The challenge in Christianity is not to love Jesus, it's to love Judas.

VictoryinJesus said:

To doubt the interpretation of men does not mean you doubt the Word of God. You’ll hear that often, how if you don’t agree with -an interpretation then you don’t believe the Word of God. for instance Judas is burning in an eternal hell forever because his repentance wasn’t really remorse. I’m not doubting Judas repented as it is written. Who really is doubting a man like Judas could repent? I’m only asking if the decision on what “repent” meant regarding a man who took the money back to those who paid him to betray Jesus and told them “I have sinned against innocent blood” where they said “what’s that to us?” …is it possible what repent translated regarding Judas can be traced back to the first men who got together and decided they didn’t want Judas to have genuine saving remorse? The same ones who regurgitate “we are just filthy sinners not deserving of Grace”? You don’t ever see the many contradictions? It’s not about doubting the Word of God. It’s doubting what we have done to the Word of God to back our (own) opinions.

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Well t hen please tell me what interpretation of men you are doubting. I must have missed the part where you were pointing out mens opinions and not the Word of God.

marks said:

No one here has the the slightest opportunity to "love Judas" considering no one here has over known Judas. He is long gone. You can pretend to "love" your fictionalized idea of who you think Judas was, but let's be real. No one can love someone they've never even known. This so-called challenge makes a mockery of love, as if it's just some idea in the mind, or sensation in the soul, about some inner imagination.

Much love!

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Jesus loved Judas and we are to follow His example by loving the other Judases in the world the way that He did.

Pearl said:

We love Jesus by taking him to our hearts and living our lives to please him.

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How do we live to please Jesus? By obeying Him. What is one of the ways that we do that? By loving our neighbor, which includes our enemies, and other Judases in the world in the ways that He did.

Ronald Nolette said:

Well t hen please tell me what interpretation of men you are doubting. I must have missed the part where you were pointing out mens opinions and not the Word of God.

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I thought I did. We were talking about the usage of Judas repented. You pointed out it wasn’t the saving kind of remorse. (Only because the Pharisees and Sadducees said it had nothing to do with them.) I simply don’t have knowledge on how words originally get their meaning. I asked if men who had the opinion that Judas is burning in hell, were they swayed to say their opinion of which “repent” pertained to Judas? Does that make sense? It does say Judas repented. That I don’t doubt. What I do doubt is who decided which repent it was? does doubting the translators or if they had an already formed opinion, equal doubting the Word of God? Men say yea. To Doubt us, ia to doubt the Word of God.

The nearest example I can find for the two kinds of remorse in the Word is:
2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow works repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world works death.

Judas sorrow was that he had sinned against innocent blood. If anyone had worldly sorrow it was those religious men who had paid Judas to betray innocent blood and to save face(their own image not after the image of God) they turned Judas away when he came to return the money confessing he was guilty of betraying innocent blood. Instead of restoring a brother caught in a hideous transgression like in Galatians 6:1-2 Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted(tempted to what?). [2] Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

Instead when Judas went to return the money and confessed openly he saw Christ was innocent and he had betrayed innocent blood …notice above to “bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ” they had no interest in fulfilling that law of Christ. How many Today are eager to pronounce Judas as cursed forever? Instead they told Judas when he said “I have sinned against blood”, “what’s that to us?” Notice their only concern in fulfilling the Word of God was, was it lawful to put to silver for the price of innocent blood in to the treasury? Yes! The silver is their brother whose returned confessing “I have betrayed innocent blood!l My opinion is Judas was (the price of innocent blood…who paid the Price?) which was lawful to put in the treasury. God does not desire money nor sacrifice but God desires Mercy? Those standing in the temple as gods had an opportunity to restore one caught in a transgression. Will God burn Judas in hell for their refusal? It being “lawful” to restore a brother caught in a transgression to the treasury of God, the living sacrifice. The true treasure of God in their fulfilling the law of Christ in ‘Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness.’

So much so that Luke 19:41-42 And when he drew near and saw the city, he wept over it, [42] saying, "Would that you, even you, (if you) had known on this day the things that make for peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes.

Sorry I do think Judas who even betrayed Christ, will enter in confessing he betrayed innocent blood—before those religious leaders who claimed to be spiritual but refused to help their own brother confessing instead “what’s it to us” which means they themselves betrayed a brother caught in a transgression. In betraying a brother caught in a transgression, they betrayed Christ. Rejection of a brother caught in a transgression, For whom Jesus Christ died.

marks said:

Love Judas? Are you kidding? You can't do that!

You've never met Judas, he's no longer alive, so you do not have the opportunity to love Judas. You can purport to "love" a fictionalized image of Judas you imagine in your mind, but that has nothing to do with loving a person.

In this case, the person is long gone. Whatever are you thinking?! I guess it sounded good on paper?

Much love!

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True Judas is no longer alive. But the spirit to boast against how rotten Judas was and how God won’t forgive that is very much alive today. To me that is the significance in looking closely at Judas. In perspective of all the songs we sing concerning God’s mercy reaches further and deeper than men claim solely for themselves. Making us walking contradictions. Rejecting all the Judases of the world. I’m sorry but haven’t you noticed how pompous we get even confirming Judas is roasting in hell, but of course we are chosen as the spiritual ones. It has to do with today. Because our desire to prove Judas is roasting confirms all those today who are only the chosen, and validates our saying “what’s that have to do with us?” If those who refuse roast? Who is refusing who?

VictoryinJesus said:

Who is refusing who?

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Whether you walk in pride or humility, it's got nothing to do Judas. Yes, you are right, the real issue is whether we are loving those around us today.

This whole Judas thing is a straw man, a literary device intended to be used however the writer wants to. It's not real. Loving people around us, that's real.

Much love!

St. SteVen said:

"Say what?"
"Love Judas? We hate Judas!"
"He betrayed our Lord! Why would we love Judas?"

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Learn to love Jesus, and leave Judas to history.

You neither love Judas nor hate Judas, you've never even met the man. All you have is a handful of ideas about him, and you can pretend to "love" that fictional concept, but it's a crock. Just another manipulative and deceptive thread to litter this Christian forum with.

Much love? Is that love? To manipulate and deceive? No it is not.

marks said:

Whether you walk in pride or humility, it's got nothing to do Judas. Yes, you are right, the real issue is whether we are loving those around us today.

This whole Judas thing is a straw man, a literary device intended to be used however the writer wants to. It's not real. Loving people around us, that's real.

Much love!

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With all due respect that is your opinion. If we have learned anything on the board it’s that every one has an opinion. I’m curious why you come to the thread if you feel it’s pointless to discuss ‘ The challenge in Christianity is not to love Jesus, it’s to love Judas.’

This thread makes me consider the verse that is quoted often on how all scripture is profitable… I’ve never noticed Galatians 6:1-2 in relation to when Judas returned the money to the temple, saying, he had sinned against innocent blood. ‘Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. [2] Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.’

I don’t think it is possible horrible to at least consider it. The title of the thread isn’t horrible either to consider (Imo). Especially when we are told God’s perfection is that he does not only love those who love Him. And even how the pagans love them who love them. And also, how Jesus told a parable about those who would believe in Him for a season but when they became offended, they would walk away from love growing cold. So the title poses a thought, not to rob Jesus of admiration and love, but to pose the question: if you love Jesus, but you hate Judas. Where we hear or read something similar in if we say we love God, yet hate our brother the love of God is not in us. What does that reveal? Instead, we deceive ourselves and remain in darkness still. The thread poses a question. A good one I think. (But that is just my opinion.)

you said in an earlier post “Love Judas? Are you kidding? You can't do that!

You've never met Judas, he's no longer alive, so you do not have the opportunity to love Judas. You can purport to "love" a fictionalized image of Judas you imagine in your mind, but that has nothing to do with loving a person.

In this case, the person is long gone. Whatever are you thinking?! I guess it sounded good on paper?”

The same could be said of Paul, Peter, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Moses, Stephen, Luke, Mark, John the Baptist and even Jesus. Jesus there stumps me yet we are to know no man any longer after the flesh. Point is “You've never met Paul, he's no longer alive, so you do not have the opportunity to love Paul. You can purport to "love" a fictionalized image of Paul you imagine in your mind, but that has nothing to do with loving a person.

In this case, the person is long gone. Whatever are you thinking?! I guess it sounded good on paper?” <then why read any of the retelling of any of them? Like David too!?

John the Baptist is interesting because John lost his head while still in prison. Yes Judas hung, and fell his bowels gushing out. And we discuss what happened to John after he died in prison?

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VictoryinJesus said:

The same could be said of Paul, Peter, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Moses, Stephen, Luke, Mark, and even Jesus.

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No, that's not true of Jesus. He is alive and here.

VictoryinJesus said:

So the title proposes a thought, not to rob Jesus of admiration and love, but to pose the question: you love Jesus, but you hate Judas.

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This thread promotes "loving Judas" as more important than loving Jesus. Seriously? So I posted to reveal the fallacious logic. It's a scam.

Call it my opinion, call it what you want . . . if you don't know someone, all you have is a mental construct of what you think they may be like. And if you "love" that, you are only "loving" your own imagination of them. Can you explain to me how that relates to loving a person who is with you?

Can you feed and clothe Judas? Can you pray for him to know Christ? Can you write him a letter, make a phone call, visit him in sickness, encourage him in the Lord? How do we show love for others? Can you do any of those things for Judas? I don't believe you can. Call it opinion, but to me it's a fact.

And who is it that "hates" Judas? Once again, I suggest that's not possible. We may hate what he did, we may "hate" our mental image of the man, but no one here knows or knew Judas.

And holding this up as some litmus test of your Christianity, my opinion? That's hogwash.

Let's not gut "love" of meaning by misusing it this way.

Much love!

marks said:

Can you explain to me how that relates to loving a person who is with you?

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Only my personal experience. it’s oh so easy to love my grandchildren. It’s easy to pray for my family. It’s not easy to love those who have caused me harm. It’s not easy to pray for what belongs to God ..his children including those who are weak and without power…but oh so easy to pray earnestly for my own family.

marks said:

Can you feed and clothe Judas? Can you pray for him to know Christ? Can you write him a letter, make a phone call, visit him in sickness, encourage him in the Lord? How do we show love for others? Can you do any of those things for Judas? I don't believe you can. Call it opinion, but to me it's a fact.

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You asked “can you write him a letter.” A short testimony that may not make sense. But yes, Judas can teach, just as God says multiple times to hand them over to satan that they may learn not to blasphemy His name. Also, put them without. There is a couple in our life. Concerning our first grandchild they have caused a lot of hurt and pain (I mean rip you apart pain that makes you sick from worry pain) and still until this day their presence remains. There has been court proceedings in the past. You don’t have to believe me but I witnessed years and they did lie and still do. I thought the lies would come out into the light. They didn’t but the court decided and they still have gotten away with all they did to this day without any regret or remorse that I’ve (yet)seen. I’ve had to love them because they are our grandsons other grandparents. We did wrong too. I’m far from perfect. The only difference is we did experience shame (not so willingly as it come to light) from our being wrong. They have not experience that shame yet, but are well respected in the community based of a false image. Years ago, late one night I wrote the grandmother of our grandson a letter. It was heavy on my heart to forgive her. She took the letter and In court where I wasn’t given a chance to take the stand…she read my letter out loud in front of everyone to say how I even supported her actions just because I choose to forgive her. I can’t express to you how I sat there in silence while she read the letter, my face burning with embarrassment.

I get you may still say that has nothing to do with Judas. To me it does. I assume many could write books on “loving Judas” especially those Jews who were in the holocaust. Love isn’t always easy. “Loving Judas” has a theme I think, a message not to be ignored. I’m curious even that you say all the names listed are Alive, and have already cast judgement that Judas is the one name there that is dead.

VictoryinJesus said:

I’m curious even that you say all the names listed are Alive, and have already cast judgement that Judas is the one name there that is dead.

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I said that Jesus is the One Who is here, that we can actually love. The others are not.

Much love!

marks said:

I said that Jesus is the One Who is here, that we can actually love. The others are not.

Much love!

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Thanks for the clarification. I misunderstood what you meant.

you said Jesus is the One Who is here, that we can actually love. To me it’s the same. where loving Jesus who is here, that we can actually love ..can be loving those who we think don’t deserve it.

VictoryinJesus said:

I thought I did. We were talking about the usage of Judas repented. You pointed out it wasn’t the saving kind of remorse. (Only because the Pharisees and Sadducees said it had nothing to do with them.) I simply don’t have knowledge on how words originally get their meaning. I asked if men who had the opinion that Judas is burning in hell, were they swayed to say their opinion of which “repent” pertained to Judas? Does that make sense? It does say Judas repented. That I don’t doubt. What I do doubt is who decided which repent it was? does doubting the translators or if they had an already formed opinion, equal doubting the Word of God? Men say yea. To Doubt us, ia to doubt the Word of God.

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I will not speak of the Sanhedrin, for that is a different topic. I did not say that Judas did not have godly repentance because of the Pharisees and HIgh Priest, I say Judas did not having saving repentance because that is what the Bible delcares in its original autographs. Blue Letter Bible is a good tool online to see the words originally used.

As to what appears in the bible, you either have to accept that God protected what became the New Testament from mens opinions or He did not. It was the apostle Matthew who said Judas did not repent to salvation. It was jesus who called Judas a devil and the son of Perdition, and it was the Apostles in replacing Judas who spoke of his condemnation. You have to decide if these came from god or not. If not, then you have a real problem with the Word of God.

Ronald Nolette said:

I will not speak of the Sanhedrin, for that is a different topic. I did not say that Judas did not have godly repentance because of the Pharisees and HIgh Priest, I say Judas did not having saving repentance because that is what the Bible delcares in its original autographs. Blue Letter Bible is a good tool online to see the words originally used.

As to what appears in the bible, you either have to accept that God protected what became the New Testament from mens opinions or He did not. It was the apostle Matthew who said Judas did not repent to salvation. It was jesus who called Judas a devil and the son of Perdition, and it was the Apostles in replacing Judas who spoke of his condemnation. You have to decide if these came from god or not. If not, then you have a real problem with the Word of God.

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Curious what Matthew 16:22-23 means to you?
And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, "Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you." [23] But he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man."

shepherdsword said:

If Jesus loved Judas as much as you claim he would have been forgiven the same way Peter was.

You answered your own question. Why should I attempt to get through to you with anything other than, loving Jesus includes loving your enemies as well possible life sacrifices I maintain that loving him is the true challenge. I didn't say difficulty, I said challenge.

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I have chosen you , but one of you is a Devil .
Jacob have i loved but essau have i hated .
JESUS KNEW exactly what judas was from the beginning .
Its the apostels that could not and did not know .
People seem to forget things , or actually never learned for themselves .
I THANK THEE O FATHER that you have HIDDEN these things from the wise and revealed them unto babes
FOR SO was it GOOD in your site.
THE new age of men has come down upon and within christendom .
And if you examine this love your enemy , love judas
YOU GONNA find its not at all compatible to what JESUS meant when he said LOVE your enemies .
BECAUSE the love i see them giving out to these unrepentant , KEY WORD , unrepentant
IS NOT LOVE . for love had corrected the sin and error .
ITS HATE . they hate their enemies . YE shall not hate your neighbor in your heart you shall in any way Rebuke him
and NOT ALLOW SIN upon him .
BUT they not only ALLOW sin upon them , THEY EVEN HONOR their sins . NOW WHERE IS THE LOVE OF GOD IN ALL of that .
Sounds like something satan would say . But marvel not . He can surely quoate any scripture
SO BELIEVE ME , HE can say GOD IS LOVE but the love he presents leads all TO REBELLION AGAINST GOD and HIS CHRIST
and the saints who actually hold a bible and try and correct this people .

amigo de christo said:

I have chosen you , but one of you is a Devil .
Jacob have i loved but essau have i hated .
JESUS KNEW exactly what judas was from the beginning .
Its the apostels that could not and did not know .
People seem to forget things , or actually never learned for themselves .
I THANK THEE O FATHER that you have HIDDEN these things from the wise and revealed them unto babes
FOR SO was it GOOD in your site.
THE new age of men has come down upon and within christendom .
And if you examine this love your enemy , love judas
YOU GONNA find its not at all compatible to what JESUS meant when he said LOVE your enemies .
BECAUSE the love i see them giving out to these unrepentant , KEY WORD , unrepentant
IS NOT LOVE . for love had corrected the sin and error .
ITS HATE . they hate their enemies . YE shall not hate your neighbor in your heart you shall in any way Rebuke him
and NOT ALLOW SIN upon him .
BUT they not only ALLOW sin upon them , THEY EVEN HONOR their sins . NOW WHERE IS THE LOVE OF GOD IN ALL of that .
Sounds like something satan would say . But marvel not . He can surely quoate any scripture
SO BELIEVE ME , HE can say GOD IS LOVE but the love he presents leads all TO REBELLION AGAINST GOD and HIS CHRIST
and the saints who actually hold a bible and try and correct this people .

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@amigo de christo

VictoryinJesus said:

Curious what Matthew 16:22-23 means to you?
And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, "Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you." [23] But he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man."

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Jesus rebuked Peter for at that moment he was Satans mouthpiece. Peter was not called the son of perdition, nor was He condemned. Once again Gods Inspired Infallible Word makes it clear Judas is in hell.

a massive problem has arisen and has led to the ultimate lie .
Due to judge not correct not seeker friendly
it seems the churches sure are very kind and friendly to the unrepentant
but man if a repentant sheep shows up with a bible to correct , GOOD NIGHT all hell breaks loose
as they just cannot call that one hater enough . Anyone else noticed this pattern .
Many are quick to so called love the unrepentant
And why did i say so call love them . cause its hate . Ye shall not hate your neighbor in your heart
you shall in any way correct them and not allow SIN upon them .
But not only do they allow sin upon them , in time they began to accept it and call it good .
Till now even UNBELIEF is being praised .
But boy are fast and not so tolerate , not so loving towards those with a bible in their hand , nor towards those words of truth at all .
Something has went dead wrong . IT seems many love a lie and hate truth . not a good pair of shoes to be in
on THE DAY of the LORD either .

Ronald Nolette said:

Jesus rebuked Peter for at that moment he was Satans mouthpiece. Peter was not called the son of perdition, nor was He condemned. Once again Gods Inspired Infallible Word makes it clear Judas is in hell.

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This generation would have hugged judas and crucified CHRIST . and that aint an overexaggeration either .
It will soon lead to the unifed mind and heart of the peoples to come against the saints who conformed not
to their image of What they believed was GOD and was LOVE . cause it aint GOD at all .