These three are one

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user

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1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.


Verse 7 does not say God is 3 persons. Contrary, this says he is one. Like a super mom who is off to work every day, comes home and cooks, is then nurse to sick child and on weekends becomes soccer mom - but is only one person.

If she were separate persons, she would read as verse 8 - these three agree in one.
 

Truther

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1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.


Verse 7 does not say God is 3 persons. Contrary, this says he is one. Like a super mom who is off to work every day, comes home and cooks, is then nurse to sick child and on weekends becomes soccer mom - but is only one person.

If she were separate persons, she would read as verse 8 - these three agree in one.
Yes, there are 3 manifestations, not 3 persons.

The spirit/water/blood in the next verse proves it.
 

user

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Yes, there are 3 manifestations, not 3 persons.

The spirit/water/blood in the next verse proves it.

Amen!

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
[4] And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
 

user

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First you post the verse, and then you flatly contradict it. Which means that Scripture means nothing to you.

The OP shows the difference of being one and agree in one. If God were three, verse 7 would read as verse 8.
 

user

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First you post the verse, and then you flatly contradict it. Which means that Scripture means nothing to you.

If you made something and wanted everyone to know that you alone had made it, you may say things like you did it alone, no one else with you.

Isaiah 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.


This one God manifest in the flesh.

Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
 
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Tommy Cool

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1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.


Verse 7 does not say God is 3 persons. Contrary, this says he is one. Like a super mom who is off to work every day, comes home and cooks, is then nurse to sick child and on weekends becomes soccer mom - but is only one person.

If she were separate persons, she would read as verse 8 - these three agree in one.


That scripture is most likely a straw man anyhow.

By most all accounts… theologians agree that 1John 5:7 was added and should be discarded.

According to biblical scholars ...this is not even questionable ….it absolutely was not in any of the Greek MMS prior to 12th century and no Latin manuscript contains the text prior to the fourth century….. And since Latin was translated from the Greek it is assumed that it was forged by Latin translators.


My Peshitta text from 500 AD reads as follows

6) This is He who came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ, not by water only, but by water and blood.

7) And the spirit testifies that the very spirit is truth.

8) And there are three to bear witness the spirit the water and the blood, and these three are one
 

VictoryinJesus

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1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.


Verse 7 does not say God is 3 persons. Contrary, this says he is one. Like a super mom who is off to work every day, comes home and cooks, is then nurse to sick child and on weekends becomes soccer mom - but is only one person.

If she were separate persons, she would read as verse 8 - these three agree in one.


What has stood out to me lately which I never noticed before is where Paul said “this is the third time I am coming to you.” It stands out because one “if I come again I will not spare” if I’m not mistaken which he said I do not come …but write being absent…because the power God gave me for your edification and not for your destruction.
2 Corinthians 13:1-2

“The third time” three witnesses to me could mean timing of witness sent to persuade or speak…because of the parables where God sent out witnesses and the husbandmen took them and beat and killed them, but at last He sent His Son a witness…that they might reverence the Son…but they were angry saying this, is the Heir let’s kill Him.
Deuteronomy 17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death.
^the above at the mouth of three witnesses, and how Paul warned them that “this is the third time if I come to you. I will not spare.”
They scrambled to find three witnesses against Christ…(imo) He was the last that the Father said would come “I will send My Son, hear Him” as a witness…but they received Him not. To me their witnesses where false against the Son to have Him killed going against “At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death” Matthew 26:59-62, yet, Last God sent the witness of His Son…
Hebrews 1:2, Hebrews 12:25, John 3:26-33…whose witness is true?


1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
^This is the third time I come unto you, in the mouth of three witnesses ? If any three agree?
 
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Davy

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1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.


Verse 7 does not say God is 3 persons. Contrary, this says he is one. Like a super mom who is off to work every day, comes home and cooks, is then nurse to sick child and on weekends becomes soccer mom - but is only one person.

If she were separate persons, she would read as verse 8 - these three agree in one.

Yep! Three Persons, but together as One.

Hebrews tells us that Jesus Christ is the express image of The Father.

When Phillip asked Jesus, "shew us the Father", Lord Jesus told him that if you've seen Him, then you've seen The Father. In Isaiah 9, Jesus is proclaimed not only as the Prince of Peace, but also as The mighty God, and The everlasting Father.
 
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Charlie24

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The OP shows the difference of being one and agree in one. If God were three, verse 7 would read as verse 8.

If only one person that manifests Himself in three persons, how is Christ sitting at the right hand of the Father?

Why did God say, "let us create man in our image?"

What was the voice, "this is my beloved Son, believe Him?"

Why did God the Father say to Jesus, "thy throne Oh God is forever?"

You have much work to do before making such uninformed statements.
 

Episkopos

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1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.


Verse 7 does not say God is 3 persons. Contrary, this says he is one. Like a super mom who is off to work every day, comes home and cooks, is then nurse to sick child and on weekends becomes soccer mom - but is only one person.

If she were separate persons, she would read as verse 8 - these three agree in one.


The Roman church added those verses in in the 15th century. They are called the Johannine comma.

Johannine Comma - Wikipedia
 

Charlie24

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The Roman church added those verses in in the 15th century. They are called the Johannine comma.

Johannine Comma - Wikipedia

A Trail of Evidence

But during this same time, we find mention of 1 John 5:7, from about 200 AD through the 1500s. Here is a useful timeline of references to this verse:

200 AD Tertullian wrote "which three are one" based on the verse in his Against Praxeas, chapter 25.
250 AD Cyprian of Carthage, wrote, "And again, of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost it is written: "And the three are One" in his On The Lapsed, On the Novatians, (see note for Old Latin)
350 AD Priscillian referred to it [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. xviii, p. 6.]
350 AD Idacius Clarus referred to it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 62, col. 359.]
350 AD Athanasius referred to it in his De Incarnatione
398 AD Aurelius Augustine used it to defend Trinitarianism in De Trinitate against the heresy of Sabellianism
415 AD Council of Carthage appealed to 1 John 5:7 when debating the Arian belief (Arians didn't believe in the deity of Jesus Christ)
450-530 AD Several orthodox African writers quoted the verse when defending the doctrine of the Trinity against the gainsaying of the Vandals. These writers are:
A) Vigilius Tapensis in "Three Witnesses in Heaven"
B) Victor Vitensis in his Historia persecutionis [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. vii, p. 60.]
C) Fulgentius in "The Three Heavenly Witnesses" [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 65, col. 500.]
500 AD Cassiodorus cited it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 70, col. 1373.]
550 AD Old Latin ms r has it
550 AD The "Speculum" has it [The Speculum is a treatise that contains some good Old Latin scriptures.]
750 AD Wianburgensis referred to it
800 AD Jerome's Vulgate has it [It was not in Jerome's original Vulgate, but was brought in about 800 AD from good Old Latin manuscripts.]
1000s AD miniscule 635 has it
1150 AD minuscule ms 88 in the margin
1300s AD miniscule 629 has it
157-1400 AD Waldensian (that is, Vaudois) Bibles have the verse
1500 AD ms 61 has the verse
Even Nestle's 26th edition Greek New Testament, based upon the corrupt Alexandrian text, admits that these and other important manuscripts have the verse: 221 v.l.; 2318 Vulgate [Claromontanus]; 629; 61; 88; 429 v.l.; 636 v.l.; 918; l; r.
 

Episkopos

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A Trail of Evidence

But during this same time, we find mention of 1 John 5:7, from about 200 AD through the 1500s. Here is a useful timeline of references to this verse:

200 AD Tertullian wrote "which three are one" based on the verse in his Against Praxeas, chapter 25.
250 AD Cyprian of Carthage, wrote, "And again, of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost it is written: "And the three are One" in his On The Lapsed, On the Novatians, (see note for Old Latin)
350 AD Priscillian referred to it [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. xviii, p. 6.]
350 AD Idacius Clarus referred to it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 62, col. 359.]
350 AD Athanasius referred to it in his De Incarnatione
398 AD Aurelius Augustine used it to defend Trinitarianism in De Trinitate against the heresy of Sabellianism
415 AD Council of Carthage appealed to 1 John 5:7 when debating the Arian belief (Arians didn't believe in the deity of Jesus Christ)
450-530 AD Several orthodox African writers quoted the verse when defending the doctrine of the Trinity against the gainsaying of the Vandals. These writers are:
A) Vigilius Tapensis in "Three Witnesses in Heaven"
B) Victor Vitensis in his Historia persecutionis [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. vii, p. 60.]
C) Fulgentius in "The Three Heavenly Witnesses" [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 65, col. 500.]
500 AD Cassiodorus cited it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 70, col. 1373.]
550 AD Old Latin ms r has it
550 AD The "Speculum" has it [The Speculum is a treatise that contains some good Old Latin scriptures.]
750 AD Wianburgensis referred to it
800 AD Jerome's Vulgate has it [It was not in Jerome's original Vulgate, but was brought in about 800 AD from good Old Latin manuscripts.]
1000s AD miniscule 635 has it
1150 AD minuscule ms 88 in the margin
1300s AD miniscule 629 has it
157-1400 AD Waldensian (that is, Vaudois) Bibles have the verse
1500 AD ms 61 has the verse
Even Nestle's 26th edition Greek New Testament, based upon the corrupt Alexandrian text, admits that these and other important manuscripts have the verse: 221 v.l.; 2318 Vulgate [Claromontanus]; 629; 61; 88; 429 v.l.; 636 v.l.; 918; l; r.


We see the desire of the Roman religious hierarchy to control the people in their adding to the canon of scripture. The earliest such deviation we find in Matt. 28:19...changing the original text from "baptizing them in My name"...to "baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit"

The religion that has become Christianity was manipulated by religious clerics to bring the ignorant masses under its control. The supposed "reformation" only made things worse but perpetuating the hierarchical control over the faithful and persecuting those who sought to be directed connected to God...without them!

All religious systems are man-made and man perpetuated. After so many deviations that should be apparent.
 

Charlie24

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We see the desire of the Roman religious hierarchy to control the people in their adding to the canon of scripture. The earliest such deviation we find in Matt. 28:19...changing the original text from "baptizing them in My name"...to "baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit"

The religion that has become Christianity was manipulated by religious clerics to bring the ignorant masses under its control. The supposed "reformation" only made things worse but perpetuating the hierarchical control over the faithful and persecuting those who sought to be directed connected to God...without them!

All religious systems are man-made and man perpetuated. After so many deviations that should be apparent.

The worst that could possibly take place in violation of the Word of God, took place during the formation of the RCC.
 

Robert Gwin

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1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.


Verse 7 does not say God is 3 persons. Contrary, this says he is one. Like a super mom who is off to work every day, comes home and cooks, is then nurse to sick child and on weekends becomes soccer mom - but is only one person.

If she were separate persons, she would read as verse 8 - these three agree in one.

Very true, God is not 3 persons, in fact no being is.
 
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user

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We see the desire of the Roman religious hierarchy to control the people in their adding to the canon of scripture. The earliest such deviation we find in Matt. 28:19...changing the original text from "baptizing them in My name"...to "baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit"

The religion that has become Christianity was manipulated by religious clerics to bring the ignorant masses under its control. The supposed "reformation" only made things worse but perpetuating the hierarchical control over the faithful and persecuting those who sought to be directed connected to God...without them!

All religious systems are man-made and man perpetuated. After so many deviations that should be apparent.

I agree, Matt 28:19 has been changed.
It should have supported the following...

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Keep up the good work.
 

Episkopos

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The worst that could possibly take place in violation of the Word of God, took place during the formation of the RCC.


That was only the first step into the great delusion. The second step away from the truth was taken by Luther. He built on the first error by changing Paul's meaning to deviate people from the path of life. Today, basically all Protestants read Paul through the mind of Luther. The gospel was never to be about personal salvation. The true gospel is about the coming of and the availability of the kingdom realm of the Spirit.
 
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Episkopos

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Ever read another translation?
7 So we have these three witnesses— 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood—and all three agree. NLT


The supposed Greek text that this was translated from was corrupted by Erasmus in the 15th century. At first he refused to do the bidding of the clerics...but when they presented him with a manuscript that had been added to with a look of authenticity...then he was no longer able to resist adding it into the bible.

All translations that post date that addition to the text have that corrupted text added to it.

The RC institution reserves the right to put tradition on an equal footing with scripture. And Luther had no problem with that when it comes to maintaining control over the beliefs of the ignorant masses.