Do you accept this a Biblical fact or fiction?:

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michaelvpardo

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Why did you not answer my question Mike? If Jesus is God, then he obviously lied at Mk 10:40 and 13:32, so what hope do we have?

You recognize that the Father is God, the Bible reveals Jehovah is God, therefore the Father is Jehovah. Now if you can please answer my question.
Jesus didn't lie in those passages or in any passage. As a man He acknowledged the Father (not Yah havah) as the eternal spirit of God, and as His Son acknowledged that He was in the Father and the Father in Him. A father can be a son and a son can be a father, these are familial roles. A man's son is not him, but is of him and shares his essence, a man being a man, not a bird or a fish. The only begotten Son of God at the very least shares the essence of God and is God, for there is only One God who will not share His glory with another yet freely shares it with Himself.
Your carnal mind will never understand this, it isn't even possible that it could. You must be born again.
 

Ronald Nolette

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No. But God worked miracles of healing and raising people from death through prophets and the apostles and other Christians too - but that does not mean that they were not mere men and must have actually been God. Your logic is flawed. Consider Exodus 14:21 (WEB):

Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and Yahweh caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided.​

It was God who performed the miracle, not Moses. It has always been that way - no man has the power to perform miracles, not even Jesus because during his earthly ministry he too was just a man - Philppians 2 (WEB):

7) but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men.
8) And being found in human form, he humbled himself, becoming obedient to the point of death, yes, the death of the cross.​

And being human he endured temptations to sin just like all humans are tempted:

Hebrews 4:15 (WEB): For we don’t have a high priest who can’t be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, but one who has been in all points tempted like we are, yet without sin.​

But God cannot be tempted to sin:

James 1:13 (WEB): Let no man say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God,” for God can’t be tempted by evil, and he himself tempts no one.​

Consider when Jesus raised Lazarus from the grave/tomb, John 11 (WEB):
41) So they took away the stone from the place where the dead man was lying. Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, “Father, I thank you that you listened to me.
42) I know that you always listen to me, but because of the multitude standing around I said this, that they may believe that you sent me.”
43) When he had said this, he cried with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!”​

Jesus had prayed to God to ask Him to restore Lazarus to life - and it was God who raised Lazarus and performed all of the miracles that Jesus did. As Jesus said, "I have shown you many good works from my Father” (John 10:32), and "If I don’t do the works of my Father, don’t believe me. But if I do them, though you don’t believe me, believe the works; that you may know and believe that the Father is in me, and I in the Father” (John 10:37-38). As others in this thread have said, give God the glory!


He was speaking God's words, as the Word of God, as a prophet - prophetically. "This Jesus God raised up, to which we all are witnesses" (Acts 2:32). Again, give God the glory!


Well the fact Jesus was tempted yet resisted shows He is God! You are too wooden in your thinking of tempted. Satan tempted God to do evil to Job. But God caanot succumb to temptation just like jesus was allowed to feel all we feel and endure all we endure for one purpose- so He would act as a merciful High Priest.

God the son left heaven and became man. I accept He was fully god and fully man. I cannot argue how much man and how much God!

See I agree with you thatr teh Father is above the Son, I have established that and even showed you that is SCripture. But that does not negate that jesus in nature is just as divine as His Father, though inferior to the Father in position. Why you and all others refuse to directly address this is a mystery.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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well the point may have been that Yah’s “eternity” is diff from ours?
oh, that wasnt directed at you! But we read the Bible via a translator, so some stuff gets “declared” in Scripture thats not really in There? Dont accept what you read in Englyshe with confidence! At least imo. Ha we even have a passage about “confidence” right, We are “confident,” I say, and even wish…

I read in English with confidence because I also have at teh ready many Hebrew and Greek grammar guides. I also have at the ready Hebrew and Greek texts to look at!

Several English translations will not steer one wrong doctrinally (many will) . But translations always cause deeper meanings to be watererd down or even missed because what we say with words- Koine Greek says with verb endings of which there are 590 and all have a nuanced difference.
 
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michaelvpardo

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And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory. 1 Timothy 3:16
My personal apologies to the pretenders, but the mystery is given to the body of Christ alone, not to the world, so that salvation may be by faith and not by sight, not by reason, not by the will of man, but by the will of God alone. Amen and Amen.
 
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David in NJ

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And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory. 1 Timothy 3:16
My personal apologies to the pretenders, but the mystery is given to the body of Christ alone, not to the world, so that salvation may be by faith and not by sight, not by reason, not by the will of man, but by the will of God alone. Amen and Amen.

AMEN AMEN AMEN -
No one can understand ELOHIM except to those who ELOHIM desires to reveal HIMSELF to.
This process of Revelation from Elohim to us is His Choice and His Delight - and His Delight is the SON and the SON's Delight is the HOLY SPIRIT sent to us to reveal HIMSELF to us and through us.

i am completely shocked at christians who say the Holy Spirit was only for the Apostles as stated in the Gospel of John.
i am like, are you crazy............
John ch 17 is BEAUTIFUL MAGNIFICENT ETERNALLY GLORIOUS
 
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tigger 2

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And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory. 1 Timothy 3:16
My personal apologies to the pretenders, but the mystery is given to the body of Christ alone, not to the world, so that salvation may be by faith and not by sight, not by reason, not by the will of man, but by the will of God alone. Amen and Amen.


........................................................
1 Tim. 3:16

As this is translated in the KJV it makes Paul say that Jesus is God “manifest in the flesh.”

Although the KJV translates 1 Tim. 3:16 with “God” as above, nearly all other translations today use a word which refers, not to God, but to Jesus: “he (NIV; RSV; NRSV; JB; NJB; REB; NAB [‘70]; AT; GNB; CBW; and Beck’s translation), “he who (ASV; NASB; NEB; MLB; BBE; Phillips; and Moffatt),who,” orwhich.” Even the equally old Douay version has “which was manifested in the flesh.” All the very best modern NT texts by trinitarian scholars (including Westcott and Hort, Nestle, and the text by the United Bible Societies) have the NT Greek word ὃς (“who”) here instead of θεὸς (“God”).Why do the very best trinitarian scholars support this NON-trinitarian translation of 1 Tim. 3:16?

Noted Bible scholar Dr. Frederick C. Grant writes:

“A capital example [of NT manuscript changes] is found in 1 Timothy 3:16, where ‘OS’ (OC or ὃς, who’) was later taken for theta sigma with a bar above, which stood for theos (θεὸς, ‘god’). Since the new reading suited …. the orthodox doctrine of the church [trinitarian, at this later date], it got into many of the later manuscripts .....” – p. 656, Encyclopedia Americana, vol. 3, 1957 ed. (This same statement by Dr. Grant was still to be found in the latest Encyclopedia Americana that I examined – the 1990 ed., pp.696-698, vol. 3.)

A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament by the United Bible Societies (1971 ed.) tells why the trinitarian UBS Committee chose ὃς [‘who’ or ‘he who’] as the original reading in their NT text for this verse:

“it is supported by the earliest and best uncials.” And, “Thus, no uncial (in the first hand [by the ORIGINAL writer]) earlier than the eighth or ninth century supports θεὸς [“God”]; all ancient versions presuppose ὃς [or OC, “who” - masc.] or [“which” - neut.]; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century [370 A.D.] testifies to the reading θεὸς. The reading θεὸς arose either (a) accidentally, through the misreading of OC as ΘC, or (b) deliberately....” - p. 641.

In actuality it appears to be a combination of both (with the emphasis on the latter). You see, the word ὃς was written in the most ancient manuscripts as OC (“C” being a common form for the ancient Greek letter “S” at that time). Most often at this time the word for God (θεὸς) was written in abbreviated form as ΘC. However, to show that it was an abbreviated form a straight line, or bar, was always drawn above ΘC. So no copyist should have mistaken ὃς (or OC) for ΘC, in spite of their similarities, simply because of the prominent bar which appeared over the one and not over the other.

What may have happened was discovered by John J. Wetstein in 1714. As he was carefully examining one of the oldest NT manuscripts then known (the Alexandrine Manuscript in London) he noticed at 1 Tim. 3:16 that the word originally written there was OC but that a horizontal stroke from one of the words written on the other side of the manuscript showed through very faintly in the middle of the O. This still would not qualify as an abbreviation for θεὸς, of course, but Wetstein discovered that some person at a much later date and in a different style from the original writer had deliberately added a bar above the original word! Anyone copying from this manuscript after it had been deliberately changed would be likely to incorporate the counterfeit ΘC [with bar above it] into his new copy (especially since it reflected his own trinitarian views)!

Of course, since Wetstein’s day many more ancient NT manuscripts have been discovered and none of them before the eighth century A.D. have been found with ΘC (“God”) at this verse!

Trinitarian scholar Murray J. Harris also concludes: “The strength of the external evidence favoring OC [‘who’], along with considerations of transcriptional and intrinsic probability, have prompted textual critics virtually unanimously to regard OC as the original text, a judgment reflected in NA(26) [Nestle-Aland text] and UBS (1,2,3) [United Bible Societies text] (with a ‘B’ rating) [also the Westcott and Hort text]. Accordingly, 1 Tim 3:16 is not an instance of the Christological [‘Jesus is God’] use of θεὸς.” - Jesus as God, p. 268, Baker Book House, 1992.

And very trinitarian (Southern Baptist) NT Greek scholar A. T. Robertson wrote about this scripture:

He who (hos [or OC in the original text]). The correct text, not theos (God) the reading of the Textus Receptus ... nor ho (neuter relative [pronoun]), agreeing with [the neuter] musterion [‘mystery’] the reading of Western documents.” - p. 577, Vol. 4, Word Pictures in the New Testament, Broadman Press.

And even trinitarian NT Greek scholar, Daniel B. Wallace uses the relative pronoun ὃς (‘who’) in this scripture and tells us:

“The textual variant θεὸς [‘god’] in the place of ὃς [‘who’ or ‘he who’] has been adamantly defended by some scholars, particularly those of the ‘majority text’ school. Not only is such a reading poorly attested, but the syntactical argument that ‘mystery’ (μυστήριον) being a neuter noun, cannot be followed by the masculine pronoun (ὃς) is entirely without weight. As attractive theologically [for trinitarians, of course] as the reading θεὸς may be, it is spurious. To reject it is not to deny the deity of Christ, of course; it is just to deny any explicit reference in this text.” [italicized emphasis is by Wallace]. - pp. 341-342, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, Zondervan, 1996.

The correct rendering of 1 Tim. 3:16, then, is: “He who was revealed in the flesh ….” - NASB. Cf. ASV; RSV; NRSV; NAB; JB; NJB; NIV; NEB; REB; ESV; Douay-Rheims; TEV; CEV; BBE; NLV; God’s Word; New Century Version; Holman NT; ISV NT; Lexham English Bible; The Message; Weymouth; Moffatt; etc.
 

David in NJ

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1 Tim. 3:16

As this is translated in the KJV it makes Paul say that Jesus is God “manifest in the flesh.”

Although the KJV translates 1 Tim. 3:16 with “God” as above, nearly all other translations today use a word which refers, not to God, but to Jesus: “he (NIV; RSV; NRSV; JB; NJB; REB; NAB [‘70]; AT; GNB; CBW; and Beck’s translation), “he who (ASV; NASB; NEB; MLB; BBE; Phillips; and Moffatt),who,” orwhich.” Even the equally old Douay version has “which was manifested in the flesh.” All the very best modern NT texts by trinitarian scholars (including Westcott and Hort, Nestle, and the text by the United Bible Societies) have the NT Greek word ὃς (“who”) here instead of θεὸς (“God”).Why do the very best trinitarian scholars support this NON-trinitarian translation of 1 Tim. 3:16?

Noted Bible scholar Dr. Frederick C. Grant writes:

“A capital example [of NT manuscript changes] is found in 1 Timothy 3:16, where ‘OS’ (OC or ὃς, who’) was later taken for theta sigma with a bar above, which stood for theos (θεὸς, ‘god’). Since the new reading suited …. the orthodox doctrine of the church [trinitarian, at this later date], it got into many of the later manuscripts .....” – p. 656, Encyclopedia Americana, vol. 3, 1957 ed. (This same statement by Dr. Grant was still to be found in the latest Encyclopedia Americana that I examined – the 1990 ed., pp.696-698, vol. 3.)

A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament by the United Bible Societies (1971 ed.) tells why the trinitarian UBS Committee chose ὃς [‘who’ or ‘he who’] as the original reading in their NT text for this verse:

“it is supported by the earliest and best uncials.” And, “Thus, no uncial (in the first hand [by the ORIGINAL writer]) earlier than the eighth or ninth century supports θεὸς [“God”]; all ancient versions presuppose ὃς [or OC, “who” - masc.] or [“which” - neut.]; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century [370 A.D.] testifies to the reading θεὸς. The reading θεὸς arose either (a) accidentally, through the misreading of OC as ΘC, or (b) deliberately....” - p. 641.

In actuality it appears to be a combination of both (with the emphasis on the latter). You see, the word ὃς was written in the most ancient manuscripts as OC (“C” being a common form for the ancient Greek letter “S” at that time). Most often at this time the word for God (θεὸς) was written in abbreviated form as ΘC. However, to show that it was an abbreviated form a straight line, or bar, was always drawn above ΘC. So no copyist should have mistaken ὃς (or OC) for ΘC, in spite of their similarities, simply because of the prominent bar which appeared over the one and not over the other.

What may have happened was discovered by John J. Wetstein in 1714. As he was carefully examining one of the oldest NT manuscripts then known (the Alexandrine Manuscript in London) he noticed at 1 Tim. 3:16 that the word originally written there was OC but that a horizontal stroke from one of the words written on the other side of the manuscript showed through very faintly in the middle of the O. This still would not qualify as an abbreviation for θεὸς, of course, but Wetstein discovered that some person at a much later date and in a different style from the original writer had deliberately added a bar above the original word! Anyone copying from this manuscript after it had been deliberately changed would be likely to incorporate the counterfeit ΘC [with bar above it] into his new copy (especially since it reflected his own trinitarian views)!

Of course, since Wetstein’s day many more ancient NT manuscripts have been discovered and none of them before the eighth century A.D. have been found with ΘC (“God”) at this verse!

Trinitarian scholar Murray J. Harris also concludes: “The strength of the external evidence favoring OC [‘who’], along with considerations of transcriptional and intrinsic probability, have prompted textual critics virtually unanimously to regard OC as the original text, a judgment reflected in NA(26) [Nestle-Aland text] and UBS (1,2,3) [United Bible Societies text] (with a ‘B’ rating) [also the Westcott and Hort text]. Accordingly, 1 Tim 3:16 is not an instance of the Christological [‘Jesus is God’] use of θεὸς.” - Jesus as God, p. 268, Baker Book House, 1992.

And very trinitarian (Southern Baptist) NT Greek scholar A. T. Robertson wrote about this scripture:

He who (hos [or OC in the original text]). The correct text, not theos (God) the reading of the Textus Receptus ... nor ho (neuter relative [pronoun]), agreeing with [the neuter] musterion [‘mystery’] the reading of Western documents.” - p. 577, Vol. 4, Word Pictures in the New Testament, Broadman Press.

And even trinitarian NT Greek scholar, Daniel B. Wallace uses the relative pronoun ὃς (‘who’) in this scripture and tells us:

“The textual variant θεὸς [‘god’] in the place of ὃς [‘who’ or ‘he who’] has been adamantly defended by some scholars, particularly those of the ‘majority text’ school. Not only is such a reading poorly attested, but the syntactical argument that ‘mystery’ (μυστήριον) being a neuter noun, cannot be followed by the masculine pronoun (ὃς) is entirely without weight. As attractive theologically [for trinitarians, of course] as the reading θεὸς may be, it is spurious. To reject it is not to deny the deity of Christ, of course; it is just to deny any explicit reference in this text.” [italicized emphasis is by Wallace]. - pp. 341-342, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, Zondervan, 1996.

The correct rendering of 1 Tim. 3:16, then, is: “He who was revealed in the flesh ….” - NASB. Cf. ASV; RSV; NRSV; NAB; JB; NJB; NIV; NEB; REB; ESV; Douay-Rheims; TEV; CEV; BBE; NLV; God’s Word; New Century Version; Holman NT; ISV NT; Lexham English Bible; The Message; Weymouth; Moffatt; etc.

The question to you is - Who was manifested in the flesh?
 
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michaelvpardo

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........................................................
1 Tim. 3:16

As this is translated in the KJV it makes Paul say that Jesus is God “manifest in the flesh.”

Although the KJV translates 1 Tim. 3:16 with “God” as above, nearly all other translations today use a word which refers, not to God, but to Jesus: “he (NIV; RSV; NRSV; JB; NJB; REB; NAB [‘70]; AT; GNB; CBW; and Beck’s translation), “he who (ASV; NASB; NEB; MLB; BBE; Phillips; and Moffatt),who,” orwhich.” Even the equally old Douay version has “which was manifested in the flesh.” All the very best modern NT texts by trinitarian scholars (including Westcott and Hort, Nestle, and the text by the United Bible Societies) have the NT Greek word ὃς (“who”) here instead of θεὸς (“God”).Why do the very best trinitarian scholars support this NON-trinitarian translation of 1 Tim. 3:16?

Noted Bible scholar Dr. Frederick C. Grant writes:

“A capital example [of NT manuscript changes] is found in 1 Timothy 3:16, where ‘OS’ (OC or ὃς, who’) was later taken for theta sigma with a bar above, which stood for theos (θεὸς, ‘god’). Since the new reading suited …. the orthodox doctrine of the church [trinitarian, at this later date], it got into many of the later manuscripts .....” – p. 656, Encyclopedia Americana, vol. 3, 1957 ed. (This same statement by Dr. Grant was still to be found in the latest Encyclopedia Americana that I examined – the 1990 ed., pp.696-698, vol. 3.)

A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament by the United Bible Societies (1971 ed.) tells why the trinitarian UBS Committee chose ὃς [‘who’ or ‘he who’] as the original reading in their NT text for this verse:

“it is supported by the earliest and best uncials.” And, “Thus, no uncial (in the first hand [by the ORIGINAL writer]) earlier than the eighth or ninth century supports θεὸς [“God”]; all ancient versions presuppose ὃς [or OC, “who” - masc.] or [“which” - neut.]; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century [370 A.D.] testifies to the reading θεὸς. The reading θεὸς arose either (a) accidentally, through the misreading of OC as ΘC, or (b) deliberately....” - p. 641.

In actuality it appears to be a combination of both (with the emphasis on the latter). You see, the word ὃς was written in the most ancient manuscripts as OC (“C” being a common form for the ancient Greek letter “S” at that time). Most often at this time the word for God (θεὸς) was written in abbreviated form as ΘC. However, to show that it was an abbreviated form a straight line, or bar, was always drawn above ΘC. So no copyist should have mistaken ὃς (or OC) for ΘC, in spite of their similarities, simply because of the prominent bar which appeared over the one and not over the other.

What may have happened was discovered by John J. Wetstein in 1714. As he was carefully examining one of the oldest NT manuscripts then known (the Alexandrine Manuscript in London) he noticed at 1 Tim. 3:16 that the word originally written there was OC but that a horizontal stroke from one of the words written on the other side of the manuscript showed through very faintly in the middle of the O. This still would not qualify as an abbreviation for θεὸς, of course, but Wetstein discovered that some person at a much later date and in a different style from the original writer had deliberately added a bar above the original word! Anyone copying from this manuscript after it had been deliberately changed would be likely to incorporate the counterfeit ΘC [with bar above it] into his new copy (especially since it reflected his own trinitarian views)!

Of course, since Wetstein’s day many more ancient NT manuscripts have been discovered and none of them before the eighth century A.D. have been found with ΘC (“God”) at this verse!

Trinitarian scholar Murray J. Harris also concludes: “The strength of the external evidence favoring OC [‘who’], along with considerations of transcriptional and intrinsic probability, have prompted textual critics virtually unanimously to regard OC as the original text, a judgment reflected in NA(26) [Nestle-Aland text] and UBS (1,2,3) [United Bible Societies text] (with a ‘B’ rating) [also the Westcott and Hort text]. Accordingly, 1 Tim 3:16 is not an instance of the Christological [‘Jesus is God’] use of θεὸς.” - Jesus as God, p. 268, Baker Book House, 1992.

And very trinitarian (Southern Baptist) NT Greek scholar A. T. Robertson wrote about this scripture:

He who (hos [or OC in the original text]). The correct text, not theos (God) the reading of the Textus Receptus ... nor ho (neuter relative [pronoun]), agreeing with [the neuter] musterion [‘mystery’] the reading of Western documents.” - p. 577, Vol. 4, Word Pictures in the New Testament, Broadman Press.

And even trinitarian NT Greek scholar, Daniel B. Wallace uses the relative pronoun ὃς (‘who’) in this scripture and tells us:

“The textual variant θεὸς [‘god’] in the place of ὃς [‘who’ or ‘he who’] has been adamantly defended by some scholars, particularly those of the ‘majority text’ school. Not only is such a reading poorly attested, but the syntactical argument that ‘mystery’ (μυστήριον) being a neuter noun, cannot be followed by the masculine pronoun (ὃς) is entirely without weight. As attractive theologically [for trinitarians, of course] as the reading θεὸς may be, it is spurious. To reject it is not to deny the deity of Christ, of course; it is just to deny any explicit reference in this text.” [italicized emphasis is by Wallace]. - pp. 341-342, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, Zondervan, 1996.

The correct rendering of 1 Tim. 3:16, then, is: “He who was revealed in the flesh ….” - NASB. Cf. ASV; RSV; NRSV; NAB; JB; NJB; NIV; NEB; REB; ESV; Douay-Rheims; TEV; CEV; BBE; NLV; God’s Word; New Century Version; Holman NT; ISV NT; Lexham English Bible; The Message; Weymouth; Moffatt; etc.
You must be born again. Neither your words or biblical studies merit the attention of believers. You are not of the body of Christ, nor is it possible for you to become one with us until you believe the witness of the Holy Spirit.
 

michaelvpardo

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It's kind of funny to me, but I've been feeding a third stray cat at my door for about a month and gave him the name tigger.
I haven't let him stay yet. That's entirely dependent upon his choices. Who says that God doesn't have a sense of humor?
 

tigger 2

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The question to you is - Who was manifested in the flesh?

Noted trinitarians tell us that it was Jesus who was manifested in the flesh and taken up in glory.

16 "Great indeed , we confess, is the mystery of our religion: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

"f.n. 16. Christ is the content of the mystery." - The New Oxford Annotated Bible, RSV.
..................................
NIVSB
f.n. says for 1 Tim. 3:16: ".... That secret ["mystery"] ... is none other than Jesus Christ."
..................................
Word Pictures in the New Testament, Vol. 4, p.577 by noted trinitarian scholar A.T. Robertson says for 1 Tim. 3:16: "Christ, to whom hos refers, is the mystery."
...................................
Mike:
You write, more than once I believe,: "Neither your words or biblical studies merit the attention of believers."
...................................
Most of what I post (as above) are the words of noted trinitarians. So you are condemning them much more than me.
..........................................
I, too, took my title from that of a beloved cat.
 
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David in NJ

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Noted trinitarians tell us that it was Jesus who was manifested in the flesh and taken up in glory.

16 "Great indeed , we confess, is the mystery of our religion: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

"f.n. 16. Christ is the content of the mystery." - The New Oxford Annotated Bible, RSV.
..................................
NIVSB
f.n. says for 1 Tim. 3:16: ".... That secret ["mystery"] ... is none other than Jesus Christ."

Word Pictures in the New Testament, Vol. 4, p.577 by noted trinitarian scholar A.T. Robertson says for 1 Tim. 3:16: "Christ, to whom hos refers, is the mystery."

I, too, took my title from that of a beloved cat.

There have been many prophets of God manifested in the flesh.
Who was manifested in the flesh? according to Scripture
Who is Jesus Christ? and what is significant of him being manifested in the flesh?
 

Robert Gwin

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Hello @Robert Gwin,

Yes, what you say concerning the great adversary, and enemy of our souls is true. However, you missed the point that the Scripture I quoted was making. For the Pharisees to whom Jesus spoke the words quoted in Matthew 6 (above) had 'light', they were not ignorant of the Scriptures, but they made the commandments of God of none effect by their traditions received of their fathers. The writing of such being held in higher esteem than the Scriptures themselves.

The teaching of 'The Watch Tower' and like material is being received as true by such organisations as your own, at the detriment of the Word of God. The Bible Translation expounded also being a subtly corrupt translation of their own making. So, is not the light that is in those so indoctrinated not darkness? and if so how great is that darkness!

Forgive me any offence caused, but I cannot but be direct, for such teaching is leading so many astray.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

God is:-

No Chris, you do not offend me maam, matter of fact I prefer honesty, as I do my utmost to conduct myself honestly in all things. As an organized group of Jehovah's people should be, we do out utmost to keep worldly traditions out of serving God. You likely are quite familiar that we do not participate in christmas, nor easter. We do our best to research paganism and keep it from infiltrating the Christian congregation.

Keep in mind that we are not perfect, and that those Jesus chastised were of our faith. We have never been perfect, matter of fact far from it as you can see in our recorded history found in the Bible. It was so bad in Jesus' day among our leaders, that God took the Kingdom from them, and to the faithful ones of the faith, brought us into a new covenant.
 

Robert Gwin

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'These are the generations
of the heavens and of the earth
when they were created,
in the day that the LORD (
Jehovah) God (Elohim)
made the earth and the heavens,'

(Gen 2:4)

Hello @Robert Gwin,

1) I saw no alteration so there was nothing to justify. I just quoted what was written.

2) The name by which believers approach God in Christ Jesus, is by this Title:- 'The God (Theos) and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ', which renders all such arguments concerning the name unnecessary.

3) Genesis 2:4, that you quote, uses two names of God, in the words, 'Lord God' (Jehovah Elohim), which refers to God in covenant relationship, and as Creator.

4) Romans 10:13, 'For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord (Kurios) shall be saved,' that you also quote, interprets the Greek word, 'Kurious' as 'Lord': this is a respectful title, given to One supreme in authority. Christ Jesus the risen Lord is the supreme authority by which man is saved! As Acts 4:10-12 confirms:-

'Be it known unto you all,
and to all the people of Israel,
that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth,
whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead,
even by Him doth this man stand here before you whole.
This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders,
which is become the head of the corner.

Neither is there salvation in any other:
for there is none other name under heaven given among men,
whereby we must be saved.'

(Act 4:10-12)

* It is at the name of Christ Jesus our risen Lord that man is saved.

Praise God!

Within the love of Christ
Our Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

God is:-

As you stated God is a title, and there are many recorded in the Bible, even by name.

YHWH is not translated Lord, Adonai is as you recognized previously in your number 3, Genesis 2:4 originally stated YHWH Elohim accurately rendered Jehovah God, God not being His last name, rather a descriptive title of who Jehovah is. He is God maam.
 

Robert Gwin

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Just remember this friend - We will all be judged by our words compared to His WORD.

His WORD says this to you directly, right now: "If you (Robert Gwin) love Me, you will keep My commandments." John 14

The SON gave a commandment to us concerning His Name beginning in Genesis - "Let US make man in OUR Image"
The SON further expounded on HIS NAME in Exodus 3 = ELOHIM Father ELOHIM Son ELOHIM Holy Spirit

God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ” God also told Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’
This is My name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.

"If you (Robert Gwin) love Me, you will keep My commandments."

May I ask why you chose to stop in verse 14, rather than give the name Jehovah gave? Was it deliberate sir?
 

David in NJ

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May I ask why you chose to stop in verse 14, rather than give the name Jehovah gave? Was it deliberate sir?

i read and believe the entire Scripture = Scripture has Order = if you reject His Order you reject His Truth

Jehovah/Jesus is the the same Elohim - you keep rejecting the Word of Elohim for your error - this cannot save you.

If you truly knew Jehovah you would rejoice in the Scripture that declares who HE IS - the IAM
- the ELOHIM Father ELOHIM Son ELOHIM Holy Spirit = just as HE commanded us.

Why is Jesus good? There are none good but one = God.
 

Robert Gwin

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He gave none. God's word shut his mouth and he with his companions turned from my door and never darkened it again.


There you have it Mike, your false accusation out of your own mouth. You have seen my testimony, refute it if you care to sir.