Objections to Sola Scriptura

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Grailhunter

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You're rambling all over the place! Why can't you think logically and coherently?

LOL That is what I am trying to get you to do.....end hypocrisy! If you are going to talk d'a talk, walk d'a walk. Don't say on thing and do another.....what kind of religion is that?

You're rambling all over the place! Why can't you think logically and coherently?

a) "Just like everyone else, what you are saying in whine is....I don't like that!" is meaningless.
b) "How many people profess a belief of Sola Scriptura, and how many people live it?" is meaningless.
c) "Most do not....which turns their application of Christianity into a whole lot of hypocrisy." Have you actually polled all of Christendom or are you just making a broad (and false) assumption?
d) "It is a study into human phycological and religious / social interaction." What is "phycological" interaction?
e) "But you know it [the word of God] is not true....God knows it is not true" So God knows that His word is not true? Are you actually saying that God is a liar?
f) "... the world is not flat....the Bible has a lots of contradictions...etc." Where did I or anyone else who believes in the principle of sola scriptura claim that the world is flat???
g) Sola scriptura has nothing to do with the idea the Bible is God. Where did you dream that heresy up?
h) You wrote "My interest in the Bible is the theology and faith it describes in the love of God." No it isn't. Your interest is trying to prove sola scriptura is wrong. You haven't said a single thing about theology and faith.
i) Your last paragraph has nothing to do with the discussion of sola scriptura.

It is clear that you have a need to attack people based on your false understanding of sola scriptura. You have made all kinds of absurd statements about what those of us who believe in the principle of sola scriptura actually believe. Why do you expect people to accept what you say if you don't even know what you're talking about?

It all boils down to not lying to yourself and others. God knows the truth and He knows the world is not flat.

the world is not flat....the Bible has a lots of contradictions...etc." Where did I or anyone else who believes in the principle of sola scriptura claim that the world is flat??? The scriptures indicate the world is flat...fixed....on a foundation of pillars and the sun and universe revolves around the earth. And you say the scriptures are infallible......You believe the world is flat!

It is clear that you have a need to attack people based on your false understanding of sola scriptura. You have made all kinds of absurd statements about what those of us who believe in the principle of sola scriptura actually believe. Why do you expect people to accept what you say if you don't even know what you're talking about?

What I say is very specific and clear and it is the truth....for you truth is lies and lies are truth. And I am well known for being well versed in what I talk about.....Notice you do not challenge me....because you know you cannot. Johnny Appleseed of truth. Truth always triumphs over false beliefs and lies.
 
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Davy

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You are wrong. The British crown has a perpetual copyright on the King James Bible, through "letters patent" originally issued to stop unofficial editions. It has been renewed upon the accession of each succeeding monarch since King James himself.

Not outside Great Britain they don't.
 

friend of

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Do “Your saved saints” have the ministry of reconciliation?
Or the ability to govern the church, or to forgive and absolve men of their sins?

no one is saved until the hour of death

A few things with this post.

First, this "ministry of reconciliation" you speak of is that salvation is by grace through faith in Christ's atonement. So yes, the saved saints surely have such and it is not secluded to papacy.

Second, the ability to govern a church properly must be derived from scripture, for scripture is the authority, not the opinions of men or modern-day prophets.

Thirdly, men do not have the authority to forgive other men their sins. I don't care if they've obtained a masters in divinity, or if they're a bishop of Rome, or what have you. Forgiveness of sins is through Christ, by Christ and for the glory of Christ. It is farcical to believe that a priest is necessary for atonement to be made on behalf of one's transgressions.

Fourthly, and this is something Catholicism gets so, so very wrong: The bible states that we can know for sure, in this life, that we are saved. Further, God wants us to be assured of our salvation. Anything less than full confidence in Christ's atonement is weak faith at best, and unsaving faith at worst.

1 John 5:13
John 20:31
2 Peter 1:10-11

Good day.
 
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Wrangler

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How can any denomination today prove that they have preserved the original thoughts, prayers, meditations, feelings and responses to the faith that the very first apostolic Christians and early church founders experienced?
Not sure where you get the idea that religion is about proof?

Moreover, GIVEN we worship a living God, why do you think the original thoughts, prayers, meditations, feelings and responses to the faith NEED to be preserved rather than NEED to evolve as cultures, languages and scientific understanding changes?

For instance, Genesis tells us Creation occurred in 6 days. Science tells us that our universe is about 14B years old and our planet is about 5B years old. Does that "prove" Scripture is false? No, people adopt a more figurative take on an exceptionally figurative book. 2 examples of this is that Abraham's descendants will be more than the grains of sand and if one were to write all the miracles of Jesus, it would fill the world.
 

Alfredthefifth

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Hey that stuff happens out there and truth can be pretty ugly. That is why the sola scriptura doesn’t work. Reading the Bible does.

You are contradicting yourself right here. Sola Scriptura means that the Bible is the final authority in all matters of faith and practice. Which means (a) reading the Bible, (b) believing the Bible, and (c) practicing what is taught in the Bible.

The question is IF the Bible alone is not reliable for Verifying Gods Word that men Hear....then what is?

Philosophers writings? Commentators writings? Letters of men who claim they knew a guy who knew an Apostle?
The writings of men who themselves are against reliance on the Scriptures for verification? <— How clever is that!

Anti-Scripture in any way, shape or form is the devise of wicked men.

Sola scriptures

I learned much from studying Martin Luther,
The Lutheran church got the Bible into me, recently I have been reading the Bible to confirm what the Holy Spirit has put in my heart.

But sola scriptures is not about following the pastor. Or even following the churches doctrine.
It is finding the Holy Spirit, and working in the Holy Spirit,

Being Blest by the Holy Spirit is A Baptism that is THE REGENERATION.

Men, mankind with an evil spirits help has been corrupting GOD'S word since God spoke to the first man.

In anything spiritual relying on man is a trap, satan has tripped and trapped mankind from the first man.
I do not trust the Bishops, as they created to many rules of men.
I have been lied to from the pulpit in a Lutheran Church.
I have seen the attempt at corrupting sola scriptures in the pulpit.

Sola scriptures is not a doctrine it is a statement. A statement that can and has been corrupted by attempt of man to own scriptures so that no one can argue a different point.

Whether it is the Bishops or an heir apparent to position of authority. Sola Scripture is using scripture to test the teacher. It is scary how many teachers fail the test of scriptures.
Yes I am sola scripture not in any doctrine but in the love of God.
Many teachers object to sola scripture because the ordinary man can question them through it.

The lie about sola scripture, that comes closest to working has been taking how the scripture was badly twisted and the harm done. But when this is looked at it is a man or men twisting the word beyond any possibility of truth.
The one verse Christian that takes one verse or any number of one verses in such away that there is no truth in those verses, is the first to cry sola scripture is false. Not because the scripture is false but to hide their lie. Scripture, full scripture alone will prove those that use select scripture to lie as liars. So the lier has to deflect against that which will prove the lie. This is where we hear how wrong sola scripture is.

Yes sola scripture and especially when the Holy Spirit is the guide! With the Holy Spirit in and through the word, Scripture you are twice blest.

Alfredthefifth
 
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Wrangler

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Sola scriptures is not a doctrine it is a statement.
Specifically, Sola Scriptura is a statement in reaction to church abuse to not rely on the contrivances of man but the word of God alone.

Luther said, by this convict me. They could only convict him of violating their own corrupt politically and economically driven edicts. One of my favorites is the idea that by giving money, God will reduce the time loved ones stay in Purgatory. Luther asked the uncomfortable question, if God could do this, why would he do it for money and not out of love?

Sadly, the RCC was far too corrupt to be reformed. The so-called Reformation movement was really a breaking away, beginning a denominating process that continues half a millennia later.
 

Alfredthefifth

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@Wrangler
In reading the less known writings of Martin Luther, the ones my Lutheran Synod didn't want me to because "those writings are bewildered."
Luther was distressed to his dieing day that the RCC forced the break away and a New Church body, a result that he had never wanted. Luther also begged that NO CHURCH BODY USE HIS NAME. If Luther's prayers had been answered the Lutheran Churches that light heartedly are referred to as catholic light, would be full sisters to Catholic in Sola Scriptura.

The danger of Sola Scriptura is in not testing the teacher. Because teachers, thats pastors, preacher, ministers, reverands, deacons any leader or leadership and elders are all humans subject to the weaknesses of mankind. It sounds true, ok but does it test true, where is the love from God and for God?

In another thread I was asked, "do I want to become a monk at St Augustine monstery?"
No I don’t, but if I don’t learn the scriptures the way that monk did and find the love from God in those Scriptures what am I doing here,"

Alfredthefifth
 

dev553344

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What are the doctrinal objections to this Protestant lynchpin. From the vantage of any denomination.

To me, it seems foolish to be against Sola Scriptura. It just makes too much sense that God's inspired word should be the first, middle and last word on all things pertaining to the faith. If this were not so, why do we even have the bible?

Discuss ty and God bless
I think it's an authority battle some churches make. The Mormons have further revelation and desire others to follow teachings beyond the bible. And not all mormon teachings are inline with bible teachings. The Catholics kind of follow the bible but went with Pauls ideas on not having married clergy instead of Timothy's advice. They also promote the virgin Marry a little beyond scripture.

And let's face it. If you don't need their church (sola sctipura) then your not paying them tithes and making them rich and powerful.
 
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Marymog

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I think it's an authority battle some churches make. The Mormons have further revelation and desire others to follow teachings beyond the bible. And not all mormon teachings are inline with bible teachings. The Catholics kind of follow the bible but went with Pauls ideas on not having married clergy instead of Timothy's advice. They also promote the virgin Marry a little beyond scripture.

And let's face it. If you don't need their church (sola sctipura) then your not paying them tithes and making them rich and powerful.
Hey Devin,

FYI there are married Catholic priests!

Timothy didn't give any advice. "Timothy" is a letter from Paul TO Timothy! It was Paul giving Timothy advice.

Mary
 

dev553344

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Hey Devin,

FYI there are married Catholic priests!

Timothy didn't give any advice. "Timothy" is a letter from Paul TO Timothy! It was Paul giving Timothy advice.

Mary
Oh, thanks for the info. :oops:
 
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theefaith

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A few things with this post.

First, this "ministry of reconciliation" you speak of is that salvation is by grace through faith in Christ's atonement. So yes, the saved saints surely have such and it is not secluded to papacy.

secluded to the New Testament priesthood not papacy


Second, the ability to govern a church properly must be derived from scripture, for scripture is the authority, not the opinions of men or modern-day prophets.

Christ is the authority not scripture see below

Thirdly, men do not have the authority to forgive other men their sins. I don't care if they've obtained a masters in divinity, or if they're a bishop of Rome, or what have you. Forgiveness of sins is through Christ, by Christ and for the glory of Christ. It is farcical to believe that a priest is necessary for atonement to be made on behalf of one's transgressions.

1) only Christ a priest, and eternal priest, heb 7:17 and high priest heb 7:26 made atonement for all sin! Jn 1:29 heb 9:12

2) explain Jn 20:21-23
Same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ!

3)Christ is high priest who must the low priests be?

Fourthly, and this is something Catholicism gets so, so very wrong: The bible states that we can know for sure, in this life, that we are saved. Further, God wants us to be assured of our salvation. Anything less than full confidence in Christ's atonement is weak faith at best, and unsaving faith at worst.

1 John 5:13
John 20:31
2 Peter 1:10-11

Good day.

saved? See below
 

theefaith

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Matt 24:13 endures to the end.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

27. Heb 1:14 shall be heirs of salvation

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
(Must remain obedient)

(He who endured to the end) one who dies in a state of grace united to Jesus Christ by faith and baptism!
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 1 pet 3:21
Matt 24:13


Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible if baptism is rejected!
 

Alfredthefifth

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Hello Friend of, I personally do not care for the doctrinal stance 'Sola Scriptura' however the term 'Sola Spiritus' is far better. It is a great thing that we have writings through out history that deal with God and mankind, and how God had sent his Son to be able to reconcile the world back unto Himself.

Sola Scriptura breaks the word of God up into little daggers, and refutations of what one may say, against what another may say. We see these things going back through the Crusades and Reformations. If someone disagrees with another based on scripture 'kill them', basically that is where it ends at.

People drawing swords out, and clanging them up against each other, some slaying an ear, or trying to cut a person down by the legs, and allowing no mercy, or allowing a person to have thoughts and think for themselves. Of course the Bible is useful, are there some areas that need to be learned to get a better understanding such as Greek and Hebrew words? Sure.

The over all ending message is to have love for God and love for others, not smacking people around in the face because they disagree with a persons dogmatic stance.

Yes there is danger of a thousand daggers in individual verses without context. While I am probably called a catholic basher. It is the ardent followers of the infallibility of the Bishops that I find using the thousands of little one verse daggers and then claiming it is because I hate them!

Sola Scriptura is not braking scriptures down into little daggers. It is using the whole of Scripture to find the SPIRIT Scripture is written in, for and to. AGAIN those that break scripture into bits and pieces are the first to blame Sola Scriptura as the source of their daggers.

Alfredthefifth
 

theefaith

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Rule of faith part one

Scripture and Tradition constitutes the revealed word of God!

Large T Tradition means teaching not the other kind of tradition small t habits or customs

The teaching authority of Christ in His apostles and their successors through all time and place in His church He established on Peter!

The Rule of Faith!

What is the rule of faith for Christians, or the source of truth?

What is the pillar and ground of truth?

How do we know truth?

Where does it say the “Bible alone”?
Or that we are permitted to read it for ourselves and make our own doctrine?

Where does it say all revealed truths are found in scripture?


Christ is the rule of faith or source of truth for Christians!
Jn 14:6 Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life! The church is an extension of Christ 1 Tim 3:15 the church is the pillar and ground of truth!

Must be taught by Christ! Gal 1:2

What God has revealed by scripture and the church, the teaching authority of the apostles has proposed for our belief!

Christians must be instructed or taught!

A Christian must have humility and obedience of faith to be taught by Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life!
Jn 14:6

Verses of scripture signifying that we must be taught.

Lk 1:4
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4
The church is an extension of christ by which Christ perpetuates his mission, ministry, and teaching with His power and authority through all the world and all ages!

The private interpretation of the “Bible alone” does not and cannot and will not lead to a unity of faith! 2 Pet 1:20
eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: Jn 1:16-17 fullness of Christ!


The Bible does not say all truths revealed by God are found in the “Bible alone”! Or that the word of God is limited to the “Bible alone”!

Not the “Bible alone” acts 2:42
Not personal interpretation or experiences. 2 Pet 1:20

The authority of the apostles is required to know what is the scriptures and what is not, the church having wrote the New Testament by the authority of Christ the apostles determined what is scripture and the authentic interpretation there of!

Saint Jerome’s work of collecting the Bible and getting it approved did not happen until in 381 it was approved by the Pope, the valid successor of Peter having jurisdiction authority of the keys of the kingdom of heaven!

How did the church for almost four centuries live without the “Bible alone”?
The teaching authority of the apostles that’s how! The Bible’s is the Bible by the authority of the church, Christ’s authority given to His apostles!

Christ founded the church on Peter and the apostles to defend, to protect, and to teach “thee faith”

A fundamentalist is ruled by spiritual pride, self-righteous private judgement from scripture, or the humility to hear the teaching of Christ through the church of His apostles?
Obedience of faith: rom 16:26
We must be taught by Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life. Jn 14:6
Instructed: Lk 1:4 acts 8:31
Teach all nations: Matt 28:19
He who hears you (the apostles) hears me: lk 10:16
Hear the church: Matt 18:17
Church is the pillar and ground of truth: 1 Tim 3:14
Christ and his church are one, the church is an extension of Christ through the whole world and all time: acts 9:4

Not scripture plus private judgement

But guided by the teaching office of Christ and his church!

Without the teaching authority of the apostles you cannot know what is and what is not scripture!

Please explain how the church of Jesus Christ existed before the New Testament, the church taught and believed before the New Testament with the same authority of Christ!

Church of the apostles has the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21-23

The church wrote the New Testament, the church gathered the cannon of scripture, the church alone has authority to say what is, and what is not scripture and to give the authoritative interpretation or meaning of scripture!

Not spiritual pride & self-righteous private judgement!

Athanasius Creed!
(From the early church)

Whoever desires to be saved must above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and entire will doubtless perish eternally.

What did Christ teach the apostles in the 40 days from His resurrection to His ascension?
What did he teach the two disciples on the road to Emmaus?
What was revealed to John the Baptist in Lk 3:2 the word of God came unto John, and did it come by the Bible alone?
Where does Christ command the New Testament to be written? The apostles having the authority of Christ chose to write scripture! Other apostles wrote nothing at all!
How does the eunuch know about baptism? Acts 8

Rule of faith cannot be the “Bible Alone” because we did not have a bible until 381 when the church of the apostles by the authority of Christ determined what was and what was not scripture! You only have a bible cos the church wrote one and cannonized it by the authority of Christ thru his apostles!

Could not read
The Bible itself points to authority granted by Christ
The Bible condemns person interpretation of scripture as opposed to the church of the apostles having the authority of Christ to interpret scripture

so how can the rule of faith be the “Bible alone” when it did not even exist until the church approved it in 381 by the authority of Christ in His apostles, what about the millions who could not read most could not read until the 20th century, and books including Bible were rare and very expensive all written by hand (mostly by monks who sacrificed their whole life to copy a bible) until the printing press, even then they were still expensive
What does a blind person do?

the Holy Spirit is guaranteed to the apostles Jn 16:13 they are to teach the nations Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 acts 8

in acts 8 did the eunuch know about Christ and baptism from the scripture and the Holy Spirit? No God sent him and apostle


Acts 2:42 the held the doctrine of the apostles
Not the doctrine of the “Bible alone”!

if you believe the doctrine of the “Bible alone”, then there can be no other authority so scratch that verse out of your Bible! And many others that refer to the authority of the apostles!
Btw it’s only by the authority of the apostles that know what is and what is not scripture

Cannot summit to or obey any other authority accept the Bible alone
Even God, or Christ, or His church, or His apostles, or those who He sent and commanded to care for you’re soul!
The Bible is the only authority for a Protestant!

Where does the Bible say the rule of faith is the Bible alone?

the Bible was not assembled and approved until 381 by the apostles btw
Only the apostles said what is and what is not scripture.

What did Christians do in all those years without the “Bible alone”
until the advent of printing bibles were copied by hand and very rare and extremely expensive what did Christians do in those days
Most people were illiterate until the 20th century what did they do?
So you see the “Bible Alone” cannot be the rule of faith for Christians!
Instead we actually believe scripture and submit to and obey the apostles acts 2:42


Must be taught! Must be instructed by Christ!

Bible does not say to read and decide doctrine for you’re self!

Lk 1:1-4
1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,

2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;

3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Acts 8 the eunuch had scripture but needed to be instructed by an apostle.

Acts 8:26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.

27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,

28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.

29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

Taught by Christ thru His apostles!

Eph 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
 

theefaith

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rule of faith part two

Could not read
The Bible itself points to authority granted by Christ
The Bible condemns person interpretation of scripture as opposed to the church of the apostles having the authority of Christ to interpret scripture

so how can the rule of faith be the “Bible alone” when it did not even exist until the church approved it in 381 by the authority of Christ in His apostles, what about the millions who could not read most could not read until the 20th century, and books including Bible were rare and very expensive all written by hand (mostly by monks who sacrificed their whole life to copy a bible) until the printing press, even then they were still expensive
What does a blind person do?

the Holy Spirit is guaranteed to the apostles Jn 16:13 they are to teach the nations Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 acts 8

in acts 8 did the eunuch know about Christ and baptism from the scripture and the Holy Spirit? No God sent him and apostle


Acts 2:42 the held the doctrine of the apostles
Not the doctrine of the “Bible alone”!

if you believe the doctrine of the “Bible alone”, then there can be no other authority so scratch that verse out of your Bible! And many others that refer to the authority of the apostles!
Btw it’s only by the authority of the apostles that know what is and what is not scripture

Cannot summit to or obey any other authority accept the Bible alone
Even God, or Christ, or His church, or His apostles, or those who He sent and commanded to care for you’re soul!
The Bible is the only authority for a Protestant!

Where does the Bible say the rule of faith is the Bible alone?

the Bible was not assembled and approved until 381 by the apostles btw
Only the apostles said what is and what is not scripture.

What did Christians do in all those years without the “Bible alone”
until the advent of printing bibles were copied by hand and very rare and extremely expensive what did Christians do in those days
Most people were illiterate until the 20th century what did they do?
So you see the “Bible Alone” cannot be the rule of faith for Christians!
Instead we actually believe scripture and submit to and obey the apostles acts 2:42


Must be taught! Must be instructed by Christ!

Bible does not say to read and decide doctrine for you’re self!

Lk 1:1-4
1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,

2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;

3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Acts 8 the eunuch had scripture but needed to be instructed by an apostle.

Acts 8:26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.

27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,

28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.

29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

Taught by Christ thru His apostles!

Eph 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

Christ taught them and us thru the apostles.

Lk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

Not scripture alone, but what the prophets spoke! And Christ explaining the scriptures, and we also are disciples, Christ also opens the scripture to us thru His church by the teaching authority of the apostles!

The problem with the “Bible alone”!

You can easily see why the false doctrine of the “Bible alone” causes so many problems and why we can simply ignor creeds, councils, dogma, and decrees of the holy apostles teaching infallibility with the authority of Christ!

“Bible alone” is false doctrine
Negates the word of God, apostolic councils, creeds, cannons, decrees, dogma, and the teaching authority of the apostles!

The false doctrine of “the Bible Alone” is an attack on Christ and His holy church!
Christ and his church are one acts 9:4
To reject the church or church teaching is to reject Christ!

An attack on the holy church and her divine authority!

Even Christ who is the truth itself is excluded!

verses that refer to authority other than the “Bible Alone”!

Isa 22:21-22 Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Lk 1:32 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 Jn 21:17 Acts 1:17 acts 1:26 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 20:28 eph 2:20 and too many more to mention!

The Bible alone is based on spiritual pride, self-righteous private judgement, and personal interpretation, and not truth revealed by God in Christ without error, thru the teaching authority of the apostles!

God, Christ, the HS, the church, the apostles cannot be any authority at all, only scripture
1st problem is that the church of the apostles says what is and what is not scripture!
The Bible comes from the teaching of the apostles!
Must hear the church according to Christ and scripture! Matt 18:17

Pillar and foundation of truth!
The church teaches the truth revealed by Christ with His authority in the apostles!
1 Tim 3:15

The church existed before the New Testament!
The church believed and taught before there was a New Testament!
The church exercised authority before there was a New Testament!
The authority of Christ thru His one true church wrote the New Testament!
The church founded by Christ on Peter has authority to:
Teach, Govern, And sanctify!



Scripture alone is not enough

Lk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

Acts 1:15 peter stood up and opened the scripture to them

acts 8 the eunuch had scripture God sent an apostle to teach him

Bible alone does not include you’re personal interpretation!

Bible alone

example: of the word of God not in the Bible alone!

Lk 3:2 Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.
Or
1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

these are divine revelation!
Inspired by the Holy Spirit!
And the word of God!

why do some only accept them after they are written down?

they are divine revelation and the inspired word of God when they were received, and when they were taught to the people, and when they were written down! Why only accept them in the written form or “Bible alone”???

Where does Christ or scripture say that all the divinely reveled truths are in scripture?
Where does Christ or scripture say what is and what is not scripture?
 

theefaith

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Believers are not Christian’s but only catechumens

Faith and baptism are required to be Christian!

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27

Jesus says: I remind you you’re still under oath!


A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

You cannot enter on you’re own or by faith alone!

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 eph 2

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who I has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by God thru baptism!



Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!


Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 2:1&5 brought to life in baptism
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 and not the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!




“Faith alone”

Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2
 

Alfredthefifth

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Okay, do you need an example?

Say there is someone out there right, and they are underneath a cult leader.

The cult leader tells the person - if you do something that your eyes can not look at and I catch you, I will gouge your eyes out because this what the Lord had said.

The person the cult leader, does what the cult leader said not to do, and the cult leader, goes into their room which they are watching a dirty movie!

The cult leader, grabs his ice pick and gouges the persons eye out.

Was this what was important message that Jesus had said when he said : Gouge your eye out?


Thus it is with Sola Scriptura - an abusive form of use of scripture if you ask me. It is like little ice picks to stab and argue and division, @farouk.

First the cult leader is looking for someone searching for something they know not what. The cult leader presents something that is not scripture or scriptural. The seeker takes the easy way out and doesn't test the leader against scripture.

Blaming Sola Scriptura is blaming scripture for someone taking the easy way.

My catholic bashing is not IN one verse or a thousand and one, one verses. IT is against the one verse and the one thousand and one, one verses that twist the truth out scripture.

Sola Scriptura is the whole against the bits and pieces used to mislead!

The misleaders are the first to try and discredit scripture Sola Scriptura scripture! Yet they are the bits and pieces twisters your post rails against.

Alfredthefifth
 
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Alfredthefifth

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I good case in the point of the thousand and one disjointed scriptures is just above me here.

71 verse less than 10 pairs, with verse 13 a head of verse 2 in same argument.

That is who not only denies Sola Scriptura but tells me I need the Bishops for true faith!

But I am impressed thrèe posts 130 odd. verses and a group of four and a group of ten actually used in context.

But this is to prove that Sola Scriptura is wro g. Isn't that the thousand little daggers another poster warns about?

Alfredthefifth