KJV Only?

[Augustin56]

All translations into the vernacular (English in this case) have errors in translation due to the fact that there are some words and phrases that don't translate well into other languages. The Bible was never meant to be a do-it-yourself Christianity kit. It is a tool of the Church founded by Christ to spread His truths. It was the Church that provided the New Testament and chose the Septuagint version of the Old Testament to form what we call the Bible today.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Have you proven your point or God's?

Precious brother, Amadeus, thanks for asking. I have great and high regard for a much elder brother
than me, who is continually serving God, and helping a "not knowing it all" student such as me to be
"sharpened iron with iron."

Would this "proving my point" be in accordance With This Scripture?:

"prove all things; hold fast to that which is good" (1 Thessalonians 5:21)?​

I believe in my op that I was simply "planting a seed" [ and "inviting precious @12question over
here," so I would not derail another thread with answering his/her question here * ] showing the
evidence [ proof? ] I found that seems to be "lacking much" as "pertaining to equality of versions"
and Which One I should seek out in order to "be Approved unto God," thus "pleasing Him."

Amen?

Praying that this would also thereby challenge others [ newcomers? ] * to think about and
investigate for themselves this Critical Pure/Preserved Word Of Truth issue? Because, As
God Says to Each of us:

"So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God." (Romans 14:12), Correct?​

I'm not too sure about, so may I kindly ask: Precious brother, what do you see as:

"God's Point" in this Critically Important issue [ or is it not such? ]?​

Best regards
younger Brother ChrisE

* @12question asks, from another thread:

"What does this mean: "God is not the author of confusion..."?​

 

[amadeus]

Precious brother, Amadeus, thanks for asking. I have great and high regard for a much elder brother
than me, who is continually serving God, and helping a "not knowing it all" student such as me to be
"sharpened iron with iron."

God, I believe, can use anyone or anything to help out even the oldest of people. Then there are babies in Christ [at any physical age] or more experienced people who simply do not understand or misunderstand single points or questions. Will not God provide what is needed, if the person is searching sincerely for Truth? I would say, yes, and certainly sometimes you might be the one with the needed answer.

I do not know all of the answers, so sometimes I ask questions hoping to receive a clearer understanding myself. Sometimes [more often? Hmm...?], I simply listen or seek via conversations like this one or within my own Bibles or directly. When I draw conclusions, are they God's or my own? Sometimes I may know, but do any of us always know when we know rather than believe that we know?

Would this "proving my point" be in accordance With This Scripture?:

"prove all things; hold fast to that which is good" (1 Thessalonians 5:21)?​

Prove it for ourselves, as we are able, certainly... but who alone is able to do just that? Prove it for others? Perhaps when opportunity arises and we are so led by the Spirit.

I believe in my op that I was simply "planting a seed" [ and "inviting precious @12question over
here," so I would not derail another thread with answering his/her question here * ] showing the
evidence [ proof? ] I found that seems to be "lacking much" as "pertaining to equality of versions"
and Which One I should seek out in order to "be Approved unto God," thus "pleasing Him."

Amen?

Amen... plant the seeds as God directs us. There was a time when I would have and often did argue strongly in favor of the KJV versus all other English versions.

But God, through my own experience as well as through that of others on this or other forums, halted me in that. He is always able to direct a person along the right pathway... IF the person is truly willing to follow Him. Sometimes still after so many years I see only the next step. Who is able to see farther ahead than that? My point is not that you are wrong, but rather that you continue walking carefully as He leads.

Praying that this would also thereby challenge others [ newcomers? ] * to think about and
investigate for themselves this Critical Pure/Preserved Word Of Truth issue? Because, As
God Says to Each of us:

"So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God." (Romans 14:12), Correct?​

I'm not too sure about, so may I kindly ask: Precious brother, what do you see as:

"God's Point" in this Critically Important issue [ or is it not such? ]?​

I, myself, see the KJV is my best English Bible to be read along with my German and Spanish versions, but not everyone is as I am. While our final goals are mostly [emphasis on mostly] the same, we do not all have the same gifts nor are we the same parts of the Body of Christ. What is right for one in one instance may not always apply to everyone.

Best regards
younger Brother ChrisE

* @12question asks, from another thread:

"What does this mean: "God is not the author of confusion..."?​

Confusion is not directly authored by God, but it is, I believe, allowed by Him. He created man with a "will" of his own, "free will' we often call it. We are free to do things God's Way or our own. Confusion is to be found most often perhaps in the mixture of the two rather in man's own way alone. Those who try to ride the fence or to take the "lukewarm" pathway are the greatest abomination to God and they are the most confused.


If the words written in the Bible were indeed inspired by God, who would be able to know it without a revelation from God? Does God speak to our hearts? I am certain that He does as He spoke to Abraham, who apparently had no written source book. He speaks also to us in various ways including through scripture. But... not through scripture alone! Does not scripture itself declare this?

"Knowest thou the time when the wild goats of the rock bring forth? or canst thou mark when the hinds do calve?

Canst thou number the months that they fulfil? or knowest thou the time when they bring forth?

They bow themselves, they bring forth their young ones, they cast out their sorrows.

Their young ones are in good liking, they grow up with corn; they go forth, and return not unto them.

Who hath sent out the wild ass free? or who hath loosed the bands of the wild ass?" Job 39:1-5

Today some people who have not read the Bible could probably answer some of those questions of God to Job and other such questions. God was asking Job questions to which Job did not know the answers, but did not God make it possible for some people so inclined to obtain the answers?


God does not, I believe, intend to cause confusion, even though, (knowing His creation) He knows that confusion will occur because men want to, in effect, have their cake and eat it too. In other words, men want what they see as the good things of God as well as the things their own lusts and pride would call "good". This is continuing to eat of the wrong tree. They may also continue to be confused.


Can we ever hit the mark by either simple or complex rationalization? Remember again that Job wanted the opportunity to reason with God. He, in effect, wanted to make God understand His error and change things to the way Job thought they ought to be.

He wanted to teach God.

When Job was given the opportunity to speak directly with God, he was made to realize his foolishness, his own confusion,. He put his hand over his mouth and spoke no more.

 

[12question]

Confusion is not directly authored by God, but it is, I believe, allowed by Him

If one was to compare scripture with scripture as some are accustomed to practice, then they may find that God actually both allows and causes with intent, confusion (The act of failing to differentiate, one person or thing, from another.)

Example #1

1 Kings 22:19-23

King James Version
19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.​

20 And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him.
22 And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
23 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.

God seemed to encourage confusion. He gets one prophet (Micaiah) to saying one thing and gets others to say another to bring confusion to King Ahab.

Example #2

Ex 14:24 During the last watch of the night the LORD looked down from the pillar of fire and cloud at the Egyptian army and threw it into confusion. 25 He jammed the wheels of their chariots so that they had difficulty driving. And the Egyptians said, “Let's get away from the Israelites!
KJV
24 And it came to pass, that in the morning watch the Lord looked unto the host of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and of the cloud, and troubled the host of the Egyptians.

Example #3

Judges 7:19 So Gideon, and the hundred men that were with him, came unto the outside of the camp in the beginning of the middle watch; and they had but newly set the watch: and they blew the trumpets, and brake the pitchers that were in their hands.

20 And the three companies blew the trumpets, and brake the pitchers, and held the lamps in their left hands, and the trumpets in their right hands to blow withal: and they cried, The sword of the Lord, and of Gideon.

21 And they stood every man in his place round about the camp; and all the host ran, and cried, and fled.

22 And the three hundred blew the trumpets, and the Lord set every man's sword against his fellow, even throughout all the host.

In these 3 accoubts it sounds like God was the author of confusion. What do you think?

 

[amadeus]

If one was to compare scripture with scripture as some are accustomed to practice, then they may find that God actually both allows and causes with intent, confusion (The act of failing to differentiate, one person or thing, from another.)

Example #1

1 Kings 22:19-23

King James Version​

19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.​

20 And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.
21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him.
22 And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
23 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.

God seemed to encourage confusion. He gets one prophet (Micaiah) to saying one thing and gets others to say another to bring confusion to King Ahab.

Example #2

Ex 14:24 During the last watch of the night the LORD looked down from the pillar of fire and cloud at the Egyptian army and threw it into confusion. 25 He jammed the wheels of their chariots so that they had difficulty driving. And the Egyptians said, “Let's get away from the Israelites!
KJV
24 And it came to pass, that in the morning watch the Lord looked unto the host of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and of the cloud, and troubled the host of the Egyptians.

Example #3

Judges 7:19 So Gideon, and the hundred men that were with him, came unto the outside of the camp in the beginning of the middle watch; and they had but newly set the watch: and they blew the trumpets, and brake the pitchers that were in their hands.

20 And the three companies blew the trumpets, and brake the pitchers, and held the lamps in their left hands, and the trumpets in their right hands to blow withal: and they cried, The sword of the Lord, and of Gideon.

21 And they stood every man in his place round about the camp; and all the host ran, and cried, and fled.

22 And the three hundred blew the trumpets, and the Lord set every man's sword against his fellow, even throughout all the host.

In these 3 accoubts it sounds like God was the author of confusion. What do you think?

Consider the Right hand and the Left hand of God:

The man by whom the offence comes is one who puts himself in place to do the lefthand work of God. He invokes a curse. How long should a man remain double-minded, working first for God [the lefthand], but then also at times working with God [the right hand]. We [believers] don't usually [if ever?] consciously work for God as his left hand, but He uses that which is available to do that which invoked by a person. Are not curses sometimes invoked by what even a believing person does or does not do?

"A double minded man is unstable in all his ways." James 1:8
Perhaps being double mined or unstable is being confused.

Consider whether the blessings and curses of God are directly authored by Him or invoked by the choices of men?

Does God cause confusion, or do men create it when they trying to ride the fence between their own will and the will of God?

 

[Berserk]

I find it so ironic that the very fundamentalists who pride themselves in having the highest view of biblical inspiration insist on using the most corrupt translation. Due to the tired eyes of ancient copyists, there are 400,000 variant readings in NT manuscripts and the KJV is based just 4 very late Byzantine texts. Since the early 1600s, many much older and demonstrably more reliable Greek manuscripts have been discovered to help Text Critics bring us closer to the pure original Word of God.

 

[BlessedPeace]

I love the language flow in the KJV.

You know,the KJV was not the first Bible published.

Codex Sinaiticus was.

 

[Berserk]

I love the language flow in the KJV.

So you care more about the lyrical quality of the KJV than preserving the purity of God's original Word.

You know,the KJV was not the first Bible published.

Actually, the first English Bible was the Tyndale Translation.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Precious friend, thanks for your information. With all due respect, may I humbly ask:
Since the KJV is "not inspired" does that then mean that This is partially false?:

"All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for​

reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God​

may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:16)​

​

In which case, I can only "trust God" For only 86% of This Scripture, when God Commands:

"...man shall not live by bread alone, but by Every Word That​

Proceedeth Out Of The Mouth Of God" (Matt 4;4; Luke 4:4)?​

I believe my faith is supposed to be 100%, not partial, Correct?

Amen.

Well let us understand "inspired"

The original autographs of the scriptures and all faithful copies in the original languages are inspired in the sense they are direct from God.

Translations are inspired but not on the same level as the original Scriptures in the language of the day. Translations will always suffer because going from one language to another always cause information to be lost or partially missing (greek can say more with a word ending . We would need a phrase to capture what is said in a greek ending)

Also as time has passed we have lost the understanidng of how things were written and how they were understood in the culture of the day.

Given this- we can be safely assured that faithful translations- though lacking by virtue of being a lingui9stic translation will not suffer doctrinally for a believer in todays languages.

It is like a pastors message. It also is inspired but not on the same level as SCripture was inspired. The Bible was written as God dragged the writers along to write.

 

[Taken]

KJV Only?

Bible selection is personal preference.

I find Older Bibles top my interest.
I use several Bibles for my own studies.
I typically choose to use the KJV for “quoting and discussion”.

Review of MODERN Bibles are a let down, and not to my liking.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I love the language flow in the KJV.

You know,the KJV was not the first Bible published.

Codex Sinaiticus was.

Not the first published, but the first mass produced in English and the first commissioned and done by a host of linguistic scholars.

 

[BlessedPeace]

I love the language flow in the KJV.

You know,the KJV was not the first Bible published.

Codex Sinaiticus was.

@GRACE ambassador , Codex Sinaiticus, the earliest known manuscript of the Christian Bible, compiled in the 4th century CE.

Codex Sinaiticus | Earliest Known Biblical Manuscript

Codex Sinaiticus, the earliest known manuscript of the Christian Bible, compiled in the 4th century ce. In 1844, 43 leaves of a 4th-century biblical codex (a collection of single pages bound together along one side) were discovered at St. Catherine’s Monastery at the foot of Mount Sinai (hence the

www.britannica.com

 

[Ronald Nolette]

@GRACE ambassador , Codex Sinaiticus, the earliest known manuscript of the Christian Bible, compiled in the 4th century CE.

Codex Sinaiticus | Earliest Known Biblical Manuscript

Codex Sinaiticus, the earliest known manuscript of the Christian Bible, compiled in the 4th century ce. In 1844, 43 leaves of a 4th-century biblical codex (a collection of single pages bound together along one side) were discovered at St. Catherine’s Monastery at the foot of Mount Sinai (hence the

www.britannica.com

Well it is not the ealriest manuscript of the NT. It is the earliest complete NT manuscript. There are partial manuscripts far earlier than sinaiticus. Also in the writings of the ante nicene fathers, the entrire NT except 27 verses is found.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Well it is not the ealriest manuscript of the NT. It is the earliest complete NT manuscript. There are partial manuscripts far earlier than sinaiticus. Also in the writings of the ante nicene fathers, the entrire NT except 27 verses is found.

The discussion was, earliest Bible. Not earliest partial manuscript.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The discussion was, earliest Bible. Not earliest partial manuscript.

Welol I just saw manuscript, so my bad.

 

[amadeus]

I find it so ironic that the very fundamentalists who pride themselves in having the highest view of biblical inspiration insist on using the most corrupt translation. Due to the tired eyes of ancient copyists, there are 400,000 variant readings in NT manuscripts and the KJV is based just 4 very late Byzantine texts. Since the early 1600s, many much older and demonstrably more reliable Greek manuscripts have been discovered to help Text Critics bring us closer to the pure original Word of God.

Is not God able to bring to Life His Word within any reader of any of the various translations... even those often harshly criticized? Must a Bible reader be also an expert in the original languages in order to move closer to God? Fortunately, what we read or hear of the Bible [in any language or translation] may also quickened [brought to Life] within us by the Holy Spirit. What a mighty God we serve!


“But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.” Matt 19:26

Mt 19:26

Jesus aber sah sie an und sprach zu ihnen: Bei den Menschen ist es unmöglich; aber bei Gott sind alle Dinge möglich.

Mt 19:26

Mirándolos Jesús, les dijo: Para los hombres esto es imposible; mas para Dios todo es posible.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Is not God able to bring to Life His Word within any reader of any of the various translations... even those often harshly criticized? Must a Bible reader be also an expert in the original languages in order to move closer to God? Fortunately, what we read or hear of the Bible [in any language or translation] may also quickened [brought to Life] within us by the Holy Spirit. What a mighty God we serve!


“But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.” Matt 19:26

Mt 19:26

Jesus aber sah sie an und sprach zu ihnen: Bei den Menschen ist es unmöglich; aber bei Gott sind alle Dinge möglich.

Mt 19:26

Mirándolos Jesús, les dijo: Para los hombres esto es imposible; mas para Dios todo es posible.

Yes that is true, we can grow mightily by any English translation. But by taking time to learn the culture, and original languages it is like the difference between a man who can lift 300 pounds and a man who can lift 500 pounds. both are doing wonderfully, but one is stronger than the other. That is the difference between just reading English only and studying in depth simply because teh bible was written in different language and in a different culture who understood many things differently than we as 21st Century gentile believers do.

 

[marks]

I find it so ironic that the very fundamentalists who pride themselves in having the highest view of biblical inspiration insist on using the most corrupt translation. Due to the tired eyes of ancient copyists, there are 400,000 variant readings in NT manuscripts and the KJV is based just 4 very late Byzantine texts. Since the early 1600s, many much older and demonstrably more reliable Greek manuscripts have been discovered to help Text Critics bring us closer to the pure original Word of God.

Those oldest two or three manuscripts . . . how much agreement do they share between them? I've heard it's only about 75%. Does that sound right?

Much love!

 

[marks]

KJV Only?

Bible selection is personal preference.

I find Older Bibles top my interest.
I use several Bibles for my own studies.
I typically choose to use the KJV for “quoting and discussion”.

Review of MODERN Bibles are a let down, and not to my liking.

Glory to God,
Taken

Ditto on all this.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

Yes that is true, we can grow mightily by any English translation. But by taking time to learn the culture, and original languages it is like the difference between a man who can lift 300 pounds and a man who can lift 500 pounds. both are doing wonderfully, but one is stronger than the other. That is the difference between just reading English only and studying in depth simply because teh bible was written in different language and in a different culture who understood many things differently than we as 21st Century gentile believers do.

It comes back to Luke 12:48 with "much is given...much required..." In a sense as I understand it, it would be easier for a believer with a below average IQ [man's measurement] to enter the kingdom of God than one rated as a genius.

Mt 19:24

And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

This is a problem especially for American believers as well as those for believers in other rich supposedly Christian western societies who have so much [materially] compared with most of those living in what have named third world countries.