Paul claimed 3 times that Rev 20:4 was a current reality.

[Timtofly]

Not to mention, the fact Revelation 19 also involves the 2nd coming, where is there anything in that entire chapter that remotely gives the impression the entire planet is literally engulfed in flames at the time?

Revelation 19 does not involve the Second Coming, thus no reason to mention fire at all. In fact 2 Peter 3 does not state a Second Coming either. Revelation 19 is a return only if Satan is allowed 42 months as the 8th kingdom after Jesus is declared the 7th kingdom on earth at the 7th Trumpet. The Second Coming already has happened before those 42 months. That is why fire will not be found at the battle of Armageddon.

The Day of the Lord is associated with a Second Coming because Jesus is on the earth for the Day of the Lord.

2 Peter 3 states all the works of earth are burned up. Not people, not the earth. If no people are burned up, the Second Coming would not be at the end of the Millennium when only humans are consumed by fire, and not the works of earth.

Man's works are all consumed by fire at the Second Coming when the Day of the Lord arrives. Only a percentage of humanity, those who rebel are consumed at the end of the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord is the reign of Jesus as King on the earth.

Many seem to want Satan's "little season" to be pronounced so they can prepare for the Second Coming. They want absolute persecution and martyrdom to wake them up and prepare them for a Second Coming, or so it seems.

There is something I have noticed in life that patience and procrastination accomplishes about the same thing, except obedience to God. One can be obedient and patient. Or one can procrastinate their obedience, and time still passes. Jonah procrastinated while God was patient waiting for Jonah. Both patience and procrastination see time passing. Then we have God's longsuffering that leaves us in Adam's dead condition for thousands of years.

The church was to be obedient to God through good times and bad times. Persecution and trouble, wars and martyrdom were expected for a long period of time, while the Gospel, instead of the Law went out into all the earth. Not just at the end to prepare us for the Second Coming.

Satan's little season is not given to Satan to take over the world and destroy what Jesus has been accomplishing. Nor is the mystery Babylonian empire a sign the Second Coming is about to happen.

 

[Timtofly]

So now your argument is that Jews were all over the Roman Empire therefore John didn’t write to the Jews? Shouldn’t you be trying to argue that Jews weren’t all throughout the Roman Empire thus proving John had to be writing to Gentiles?

I am saying that Revelation was written to churches who were neither called Jews nor Gentiles, but in Christ all are one.

You are trying to justify the writings of Josephus and insert them into God's Word.

Actually, I said the circumcision was all the lost sheep of Israel. You are still trying to create this Jewish state scattered throughout the Roman empire. The diaspora happened after 70AD, even according to you. Many fled in 66 according to Josephus and Jesus.

You are making Revelation as only being about the Jews. I am pointing out it is about the church.

 

[Zao is life]

What you seem not to understand is that when Christ promises whoever lives and believes in Him eternal/everlasting life He is not speaking of our physical body, but our spirit that shall NEVER die.


NO, Jesus did NOT say I am the resurrection of the body, you're reading your doctrine into the verse.

No. You have taken the meaning of the word anastais out of the verse in order to add your own doctrine. The word anastasis in the New Testament refers (always and only) to the resurrection of the body.

Christ tells us very clearly that He is the RESURRECTION and the life.

And the word anastasis is the word used. Meaning the resurrection of the body.

This proves the first resurrection man MUST have part in before they die is the resurrection of Christ because it is through His resurrection, which is the first to never die again, t

And it's the resurrection of the body, which is what Jesus was telling Martha about.

“Jesus said to her, Your brother shall [anístēmi] rise again. Martha said to Him, I know that he shall [ἀνίστημι anístēmi] rise in the [ἀνάστασις anástasis] resurrection at the last day. Jesus said to her, I am the [ἀνάστασις anástasis] Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live.”

Whenever it talks about rising again from death, there isn't a verse in the New Testament where the word anístēmi is not referring to the resurrection of the body; and there isn't a verse in the New Testament where the word anástasis is NOT referring to the resurrection of the body:

“Jesus said to her, Your brother shall [anístēmi] rise again. Martha said to Him, I know that he shall [ἀνίστημι anístēmi] rise in the [ἀνάστασις anástasis] resurrection of the body at the last day. Jesus said to her, I am the [ἀνάστασις anástasis] Resurrection of the body and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live. And whoever is alive in the body [záō] AND believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"

And in the long list of verses where it's found, the word záō (alive | living) is always referring either to the living God, or to humans who are alive in the body. The word is never used in reference to anyone who has died | fallen asleep | is not alive and living in the body.

Here is the full list of every scripture using the words anístēmi and anástasis:

The Resurrection of the Body

M ankind was created to live on the created earth, in a created body. We were not created to "go to heaven when we die". That's not God'...

zaoislife.blogspot.com

And here is the list of the New Testament verses using the word záō:

The záō of humans = living = alive in the body

Whenever used in reference to humans, z áō is never speaking of anything else. M ankind was created to live on the created earth, in a cre...

zaoislife.blogspot.com

Indeed and in truth, and though you and they will never accept it, yourself and all those who teach what you do have removed the sense and only meaning of what Jesus said to Martha, corrupting the context and betraying the promise of Christ in that portion of scripture, and you have added your own doctrine to the text, and are teaching another gospel, which is foreign to the gospel, being an addition to the gospel based on taking away from the gospel.

 

[grafted branch]

I am saying that Revelation was written to churches who were neither called Jews nor Gentiles, but in Christ all are one

If all are one in Christ and there is nether Jew nor Greek then how can there be a time of the Gentiles? Why would Paul continue to make a distinction between Jew and Gentile if there were only believers and unbelievers? And why would it seem good to the Holy Spirit in Acts 15:28-29 that a different burden was put on the Gentiles than the Jews?

Answer:they were all one in that they were saved by the blood of the Lamb but they were different in the burden that was placed on them. It’s clear there was a difference, and John wrote to those who were under a different burden, which the Holy Spirit calls good, and he wrote according to the agreement made in Galatians 2:9.

You have yet to give any Biblical evidence that John stopped going to the circumcision.

 

[Timtofly]

Revelation 20 only shows he was bound in the pit, so when Revelation 17:8 says was, is not, and shall ascend, it could simply mean he was free to come and go out of the pit (his abode), he is not now allowed to come out, and he will ascend back out of the pit in the future.

One cannot use Revelation 17 to define Revelation 20.

Especially if one thinks Satan could come and go as he pleases. Being bound would prevent that ability to just come and go.

Satan "not being" means he was never a kingdom on earth. Here is Revelation 17:7-11

"I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."

Is the word beast talking about the entire beast or one of the heads? This beast was mentioned in Revelation 12 as a dragon. In Revelation 13 as coming out of the sea, ie humanity. Then in Revelation 17 as coming out of the earth, ie the pit.

The body of the beast is what equates to "was, is not". The body only represents Satan's involvement with all empires, Babylonian, Medes and Persian, Greece, Roman, and the ten toes. These first five already fallen, and the 6th one having a deadly wound. 7 heads, but then Satan is not the 7th kingdom, but the 8th kingdom after a 7th Kingdom is declared, not part of the beast at all.

In Revelation 12, Satan is the beast that was, the dragon with 7 heads. In Revelation 13, Satan is not, the beast coming out of sea representing humanity from Daniel until the Second Coming, and the Second Coming is when the 6th head is healed by Satan. But Satan is separated from this beast even though he is still part of the beast. Then in Revelation 17, that last 7th head is Satan as the 8th kingdom controlling earth for 42 months.

In Revelation 12 the dragon represents Satan. In Revelation 13 this beast represents human government. In Revelation 17 we see the final death blow that ends this scarlet beast along with Satan. The ten horns represent the time between the Second Coming and the battle of Armageddon. The stars representing the angels that rebelled at the time of Adam and Eve.

Now should we take this point about Satan "is not" to mean he was bound and totally out of commission? Not necessarily. Because the dragon does not solely represent Satan, but also human government. The symbolism of this dragon and 7 headed beast in Revelation 20 shows that this binding can only happen after all human government itself has been removed and defeated.

When the 7th Trumpet sounds and Jesus is declared as the 7th Kingdom, that is the end of all human government on earth, thus the binding of the dragon also incorporates all of Adam's dead corruptible flesh as being bound and not available during those thousand years. The dragon is not loosed at the end, so dead humans are not returning to earth with Satan. Only Satan is loosed to deceive. That dragon, via the old serpent is symbolism of the connection between Adam and Eve's fallen dead state with Satan the deceiver, over a 6,000 year span of humanity.

 

[rwb]

No. You have taken the meaning of the word anastais out of the verse in order to add your own doctrine. The word anastasis in the New Testament refers (always and only) to the resurrection of the body.




And the word anastasis is the word used. Meaning the resurrection of the body.



And it's the resurrection of the body, which is what Jesus was telling Martha about.

“Jesus said to her, Your brother shall [anístēmi] rise again. Martha said to Him, I know that he shall [ἀνίστημι anístēmi] rise in the [ἀνάστασις anástasis] resurrection at the last day. Jesus said to her, I am the [ἀνάστασις anástasis] Resurrection and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live.”

Whenever it talks about rising again from death, there isn't a verse in the New Testament where the word anístēmi is not referring to the resurrection of the body; and there isn't a verse in the New Testament where the word anástasis is NOT referring to the resurrection of the body:

“Jesus said to her, Your brother shall [anístēmi] rise again. Martha said to Him, I know that he shall [ἀνίστημι anístēmi] rise in the [ἀνάστασις anástasis] resurrection of the body at the last day. Jesus said to her, I am the [ἀνάστασις anástasis] Resurrection of the body and the Life! He who believes in Me, though he die, yet he shall live. And whoever is alive in the body [záō] AND believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"

And in the long list of verses where it's found, the word záō (alive | living) is always referring either to the living God, or to humans who are alive in the body. The word is never used in reference to anyone who has died | fallen asleep | is not alive and living in the body.

Here is the full list of every scripture using the words anístēmi and anástasis:

The Resurrection of the Body

M ankind was created to live on the created earth, in a created body. We were not created to "go to heaven when we die". That's not God'...

zaoislife.blogspot.com

And here is the list of the New Testament verses using the word záō:

The záō of humans = living = alive in the body

Whenever used in reference to humans, z áō is never speaking of anything else. M ankind was created to live on the created earth, in a cre...

zaoislife.blogspot.com

Indeed and in truth, and though you and they will never accept it, yourself and all those who teach what you do have removed the sense and only meaning of what Jesus said to Martha, corrupting the context and betraying the promise of Christ in that portion of scripture, and you have added your own doctrine to the text, and are teaching another gospel, which is foreign to the gospel, being an addition to the gospel based on taking away from the gospel.

How many times must I tell you that I agree with you? I know that anastasis is a bodily/physical resurrection from the dead! That's why in life, before we physically die, we MUST have part in the bodily/physical resurrection life through Christ to overcome the second death. Because Christ is the FIRST RESURRECTION from bodily/physical death to bodily/physical life who shall never die again. And when in life we partake of the resurrection life of Christ when we are born again of His Spirit we too have overcome the second death.

 

[PinSeeker]

Where we differ, I believe the hardening in part must be removed before the last of the Gentiles come in.

Well, that's fine that you believe that, RWB, and there's no need to quibble. However, I would ask, do you just believe that because you believe it? Or do you have something in God's Word that you think backs that up?

The time to be saved for all people is now. This is the time given the Church, as Satan is sealed in the pit when the elect of God from every nation shall be saved.

Grace and peace to you, RWB... you crazy ammillennialist, you.

 

[PinSeeker]

Determining if Jews are claiming Christ as their Savior isn’t something that can be accurately accomplished.

If they claim Christ as their Savior ~ and I know quite a few that have come to do so; we call them Messianic Jesus ~ then I'd say that's pretty accurate. LOL!

Also determining what constitutes a large number of Jews is impossible.

Oh, my...

The next problem is what exactly is a Jew that the Bible is referring to?

Well, now that's a really good question in and of itself, but is really irrelevant to what you and I are talking, here, GB. We're talking about ethnic Jews, who do not accept Christ as the Messiah. And right now, that's a large majority of them.

Your statement “when we see large numbers of Jews start to acknowledge and proclaim Christ as their Lord and Savior” sounds good on the surface but it can never be determined.

I'm talking not about specific numbers, but about an en masse movement among Jewish folks to belief in Jesus, Grafted Branch. That can and will be easily seen.

How can you see the day approaching or stay out of darkness if no one can keep track of how many Jews are believing in Jesus?

<eyeroll> Okay, enough is enough.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[grafted branch]

I'm talking not about specific numbers, but about an en masse movement among Jewish folks to belief in Jesus, Grafted Branch. That can and will be easily seen.

As I posted above, the Jewish website Chabad.org, which I would think would be giving an accurate description of what a Jew is, says Unlike a race, you can get in, but unlike religion, once you’re in you can’t get out.

You say it has to be an en masse movement but are you accounting for those who are Jews but don’t identify as Jews? Again it’s easy to say but hard or impossible to quantify.

One other point I didn’t mention yet is that once Satan is loosed he is going to be deceiving people. Since anyone can become a Jew, per Chabad.org, then why wouldn’t Satan simply deceive people into becoming a Jew who doesn’t believe in Jesus?

If Satan did this there would be no way to know if he was loosed or not, thus preventing any Amill from seeing the day approaching. Certainly Satan is thinking about these things after being bound up for 2,000 years or so.

 

[rwb]

Well, that's fine that you believe that, RWB, and there's no need to quibble. However, I would ask, do you just believe that because you believe it? Or do you have something in God's Word that you think backs that up?

I've already shown you from the Scriptures why there cannot be a mass conversion of ethnic Jews to Christ after the fullness of the Gentiles have come into the Kingdom of God. Do you not agree the mystery hidden of old and made known in the new was that Gentiles would complete the Kingdom of God?

 

[rwb]

As I posted above, the Jewish website Chabad.org, which I would think would be giving an accurate description of what a Jew is, says Unlike a race, you can get in, but unlike religion, once you’re in you can’t get out.

You say it has to be an en masse movement but are you accounting for those who are Jews but don’t identify as Jews? Again it’s easy to say but hard or impossible to quantify.

One other point I didn’t mention yet is that once Satan is loosed he is going to be deceiving people. Since anyone can become a Jew, per Chabad.org, then why wouldn’t Satan simply deceive people into becoming a Jew who doesn’t believe in Jesus?

If Satan did this there would be no way to know if he was loosed or not, thus preventing any Amill from seeing the day approaching. Certainly Satan is thinking about these things after being bound up for 2,000 years or so.

The real problem I find with the opinion of a mass conversion of ethnic Jews after the last Gentile has been saved is how to reconcile that with Paul saying more than once that only the remnant of Jews would be saved? Since the advent of Christ, Jews, like every other ethnic people of the earth have opportunity to turn to Christ in repentance and faith to be saved. But they must do so before time shall be no longer, when the Kingdom of God in heaven is complete and there shall be no more people on earth to save. Nowhere do we read of this mass conversion of Jews at or near the end of time.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Revelation 20:4
4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This is one of the most controversial verses in the entire bible and a lot of Christians believe that it has to be a future event because they believe that it's at the second coming. But according to Paul he stated three times that it was a current reality back in his day.

Here below are the three texts.

Ephesians 2:4-6
4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,

In the verses above Paul states that we were already made alive, raised up and seated with Christ in the heavenly realms.

Colossians 3:1
Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Once again Paul states that we have already been raised up with Christ.

Romans 5:17
17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Finally in the verse above Paul states that we reign in life through Jesus.

All of these verses were a current reality while alive in the physical body almost two thousand years ago. If it was a reality back, then it is still a reality today.

Paul ties three events directly to Revelation 20:4 "that we have been made alive", "seated with Christ in the heavenly realms" and that "we reign (in life) through Jesus".

Why do so many Christians not accept this even though Paul declares it? Because they are focused on it being physical not spiritual. They focus on the physical because it mentions saints that were beheaded by the beast and the thousand years.

But let's let scripture interpret scripture. Paul I believe teaches that its spiritual and what John is saying in Revelation 20:4 is that even though the saints are beheaded they still live and reign spiritually the soul doesn't die with the body. It's a promise even though you may die for Jesus you will still live and reign spiritually. The beast can kill the body but not the soul.

Thus, according to Paul we reign in life now and have been for almost two thousand years we are not limited to a literal thousand years God has a better longer plan.

1. "Already raised up" is true, spiritually. But we have not been raised bodily, nor have we received eternal bodies yet.
2. His earthly reign will be physical!
Christ is not bound to years in heaven, then the 1000 years will begin ON EARTH.
As he ascended in the clouds so shall He descend. Every eye will see Him and He will physically stand on the Mt. Of Olives:
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. Zech. 14:4
3. Revelation was written around 95 AD. John was not talking about anything in the past. Paul died in the 60's.
4. John saw visions of men on earth getting their heads chopped off as is going on now in Muslim nations. That has been their style of persecution/ torture for those whom refuse to convert. Children and babies have recently been decapitated by Hamas in Gaza.

From Jerusalem Post, Zvika Klein 1/12/24 "... The Face of Genocide"
"The testimonials of survivors of the massacre, as well as of police and ZAKA volunteers, portray a horror movie that Alfred Hitchcock could not have created. Heads were cut off. Women were shot in their genitals. Breasts were brutally cut off, and the terrorists played catch with them. Children burned alive while tied to each other with an electronic cable."

 

[PinSeeker]

As I posted above, the Jewish website Chabad.org, which I would think would be giving an accurate description of what a Jew is, says Unlike a race, you can get in, but unlike religion, once you’re in you can’t get out.

You say it has to be an en masse movement but are you accounting for those who are Jews but don’t identify as Jews? Again it’s easy to say but hard or impossible to quantify.

Ugh. Jewish people are Jewish people, GB, whether Hasidic, or Orthodox, or any other type, or if they consider themselves "not religious" or are unaffiliated with any of the different classifications of Judaism. Ethnic Jews, GB. Good Lord. Are you trying to catch me in some kind of inconsistency? Or are you just trying to be difficult and argumentative? Come on, man.

One other point I didn’t mention yet is that once Satan is loosed he is going to be deceiving people.

Yeah, I disagree with that. Or, at least, he won't have to try too hard, because they will already be deceived. As Christ Himself says, if the Father gives anyone to Him, they are then one of His sheep, and He will not lose even one.

Since anyone can become a Jew, per Chabad.org, then why wouldn’t Satan simply deceive people into becoming a Jew who doesn’t believe in Jesus?

LOL! Hoo boy. Again, are you just trying to be difficult and argumentative? Come on, man.

If Satan did this there would be no way to know if he was loosed or not, thus preventing any Amill from seeing the day approaching. Certainly Satan is thinking about these things after being bound up for 2,000 years or so.

LOL! You're an interesting person, GB.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

The real problem I find with the opinion of a mass conversion of ethnic Jews after the last Gentile has been saved is how to reconcile that with Paul saying more than once that only the remnant of Jews would be saved? Since the advent of Christ, Jews, like every other ethnic people of the earth have opportunity to turn to Christ in repentance and faith to be saved. But they must do so before time shall be no longer, when the Kingdom of God in heaven is complete and there shall be no more people on earth to save. Nowhere do we read of this mass conversion of Jews at or near the end of time.

Paul explicitly indicates a sequence in Romans 11:25-26, where the fullness of the Gentiles come in to Israel, and then the partial hardening is removed. There are some Jews coming to Christ, and actually probably at an increasing rate. So, if you want to say both happen over roughly (or even not so roughly) over the same period of time (over the millennium), than I'm perfectly fine with that. In that case, it is not a hard one and then the other. But I do think ~ and many theologians and commentators think this, too; I am surely not alone ~ that there will be a mass conversion of Jews to Christ over a very short period of time at the end of the age.

And I would just ask, is this really all that important? I say no... Should anybody really have any problem? I think not... I mean... come on, bro.

Grace and peace to you, RWB.

 

[PinSeeker]

Christ is not bound to years in heaven...

Agree...

...then the 1000 years will begin ON EARTH.

Disagree. The thousand years is His millennial reign, and He rules through that age from heaven. When the millennium is over, He will return, and His eternal reign ~ with us here on earth, in which sin and death will be completely defeated ~ will begin. And have, of course, no end.

Is not your King Christ Jesus right now, Ronald? I say He is...

Grace and peace to you.

 

[rwb]

Paul explicitly indicates a sequence in Romans 11:25-26, where the fullness of the Gentiles come in to Israel, and then the partial hardening is removed. There are some Jews coming to Christ, and actually probably at an increasing rate. So, if you want to say both happen over roughly (or even not so roughly) over the same period of time (over the millennium), than I'm perfectly fine with that. In that case, it is not a hard one and then the other. But I do think ~ and many theologians and commentators think this, too; I am surely not alone ~ that there will be a mass conversion of Jews to Christ over a very short period of time at the end of the age.

And I would just ask, is this really all that important? I say no... Should anybody really have any problem? I think not... I mean... come on, bro.

Grace and peace to you, RWB.

It seems it's important to you Pinseeker? Paul does not contradict himself, speaking of his kinsmen according to the flesh, Paul writes, "only the remnant shall be saved." You can read the words of Paul anyway you like, but that does not change the FACT that Paul does not say after the fullness of Gentiles come in all ethnic Jews will suddenly have a mass conversion to Christ and all of them shall be saved. You have even said "all Israel" is the Israel of God that includes both Jews and Gentiles of faith.

Grace and peace to you as well, Pinseeker.

 

[Timtofly]

If all are one in Christ and there is nether Jew nor Greek then how can there be a time of the Gentiles? Why would Paul continue to make a distinction between Jew and Gentile if there were only believers and unbelievers? And why would it seem good to the Holy Spirit in Acts 15:28-29 that a different burden was put on the Gentiles than the Jews?

Answer:they were all one in that they were saved by the blood of the Lamb but they were different in the burden that was placed on them. It’s clear there was a difference, and John wrote to those who were under a different burden, which the Holy Spirit calls good, and he wrote according to the agreement made in Galatians 2:9.

You have yet to give any Biblical evidence that John stopped going to the circumcision.

You are the one that has to prove those churches in Revelation are only Jewish people.

I pointed out that Revelation 1 explains John was stuck on an Island and not going anywhere. The churches listed were the Words from the mouth of Jesus, not some thought you think John came up with, based on his personal desires, decades earlier, even if led by the Holy Spirit. God can change one's direction, no? You are trying to prove that Jesus was only addressing a group of Jews.

Also the Jews were all cut off. They were as wild as the Gentiles, so if anything you have to accept they were no different than the Gentiles from God's perspective. Yet even to this day Judaism is so closely related to the OT Scriptures that it would be hard to differentiate between Jews today and Jews of the first century. Being based on the OT is still God's Word just the same as those based on the NT. The problem as Paul posted was their lack of acceptance of the NT, ie the Gospel. So they are enemies regarding the NT. But they certainly are not enemies regarding election which is an OT principle. The church has no monopoly over the term election.

Now some claim that monopoly by calling themselves "Israel". But the OT was election based on birth, that is what being a natural branch means. So if God chose to keep redeeming Israel even if still in unbelief even though cut off, how can you or any one question how God works and thinks?

Once again you are avoiding your own unproven point that Revelation has anything to do with 70AD.

The time of the Gentiles is about inclusion into the election. No one is singling out Gentiles as being special.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Agree...


Disagree. The thousand years is His millennial reign, and He rules through that age from heaven. When the millennium is over, He will return, and His eternal reign ~ with us here on earth, in which sin and death will be completely defeated ~ will begin. And have, of course, no end.

Is not your King Christ Jesus right now, Ronald? I say He is...

Grace and peace to you.

Yes, Jesus is Lord, King, Creator, Messiah, Savior, God.
I am familiar with most Pre-Millennial views, the Amillennial view, but not yours.
Yours seem to be a literal view of the Millennial Kingdom, except for where Christ will rule this Kingdom from, Heaven?
Is that correct?
If so, I have several Scriptures to share about Jesus literal return and literal earthly reign.

Otherwise, be more specific.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

It seems it's important to you Pinseeker? Paul does not contradict himself, speaking of his kinsmen according to the flesh, Paul writes, "only the remnant shall be saved." You can read the words of Paul anyway you like, but that does not change the FACT that Paul does not say after the fullness of Gentiles come in all ethnic Jews will suddenly have a mass conversion to Christ and all of them shall be saved. You have even said "all Israel" is the Israel of God that includes both Jews and Gentiles of faith.

Grace and peace to you as well, Pinseeker.

The remnant is 1/3 which would be of the 15+ million so called Jews in the world. This 1/3 is considered as (all Israel) in Romans 11:26. ( see Zech. 13:8-9)

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

@PinSeeker

The Millennial Kingdom

It is important to mention Covenants briefly. Covenants need to be fulfilled, specifically to Israel, to Jesus, to nations and creation during Jesus’ 1,000-year reign. The Palestinian Covenant, also called the Land Covenant (Deuteronomy 30:1-10) Abraham did go to the Promised Land, he did have...

www.christianityboard.com

The Millennial Kingdom

It is important to mention Covenants briefly. Covenants need to be fulfilled, specifically to Israel, to Jesus, to nations and creation during Jesus’ 1,000-year reign. The Palestinian Covenant, also called the Land Covenant (Deuteronomy 30:1-10) Abraham did go to the Promised Land, he did have...

www.christianityboard.com