Tong2020 said:
If you do, what do you think is a commandment for?

The Word of God States precisely what the command is for with "Of every tree in the garden to eat you will be eating, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not eating from, when in the day you are to eat of it to die you will be dying" (Genesis 2:16-17,

Tong2020 said:
What do you think could be expected of the one commanded?

Tong
R3887

The Word of God says that the man would eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil as recorded in Genesis 2:16-17.

The Word of God is essential unto salvation (Romans 1:16).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Aug 5, 2021

Taken said:
Man is created from Dust.

Scriptural.

Taken said:
Man is made living by God Breath.

Incomplete. Specifically, a living soul (1 Corinthians 15:45).

Taken said:
Gods "works" of MAKING what He "created";
Includes man having his "OWN" WILL to pick and choose as his own WILL decides.

Unscriptural.

No scripture states man was imparted a free-will.

Taken said:
God openly demonstrated man HAS free will of his own... when God Himself Offered Adam options to choose names for animals; options to choose to eat of any tree of the garden.

God openly demonstrated God Himself has "options" He desires a man TO freely choose, and God Himself WARNS beforehand, the consequence for any option a man freely chooses.

Scripture reveals; Adam freely chose animals names, with no negative consequence...and Adam freely chose to eat of one tree with negative consequences....and forward...every man born of the seed of the first man...so also has options to Freely Choose their own options by their own free will....with positive consequences and with negative consequences....and immediately revealed; in twins born of Adam and Eve....Cain and Able.

Not rocket science. Men since the beginning have been Freely choosing by their own WILL, what they will believe and do...with positive and negative consequences, accounted to them.

It is NOT written "and God placed one of the four footed creatures in front of Adam and God asked 'what name do you choose for this creature cat dog or deer?'".

It is written "Out of the ground the LORDGod formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him" (Genesis 2:19-20).

You just adore your self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10) in adding your thoughts, such as the scripturally nonexistent "choose" to Genesis 2:19-20, thus you convert scripture into the useless "the word of Taken".

Adam gave (assigned) names to the animals per the record in Genesis 2:19-20.

Not "choose" as per your heart's thoughts, but truly "gave" per scripture.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Tong2020 · Aug 5, 2021

Desire Of All Nations said:
In order for Adam to have sinned, then he had to have been given free will since sin can only be committed by choice.

I don’t think what you say there concerning sin or the committal of sin is what one could learn in scriptures.

Tong
R3899

Kermos · Aug 6, 2021

Taken said:
It matter not to me you freely pick and choose Scripture that DOES NOT APPLY to a mans Freewill, and then say, mankind does not have Freewill...

No scripture states that God imparted man a free will ability to choose God unto a man's salvation from the wrath of God.

The English word "choose" has a Hebrew word equivalent of "בָּחר" (bachar -Strong's Number 977).

The Hebrew word "בָּחר" does not occur in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24).

Taken said:
* Adam freely chose by his will to Eat of the forbidden tree.

The scripture says "he did eat" (Genesis 3:6), yet you wrote "Adam freely chose by his will to Eat of the forbidden tree"; therefore, you convey that in your heart "he did choose to eat" is the scripture.

And there it is, you are wickedly adding to scripture.

Taken said:
* Adam freely chose by his will to Name Animals God brought to him.

It is NOT written "and God placed one of the four footed creatures in front of Adam and God asked 'what name do you choose for this creature cat, dog, or deer?'".

It is written "Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for Adam there was not found a helper suitable for him" (Genesis 2:19-20).

Behold, "choose" is not in the passage.

Adam gave (assigned) names to the animals and the birds per the record in Genesis 2:19-20. The name that occurred to Adams is the name that Adam assigned to the creatures.

Not "choose" as per your heart's thoughts, but truly "gave" per scripture.

And there is more of you wickedly adding to scripture.

Taken said:
* Men freely choose by their will what Master they will Serve.

It is written "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve YHWH" (Joshua 24:15).

The "choose" in Joshua 24:15 applies to false gods only. The "as for me and my house, we will serve YHWH" in Joshua 24:15 is an imperative, NOT an interogative, NOT a clause with Joshua "choosing" God, NOT "as for me and my house, we will choose to serve YHWH", but specifically a declaration of action which is "serve".

YHWH is not mentioned by Joshua for the people to choose in Joshua 24:15, and this aligns up with the Lord Jesus Christ's words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15-19, includes salvation).

Joshua 24:15 is nothing about freewill (Largely, I use freewill to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ).

Not "as for me and my house, we will choose to serve YHWH" as per your heart's thoughts, but truly "as for me and my house, we will serve YHWH" per scripture.

And there is yet more of you wickedly adding to scripture.

Taken said:
* Men freely choose by their will to elect God.

For Psalm 65:4, you wickedly subtracted "causest to approach unto thee" and added in "WHOM chooses God" (link to the post in this thread that shows where you committed this evil crime against God).

The psalmist wrote that God causes a man to approach God!

CAUSES, not man chooses God, but GOD CAUSES MAN.

"knowing, brethren beloved by God, His choice of you" (1 Thessalonians 1:4) was written by Paul, so Paul states that God chooses man!

There is no scripture that states man chooses God, but right there is a scripture written by Paul that states God chooses man.

"You did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) says the Word of God, so persons do not choose God per the Word of God, Lord Jesus Christ!

God makes the choice of specific persons.

There, in your heart, you evilly subtract words from the very mouth of the Word of God.

Also, there is yet more of you wickedly adding to scripture.

Taken said:
You blathering on about you not having Freewill....simply reveals you dilly dally around waiting for someone to MAKE "their" CHOICES "FOR YOU"....
A perfect specimen for an oppressive regime.

You mock God's exclusive choice, so your action is very, very evil.

God's choice is God's blessed gift of salvation upon us children of God, and we cherish this wonderfully precious treasure joyfully received from God in our hearts! Praise be to the Lord!!!

The Word of God says there is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Taken · Aug 6, 2021

Kermos -
repeating yourself simply reveals you exercising your freewill, that you say you do not have.

Funny but worn out.

Kermos · Aug 6, 2021

Tong2020 said:
It remains, by your line of reasoning, reasoning that “choice” is not in the Genesis 2 passage, “Adam” and “eat” are not in Romans 8:20-22.

According to logic, it follows that:

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "ate" which is an action in time of "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "tree" which is a thing as part of "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "Adam" which is a person as part of "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "not willingly" in Romans 8:20-22.

Paul most certainly included "Adam ate not willingly of the tree" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "ate" from "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "tree" from "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "Adam" from "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "not willingly" from Paul's application to "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

And, this, sir, is Romans 8:20-22 in context.

The English word "choose" has a Hebrew word equivalent of "בָּחר" (bachar -Strong's Number 977).

The Hebrew word "בָּחר" does not occur in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24).

You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Tong2020 said:
You say here “As this post in this thread shows, God declares that Eve's voice was the cause for Adam to eat of the tree (Genesis 3:17),..”. Listen to what you say. God never declared that. These are the words of God, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it”. “Heeded” is that which points to Adam’s wrong doing, heeding the voice of Eve instead that of the voice of God. He had the choice, either to heed of the voice of Eve or of the voice of God. But of course, you deny that, with your reasoning that the word “choice” is not in the Genesis 2 passage concerned. Well,….

Tong
R3889

God did not say "Because you chose to listen to the voice of your wife" in Genesis 3:17 - which is the conveyance of your writing.

God did say "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return." (Genesis 3:17-19).

Therefore, in your heart you wickedly add "chose" into the Word of God where "chose" does not exist!

God LITERALLY stated that the CAUSE was Adam LISTENED to Adam's wife's voice; moveover, free will choice is NOT included as a CAUSE; therefore, the Apostle Paul's conveyance that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree (Romans 8:20) is in accord with the recorded Word of God in Genesis 3:17.

You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Tong2020 · Aug 6, 2021

Kermos said:
According to logic, it follows that:

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "ate" which is an action in time of "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "tree" which is a thing as part of "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "Adam" which is a person as part of "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

In "Adam ate not willingly of the tree", Paul covered "not willingly" in Romans 8:20-22.

Paul most certainly included "Adam ate not willingly of the tree" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "ate" from "until now" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "tree" from "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "Adam" from "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

See that you subtract "not willingly" from Paul's application to "the whole creation" in Romans 8:20-22.

And, this, sir, is Romans 8:20-22 in context.

The English word "choose" has a Hebrew word equivalent of "בָּחר" (bachar -Strong's Number 977).

The Hebrew word "בָּחר" does not occur in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24).

You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

God did not say "Because you chose to listen to the voice of your wife" in Genesis 3:17 - which is the conveyance of your writing.

God did say "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return." (Genesis 3:17-19).

Therefore, in your heart you wickedly add "chose" into the Word of God where "chose" does not exist!

God LITERALLY stated that the CAUSE was Adam LISTENED to Adam's wife's voice; moveover, free will choice is NOT included as a CAUSE; therefore, the Apostle Paul's conveyance that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree (Romans 8:20) is in accord with the recorded Word of God in Genesis 3:17.

You proclaim "the word of you". For you adulterate the Word of God with "choose" such that it is no longer the Word of God.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

I have not come across any erroneous or false statement/s and accusation/s repeatedly posted even a million times over and over and over, that became correct or true.

Tong
3909

Kermos · Aug 6, 2021

CharismaticLady said:
Wrong. And you ordering me around is not love. My point is everything God created that He wants to obey Him has free will, whether man, beasts, or angels.

Beasts and so-called beast free-will is off topic - not to mention showing how far unscriptural the thoughts of your heart are.

As I told you previously, angels are off topic.

You are very confused because I, in no way, ordered you around in the post to which you replied.

No scripture states that man was created with a free will. Zero scripture.

You have no conception of what love is. I tell you God is love (1 John 4:8), and no one else is love apart from God imparting love into persons.

You do not manufacture Righteous love @CharismaticLady within yourself per the Apostle John for John wrote "for love is from God" about the born of God "let us love one another" in:

"Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God" (1 John 4:7).

The very love we born of God Christians feel for others and show to others is a blessed act of God! Not man nor woman conjuring up righteous love. Righteous love is a blessed act of God in man and woman!

In love, I tell you that you cannot love righteously without being chosen by God per Lord Jesus (John 13:34) and per the Apostle John (1 John 4:7).

In love, I tell you that you cannot choose God (which means no free will) per Lord Jesus (John 3:3-8, John 15:16, John 15:19- includes salvation) and per the Apostle Paul (Ephesians 1:1-4, Ephesians 2:8-10).

In love, I tell you that the free will that you think that you have is a deception of the devil (Matthew 15:9, John 8:44).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

CharismaticLady · Aug 6, 2021

Kermos said:
Beasts and so-called beast free-will is off topic - not to mention showing how far unscriptural the thoughts of your heart are.

As I told you previously, angels are off topic.

You are very confused because I, in no way, ordered you around in the post to which you replied.

No scripture states that man was created with a free will. Zero scripture.

You have no conception of what love is. I tell you God is love (1 John 4:8), and no one else is love apart from God imparting love into persons.

You do not manufacture Righteous love @CharismaticLady within yourself per the Apostle John for John wrote "for love is from God" about the born of God "let us love one another" in:

"Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God" (1 John 4:7).

The very love we born of God Christians feel for others and show to others is a blessed act of God! Not man nor woman conjuring up righteous love. Righteous love is a blessed act of God in man and woman!

In love, I tell you that you cannot love righteously without being chosen by God per Lord Jesus (John 13:34) and per the Apostle John (1 John 4:7).

In love, I tell you that you cannot choose God (which means no free will) per Lord Jesus (John 3:3-8, John 15:16, John 15:19- includes salvation) and per the Apostle Paul (Ephesians 1:1-4, Ephesians 2:8-10).

In love, I tell you that the free will that you think that you have is a deception of the devil (Matthew 15:9, John 8:44).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

You lost my attention to read further when you tried ordering me around again. I prefer speaking with people who know how to be a true Christian, and ignore those who don't. Putting you on ignore. Bye.

Kermos · Aug 7, 2021

Desire Of All Nations said:
In order for Adam to have sinned, then he had to have been given free will since sin can only be committed by choice.

Examining attribute as relating to the purported facility of free will in Adam

WITH a targeted result of logical deductive reasoning leveraging compare and contrast of attributes/facilities

SINCE Adam was made in the image according to the likeness of God (Genesis 1:26)

THEN some persons of the creation (creatures) argue that specific facility was given to Adam

IN particular God willpowering purported free will into man, a free will like God's will, during the creation of Adam

THEN Adam could not have used free will to perform evil against God

BECAUSE God will not use willpower in order to perform evil against God's self (Psalm 5:4, Psalm 92:15, Deuteronomy 32:4)

THEREFORE it follows that man could not use free will in order to perform evil against God.

1) The logical extension of free will on this basis results in man possessing expanded facilities beyond God's facilities.

2) God is Creator; on the other hand, man is creature.

3) Largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ.

4) Scripture does not include the mention of God endowing Adam with free will.

5) Man's free will is a precept of man (Matthew 15:9).

Kermos · Aug 7, 2021

Taken said:
Since you do not have freewill...

Are you "programmed" to make choices?

The Apostle Paul wrote:

You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory (Romans 9:19-23)

IN TRUTH, PAUL CONVEYS THAT MAN'S (THING MOLDED) FREEWILL DOES NOTHING FOR SALVATION RATHER GOD (THE MOLDER) EXCLUSIVELY CONTROLS MAN'S SALVATION (Romans 9:19-23)!

The Apostle Peter wrote:

the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile majesties (2 Peter 2:9-10)

IN TRUTH, PETER CONVEYS THAT SELF WILLED PERSONS REVILE GOD'S EXCLUSIVE MAJESTIC SOVEREIGNTY IN MAN'S SALVATION BY THE SELF WILLED PERSON'S DESPISING THE WORD OF GOD "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) AS WELL AS "I CHOSE YOU OUT OF THE WORLD" (JOHN 15:19, INCLUDES SALVATION).

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Aug 7, 2021

QuickFilly said:
Based on Genesis appearances, no.

Praise God that you wrote that about the first book of the Torah!

That's the Old Testament, so let's jump to the New Testament.

Despite the Creation account in Genesis 1-3 being silent about man's "will", there exists Apostolic teaching on the matter of man's "will" with regard to the creation account.

Adam did not exercise willpower to disobey God's command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 2:16-17) for Paul wrote "the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, NASB); therefore, Adam did not make a choice, not a willing choice, to eat.

A "choice" by Adam is explicitly excluded by using scripture with scripture referencing, in fact, "the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly" (Romans 8:20, KJV), so Adam acted not willingly but rather acted subject to vanity in his eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

"Not willingly" indicates "not choice".

Some people may claim that Paul was referring to a timeframe exclusively after what they call "the fall" (after Adam ate of the tree [Genesis 3:6]), but the continuity of the passage of Romans 8:20-22must be taken as a whole.

Paul left no room for disputing to the timeframe for which "not willingly" applies, for Paul also wrote "we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now" (Romans 8:22), and the phrase "until now" is the timeframe's most recent limiting factor which memes that all times prior to "now" are included, so "the whole creation" includes the moment after God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life (Genesis 2:7) until Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3:6); therefore, we can be certain that Paul includes the timeframe that Adam ate of the tree in the travailing/groaning because Paul wrote of all of this in the same passage, i.e. Romans 8:20-22.

Kermos · Aug 7, 2021

Taken said:
Kermos ~ no need to go on and on and on...
Clearly your position IS YOU do NOT have FREEWILL.

Clearly, my position is: I Have freewill, and By my freewill picked, chose, elected and INFORMED "other men" and God Himself of my Express Will THAT;
I FREELY BY MY OWN WILL CHOSE The Lord God Almighty; to BE MY GOD.

You call God a liar every time you say that you choose God because truly the Word of God says "you did not choose Me" (John 15:16) which in this God declares God's exclusive glory in man's salvation!

I am here proclaiming the Truth (John 14:6) to you that you do not have a free will because as long as you think that you have your free will you are engaged in the precepts of men that leads to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).

No man has a free will according to scripture.

All glory is God's in man's salvation because with man salvation is impossible not even by man's choice (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, John 15:16, John 15:19, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

The Apostle Paul wrote that person's will and person's work is the work of God in persons with "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for [His] good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13).

"For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes" says Lord Jesus (John 5:21), so God raises the dead to life at God's desire, that is, God's choosing; moreover, dead make no choice to become life because dead is dead, and the natural man is dead (1 Corinthians 2:14, Ephesians 2:1-3).

The person who claims to choose God is a natural man.

Taken said:
And you? Sorry, but you preach an oxymoron...IN Christ, without YOU FREELY Choosing Him yourself, which IS compulsion.

1 Thes 1:
[4] Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

My brethren beloved are those WHO have freely by their own will, also chosen the Lord God Almighty as their God.

For Psalm 65:4, you wickedly subtracted "causest to approach unto thee" and added in "WHOM chooses God" (link to the post in this thread that shows where you committed this evil crime against God).

The psalmist wrote that God causes a man to approach God!

CAUSES, not man chooses God, but GOD CAUSES MAN.

In the New Testament, translated accurately to the Greek, Paul wrote "knowing, brethren beloved by God, His choice of you" (1 Thessalonians 1:4), so Paul states that God chooses man!

There is no scripture that states man chooses God, but right there is a scripture written by Paul that states God chooses man.

"You did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) says the Word of God, so persons do not choose God per the Word of God, Lord Jesus Christ!

God makes the choice of specific persons.

There, in your heart, you evilly subtract words from the very mouth of the Word of God.

Also, there is yet more of you wickedly adding to scripture.

In your heart you steal the glory of God in man's salvation, and God does not take kindly to stealing.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Aug 7, 2021

post said:
Clearly you mean that God is committing great sin, since you don't believe I have any free will of my own.

@post, you are documented committing great sin of adding to scripture and subtracting from scripture as this practical post and this additional example post illuminate this fact.

Every person starts out life as a slave to sin (Romans 6:20), and the Word of God says "I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment" (Matthew 12:36).

YOU ARE ACCOUNTABLE FOR YOUR SIN, NOT GOD, BUT YOU.

As this post in this thread shows, Paul compared and contrasted Adam to Jesus, and the flesh man precedes the spiritual man for every person

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Aug 7, 2021

Taken said:
Josh 24:
[14] Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD.
[15] And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

It is written "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve YHWH" (Joshua 24:15).

The "choose" in Joshua 24:15 applies to false gods only. The "as for me and my house, we will serve YHWH" in Joshua 24:15 is an imperative, NOT an interogative, NOT a clause with Joshua "choosing" God, NOT "as for me and my house, we will choose to serve YHWH", but specifically a declaration of action which is "serve".

YHWH is not mentioned by Joshua for the people to choose in Joshua 24:15, and this aligns up with the Lord Jesus Christ's words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15-19, includes salvation).

Joshua 24:15 is nothing about freewill (Largely, I use freewill to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ).

Not "as for me and my house, we will choose to serve YHWH" as per your heart's thoughts, but truly "as for me and my house, we will serve YHWH" per scripture.

Joshua 24:14 is commands, not choose, but commands, so this verse is nothing about freewill.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Kermos · Aug 7, 2021

post said:
You are not in any position to make such a claim until you understand Genesis 1-3 and we have already over the past couple months thoroughly demonstrated that you don't.

I have been urging you, let's start studying it, in order to be in a position where we can actually address your claims.

@post, you are documented committing great sin of adding to scripture and subtracting from scripture as this practical post and this additional example post illuminate this fact.

He who adds to scripture does not understand scripture, and you who subtract from scripture deceptively proclaim yourself an authority on scripture.

I have not added to scripture nor have I subtracted from scripture in this thread, not once.

Whem you wrote "I am not talking about free will" then you were off topic for this thread.

Still, no free will written in the creation account (Genesis 1:1-31 Genesis 2:1- 25 Genesis 3:1-24), with Paul in accord for he conveyed that Adam "not willingly" ate of the tree since Paul included all time prior to Paul's birth by his writing "until now" (Romans 8:20-22).

Just as the original post shows richly in scripture, Adam was not imparted free will, and no man thereafter was imparted free will neither.

Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

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