The problem with the thousand years?

Ronald Nolette · Sep 5, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
The definition is (Uncertain Affinity) not a literal thousand years on this earth as many claim

Strong’s Definitions
χίλιοι chílioi, khil'-ee-oy; plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand:—thousand.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 11x
The KJV translates Strong's G5507 in the following manner: thousand (11x).

You need to educate yourself.

Uncertain affinity does not have anything to do with literal or non -literal. You base it being no nliteral on a completely false assumption.
Affinity has to do with its origin for the word, not whether it is literal or not.

Ronald Nolette · Sep 5, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
There won't be a future Millennium on this earth, and Jesus won't be in a temple on this earth as you claim, Jesus warned the Church against your teaching

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah God Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Do you believe Jesus will physically retrurn to earth at all?

Truth7t7 · Sep 5, 2021

Ronald Nolette said:
But you said it was a day! but if that 1,000 years represents eternity then som efolks get resurrected at teh beginning of eternity and some folks at thee end of eternity.

Revelation 20
King James Version

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Or are you saying that 1,000 years = a day= Jesus eternal realm is taking place now?

There is one time of resurrection for all, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second) death resurrection has no power.

1.) (First) Resurrection To Life
2.) (Second) Resurrection To Damnation, The Second Death

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Truth7t7 · Sep 5, 2021

Ronald Nolette said:
Do you believe Jesus will physically retrurn to earth at all?

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Truth7t7 · Sep 5, 2021

Ronald Nolette said:
You need to educate yourself.

Uncertain affinity does not have anything to do with literal or non -literal. You base it being no nliteral on a completely false assumption.
Affinity has to do with its origin for the word, not whether it is literal or not.

Your Claim Is In "Error"

The Word (Thousand) represents (Uncertain Affinity) Not A Literal 1,000 Years As You Claim, Its Speaking Of The Lords Eternal Realm Of "No Time" Its That Simple

The Greek word "Chilioi" was used in 2 Peter 3:8 and in Revelation 20:1-7

The definition is (Uncertain Affinity) not a literal thousand years on this earth as many claim

Strong’s Definitions
χίλιοι chílioi, khil'-ee-oy; plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand:—thousand.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 11x
The KJV translates Strong's G5507 in the following manner: thousand (11x).

Thousand = Uncertain Affinity

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-7KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

friend of · Sep 5, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
Your Claim Is In "Error"

The Word (Thousand) represents (Uncertain Affinity) Not A Literal 1,000 Years As You Claim, Its Speaking Of The Lords Eternal Realm Of "No Time" Its That Simple

The Greek word "Chilioi" was used in 2 Peter 3:8 and in Revelation 20:1-7

The definition is (Uncertain Affinity) not a literal thousand years on this earth as many claim

Strong’s Definitions
χίλιοι chílioi, khil'-ee-oy; plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand:—thousand.

KJV Translation Count — Total: 11x
The KJV translates Strong's G5507 in the following manner: thousand (11x).

Thousand = Uncertain Affinity

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Revelation 20:1-7KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

The fact that it repeatedly says "1000 years" is a good enough reason to interpret it literally.

Truth7t7 · Sep 5, 2021

Marty fox said:
But all you did was just add Antiochus to other posts and say that this didn’t happen in the past and quoted some scriptures and add what you think that they mean. This doesn’t prove anything you just told me your interpretation of them which I disagree with.

I used to believe like you do and changed my view after much studying of other scriptures and history. I have considered and believed in other interpretations and my current view is the best conclusion after many years of studying.

What also added to my conclusion is the much deeper meaning and purpose of revelation. The end of the literal Old Testament age and the beginning of the New Testament age is a major event in the church age and I can’t see the bible not mentioning it if it was written after it actually happened.

Revelation is the fulfilment of the seven times over punishments on Israel in Leviticus 26

As you have been shown several times,the book of Revelation was written in 95-96 AD, as the testimony of the early church fathers have testified to this fact being at the reign of Emperor Domitian 81-96AD who sent John to the Island of Patmos

You will closely note you haven't provided no argument to this claim, because pre 70AD authorship is a fiction

The early church fathers saw a future evil human man (The Antichrist) from their 2nd, 3rd, 4th century lives, with quotations of Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) I will spare you citation of Justin Martyr, Iranaeus, Hippolytus, And others

Truth7t7 · Sep 5, 2021

friend of said:
The fact that it repeatedly says "1000 years" is a good enough reason to interpret it literally.

So God owns the cattle on just one thousand literal hills, not all hills?

Big Smiles!

Psalm 50:10KJV
10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

friend of · Sep 5, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
So God owns the cattle on just one thousand literal hills, not all hills?

Big Smiles!

Psalm 50:10KJV
10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

Not sure what that has to do with Revelation

bbyrd009 · Sep 5, 2021

Backlit said:
There's an idea that the flood is a type of the second coming

another problem i have with that is that neither Jesus, shuvu (OT) nor Jesus, hupo strepho can be Quoted, making "second coming" a fail, imo

"Second Coming - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Second_Coming

The Second Coming is a Christian and Islamic belief regarding the return of Jesus after his ascension to heaven about two thousand years ago..."

wow, Islamic too? Who knew?

Marty fox · Sep 5, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
As you have been shown several times,the book of Revelation was written in 95-96 AD, as the testimony of the early church fathers have testified to this fact being at the reign of Emperor Domitian 81-96AD who sent John to the Island of Patmos

You will closely note you haven't provided no argument to this claim, because pre 70AD authorship is a fiction

The early church fathers saw a future evil human man (The Antichrist) from their 2nd, 3rd, 4th century lives, with quotations of Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) I will spare you citation of Justin Martyr, Iranaeus, Hippolytus, And others

A quick google search will come up with many examples of showing that revelation was written before 70AD just like another google search will show many reasons that Revelation was written around 95AD.

Like I said I have books for example “Before Jerusalem fell”and have seen debates showing the earlier date. It doesn’t really matter because none of them or are any of the the early church fathers biblical authority.

It’s been said that Irenaeus made the mistake that Jesus was 50 when He died but it doesn’t matter only the bible does.

I choose to believe that the reason and purpose of revelation reveals the truth and what happened in history and I believed your way for many years but after further investigation I changed my view. If you want to believe your view that’s your parogative no need to debate this I believe what I believe.

Waiting on him · Sep 5, 2021

Marty fox said:
A quick google search will come up with many examples of showing that revelation was written before 70AD just like another google search will show many reasons that Revelation was written around 95AD.

Like I said I have books for example “Before Jerusalem fell”and have seen debates showing the earlier date. It doesn’t really matter because none of them or are any of the the early church fathers biblical authority.

It’s been said that Irenaeus made the mistake that Jesus was 50 when He died but it doesn’t matter only the bible does.

I choose to believe that the reason and purpose of revelation reveals the truth and what happened in history and I believed your way for many years but after further investigation I changed my view. If you want to believe your view that’s your parogative no need to debate this I believe what I believe.

Bottom line, Jesus had John to write these seven epistles to churches in that age that were experiencing great persecution. In these letters that He says for all the churches to read He explains He’s returning soon. In my opinion if soon to Him means almost two thousand years later, leaving those people destitute. That makes no since, and also in my opinion goes totally against His character.

that would be cruel to just leave all in the anticipation of Him returning to relieve them of what they were experiencing at that time.

I realize many church members here in the US today believe that they are suffering persecution and are under some type of tribulations that warrant Jesus’s return to be for this time, but this is just crazy. This is about the most spoiled generation since the beginning of all recorded history, the current definition for persecution seems to be if someone doesn’t see things as I do then their persecuting me.

Brakelite · Sep 5, 2021

bbyrd009 said:
another problem i have with that is that neither Jesus, shuvu (OT) nor Jesus, hupo strepho can be Quoted, making "second coming" a fail, imo

"Second Coming - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Second_Coming

The Second Coming is a Christian and Islamic belief regarding the return of Jesus after his ascension to heaven about two thousand years ago..."

wow, Islamic too? Who knew?

KJV 2 Peter 3:3-7
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

KJV John 6:38-40
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
KJV John 6:43-44, 47, 53-54, 61-64
43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
KJV Matthew 24:4-5, 13, 23, 26-27, 30-31
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Waiting on him · Sep 5, 2021

This is the only problem I see with the thousand years.

Revelation 22:7 KJV
[7] Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

bbyrd009 · Sep 5, 2021

Backlit said:
KJV 2 Peter 3:3-7
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

KJV John 6:38-40
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
KJV John 6:43-44, 47, 53-54, 61-64
43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
KJV Matthew 24:4-5, 13, 23, 26-27, 30-31
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

so then you cant find it either, i take it? Or something else in mind there?

Marty fox · Sep 5, 2021

Waiting on him said:
Bottom line, Jesus had John to write these seven epistles to churches in that age that were experiencing great persecution. In these letters that He says for all the churches to read He explains He’s returning soon. In my opinion if soon to Him means almost two thousand years later, leaving those people destitute. That makes no since, and also in my opinion goes totally against His character.

that would be cruel to just leave all in the anticipation of Him returning to relieve them of what they were experiencing at that time.

I realize many church members here in the US today believe that they are suffering persecution and are under some type of tribulations that warrant Jesus’s return to be for this time, but this is just crazy. This is about the most spoiled generation since the beginning of all recorded history, the current definition for persecution seems to be if someone doesn’t see things as I do then their persecuting me.

Amen this is overall a spoiled generation compared to the past

To me revelation was also a message and a warning to the church that a more severe persecution was coming but also a promise from Jesus that He would walk through it with them and that in the end the church would persevere and be victorious and their persecutors would be judged. These Jesus came in judgement and this is also what happened back in the first century.

Marty fox · Sep 6, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
As you have been shown several times,the book of Revelation was written in 95-96 AD, as the testimony of the early church fathers have testified to this fact being at the reign of Emperor Domitian 81-96AD who sent John to the Island of Patmos

You will closely note you haven't provided no argument to this claim, because pre 70AD authorship is a fiction

The early church fathers saw a future evil human man (The Antichrist) from their 2nd, 3rd, 4th century lives, with quotations of Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) I will spare you citation of Justin Martyr, Iranaeus, Hippolytus, And others

Couldn’t it be that the early church fathers were just following Irenaus lead?

Marty fox · Sep 6, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
As you have been shown several times,the book of Revelation was written in 95-96 AD, as the testimony of the early church fathers have testified to this fact being at the reign of Emperor Domitian 81-96AD who sent John to the Island of Patmos

You will closely note you haven't provided no argument to this claim, because pre 70AD authorship is a fiction

The early church fathers saw a future evil human man (The Antichrist) from their 2nd, 3rd, 4th century lives, with quotations of Daniel's (Little Horn), Paul's (Man Of Sin), And John's (The Beast) I will spare you citation of Justin Martyr, Iranaeus, Hippolytus, And others

I had to go back and dig this up from a while ago but here it is

The Book of Revelation Was Written Before AD 70

Truth7t7 · Sep 6, 2021

Waiting on him said:
This is the only problem I see with the thousand years.

Revelation 22:7 KJV
[7] Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

That took place in 70 AD, cant you see it?

Smiles

Truth7t7 · Sep 6, 2021

Marty fox said:
I had to go back and dig this up from a while ago but here it is

The Book of Revelation Was Written Before AD 70

Marty your citation of Alexander Gibb (Full Preterist) is a big smile, his claims are laughable, and his argument is in the "day care center" of theological debate

Gibb believes the (Second Coming) seen throughout the Revelation took place in 70AD (Full Preterist)

Marty do you also believe the second coming seen throughout the Revelation was fulfilled in 70AD?

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Revelation 22:20KJV
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

1. Iranaeus quote: the only grounds for a late date?
2.Latin does not instill accuracy?
3. It's possible church fathers based their info on Iranaeus?

Alexander Bigg

Introduction
In my opinion, John received the Revelation prior to AD 70, to encourage and prepare the Church for the events leading to the vision's imminent fulfillment. I believe therefore, Christ's second coming described in the Revelation took place during the ‘great and the dreadful day of the Lord’ in AD 70.

Irenaeus’ Quote: the only Grounds for the Late Date Theory
'We, therefore, do not venture to affirm anything with certainty respecting the name of antichrist. For were it necessary that his name should be clearly announced to the present age, it would have been declared by him who saw the revelation. For it has not been long since it was seen, but almost in our own generation, about the end of Domitian’s reign.’ (Irenaeus, Against Heresies).

I fail to understand why most scholars today confidently date the Revelation around AD 95 based on the above quote. The source of the statement is from a Latin translation, which does not instil confidence in its accuracy. I can only conclude it accommodates their 'end times' theory.

Several Church Fathers also wrote that Domitian (AD 51-AD 96) was Roman Emperor when John received the Revelation. However, it is possible that they too based their information on the writings of Irenaeus.

The problem with the thousand years?

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