Was Jesus/Yeshua born with a Sin Nature?

BeyondET said:

What verse is that, the Bible doesn't mention the garden during creation week, that is where God states it is good.

Why would knowing of good and evil not be good. Certainly God knows of good and evil but He is all good, how can God possibly know evil?

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Can there be anything not of the creator?

Grailhunter said:

No, I don't think it is wrong to try to get people to think. I don't put bumper stickers on my truck....but if I did it would say, THINK BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE.

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My point is that your assumption seems to be that people aren't thinking, and it's up to you to get them to think. And that seems to be just a terrible ~ and terribly arrogant ~ approach.

Grailhunter said:

It can say anything and but you have to think about weather it is right or wrong. Beliefs, Truths, Facts.

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Sure, but you don't have to be using the exact words in Scripture to be expositing what is in Scripture. You said (and I quote), "theological words and phrases that are not in the Bible, as a whole are wrong, partially wrong, or a complete deception." If you had said "theological words and phrases that are not supported by the Bible are wrong, partially wrong, or a complete deception," then I would have agreed with you. Maybe that's what you mean.

Grailhunter said:

If you are seeking the Truth you stand more of chance of knowing the Truth...

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Sure, Jesus says, "seek, and you will find" (Matthew 7:7).

Grailhunter said:

The reason I can say they are most likely false is because I have research these things and am standing ready to prove they are false.

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Ah, yes, research. Again, this seems terribly arrogant.

Grailhunter said:

If you say they have sinned....duly noted....I disagree.

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I didn't say that. What I did say, Grailhunter, is that because of man's natural proclivity to sin, it matters not, even at the moment he is conceived, whether he has actually committed a sin or not. The state of his heart is what it is. Even from conception, it is inevitable that the person will sin and therefore to God ~ Who as the great I AM exists in the eternal now ~ already deserving of condemnation.

Grailhunter said:

They had no idea that they needed to repent....God did not show them anything and so they did nothing worthy of hell.

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Well... duly noted... I disagree. Based on what Paul said in Romans 1.

Grailhunter said:

I always say that it is above my paygrade to judge whether someone is going to hell or not...

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Well, if you mean "judge" in the sense of pronouncing judgment upon, then I certainly agree; only God is able to do that. But in the sense of making judgments for oneself so as to "walk not in the counsel of the wicked, or stand in the way of sinners, or sit in the seat of scoffers" (Psalm 1), those judgments (discernments) are a good thing.

Grailhunter said:

...you nor I can not know which way Christ will Judge.

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Agreed, but as Christians, God has said that we will know other Christians by their fruit ~ by the outward evidence exhibited by them.

Grace and peace to you.

MatthewG said:

Was Jesus/Yeshua born with a Sin Nature?

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The key word here is "likeness." Being born in the "likeness" of sinful flesh did not give Jesus a sinful nature as we who are born below, any more than we who are born in the image or likeness of God are born righteous as One born from above. Therefore, Jesus came declaring that we must also be born from above.

face2face said:

Hebrews 2:15, ESV: and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery.

Do you think this speaks to condemnation?

F2F

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No, redemption. Jesus is our Deliverer, our Redeemer.

Grace and peace to you.

Blue Dragonfly's said:

Can there be anything not of the creator?

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Corvette maybe?

Taken said:

Isa 45:
[7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

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Very few transactions use the English word evil for the Greek word. I'm not convinced on that,, calamity and some others might be a better choice.

Taken said:

No kidding CHANGE is offered to manKIND.

The Changing IS the fixing!

* Forgiving disbelief IS fixing!
* Restoring the soul IS fixing!
* Quickening the spirit IS fixing!
* Glorifying the body IS fixing!

Jesus’ BODY, was PREPARED for Gods WORD, and SENT to Earth.
Jesus’ BODY, was NOT a Created HUMAN BODY OF DUST of the Earth.
Jesus’ BODY, did NOT suffer rot, decay, and return to DUST...
BECAUSE His BODY DID NOT COME FROM DUST of the Earth!
Jesus’ SOUL, DID NOT SUFFER DEATH.
Jesus’ SPIRIT, DID NOT SUFFER DEATH.
Jesus is, was, shall always BE SPIRIT without Beginning or Ending.

When men SAW Jesus, THEY SAW, His Outside, which was Expressly “prepared” in the “likeness” AS a man.

Men CALL things, AS THEY “SEE” them.
There is a Difference Between what men “SEE” and what men “KNOW”.
Do you “KNOW” Jesus “IS” the Christ?
Christ “IS” the Power, the Wisdom, the Seed of God...
Do you “BELIEVE” men LITERALLY VISIBLY SAW:
....Gods SEED?....Gods WISDOM?....Gods POWER?
No...
God IS Invisible to mans EYES.
Men HEAR the Knowledge, Believe it or not.
Men SEE the “EFFECTS” of Gods Seed, Gods Wisdom, Gods Power.

Numerous times in the OT, The WORD of God, was SENT to Earth, in the “likeness” AS a man, and Spoke face to face with Earthly men...
Long before The Word of God, was SENT to Earth, Revealed He “would be called”; the Son of God.

Bottom Line...

An individual man, WHO accepts Gods OFFERING OF:
Gods Forgiveness of the man;
Gods soul Restoration of the man;
Gods spirit Quickening of the man;
Gods body Glorification of the man;
* Shall Forever BE WITH the Lord God Almighty.
An individual man, WHO rejects Gods OFFERING;
* Shall Forever BE WITHOUT the Lord God Almighty.

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No God didn't bypass what happened in the garden on eating the fruit that altered every human after that. the opening of eyes that should of remained shut

Taken said:

I’m okay with the words;
Good (that effects harmony, calm & joy)
&
Evil (that effects spiritual calamity, chaos, & distress)
&
Wickedness (that effects mortal calamity, chaos, & distress)

And Gods Internal Power FOR Protection Against Evil spirits.
And Gods External Armor of God FOR Protection Against Wicked men.

Glory to God,
Taken

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@Taken I'm reminded of Philippians 4.8: lots of good words there to think on...!

ScottA said:

"The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." Romans 8:2-4
​

The key word here is "likeness." Being born in the "likeness" of sinful flesh did not give Jesus a sinful nature as we who are born below, any more than we who are born in the image or likeness of God are born righteous as One born from above. Therefore, Jesus came declaring that we must also be born from above.

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This same Paul, Scott, wrote:


Here Paul uses the word 'likeness' again ~ homoiōma in the Greek, the very same word he used in Romans 8 in your citation above ~ but further clarifies that he is in the form of man (in human form). And the Greek word used there translated to the English as 'form' is morphē, which means as the thing itself ~ so both God (because he uses the same word in relation to God) and human ~ in every respect.

So, as I said previously, yes, when Jesus was born of Mary, He did have, from birth, this sinful nature that we do, but because He was also fully possessing of the very nature of God, was able to resist the former perfectly and remain without sin, and this is what qualifies Him as our Mediator and our Savior ~ He is both the Son of God and the Son of Man.

Would you not agree? Again, I say, it is just astonishing that God would do this for us ~ reconcile to Himself through the Person and work of Jesus ~ Himself ~ even those for whom it is impossible to be reconciled to Him. But with God, all things are possible.

Grace and peace to you.

Taken said:

What do you mean..



That would be a response to someone who said there was a “bypass”...
(Whatever you mean by your own word “bypass”.)
I never said such a thing.

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What do I mean, Adam and Eve ate the fruit that altered their body's. It is in the genes of every human after. the genealogy goes right up to Christ. He alone carried all the weight of sin.

God didn't create a special human body for Jesus.

BeyondET said:

Corvette maybe?

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All elements,atoms,steel,etc...are of and from God.

PinSeeker said:

This same Paul, Scott, wrote:

"...Christ Jesus, Who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."
[Philippians 2:5-8]​

Here Paul uses the word 'likeness' again ~ homoiōma in the Greek, the very same word he used in Romans 8 in your citation above ~ but further clarifies that he is in the form of man (in human form). And the Greek word used there translated to the English as 'form' is morphē, which means as the thing itself ~ so both God (because he uses the same word in relation to God) and human ~ in every respect.

So, as I said previously, yes, when Jesus was born of Mary, He did have, from birth, this sinful nature that we do, but because He was also fully possessing of the very nature of God, was able to resist the former perfectly and remain without sin, and this is what qualifies Him as our Mediator and our Savior ~ He is both the Son of God and the Son of Man.

Would you not agree? Again, I say, it is just astonishing that God would do this for us ~ reconcile to Himself through the Person and work of Jesus ~ Himself ~ even those for whom it is impossible to be reconciled to Him. But with God, all things are possible.

Grace and peace to you.

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Yes, Jesus as "Christ" is as One who "set his right foot on the sea and his left foot on the land" standing in the gap.