The Wrath of God - How is it love?

Let me take that post apart a bit, since it is all over the place….clarity is important because when things are run together like this the truth can be lost.

Hey You! said:

Genesis 1:1 KJV; In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

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“The beginning”….a very good place to start (apologies to Julie Andrews) So what is this the “beginning” of?
Material Creation, but not of creation itself, since God and his master workman had an audience.

Job 38:4-7….ESV…God asked Job….
”Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements—surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”

“All the sons of God shouted for joy” at seeing material creation take shape. So how long were these sons of God in existence before “God created the heavens and the earth”? The Bible doesn’t say, but the one “through” whom creation came was there….at the beginning of all creation.
It is said of him…..
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.” (Col 1:15-16 ESV)

This is called agency….God working through a second party.

John 1:2 also confirms this….
“All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.”

God was at first alone, perfectly self contained, without needing anything or anyone. But at some point in his eternal existence, he decided to become a Father, to share life and love with other intelligent beings……and all the things God was, would be magnified in his sharing of life with “sons”….myriads of them.

One son alone was his “firstborn” as Paul states in Colossians 1 above. So creation began with his “firstborn” son who has been “with” his Father from “the beginning”. He is “only begotten” because his Father produced him as it says in Prov 8:22-23, 30-31…

“The Lord created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago. From eternity I have been fashioned, from the beginning, from before the world existed. . . . . .then I was beside him as a master craftsman, and I was his delight day by day, rejoicing before him at all times, rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth,and delighting in its people.” (NET)

The son was then “the beginning of his works”..…”fashioned before the world existed.”
“The beginning of creation” (Rev 3:14)

Hey You! said:

Through Faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

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Gobbledegook. What is that even supposed to mean?

Hey You! said:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Click to expand...

Read in Greek, those words do not say what has been translated into English.
If the divine name had still been in use, it would have read…
”In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with YAHWEH , and the Word was divine.

Hey You! said:

And God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness”. So God created Man in his own image, in the image of God created him; male and female created he them. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the Garden thou may freely eat; but of the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eat thereof thou shalt surely die.

Click to expand...

And how many people believe that that this is what really happened ? That Adam and his wife ate from the TKGE and as a result, they actually died?
Belief in an immortal soul replaced belief in what God told Adam’s descendants….that the only way to live again is by resurrection? That is a return or restoration of life…not a continuation of it immediately after death, to depart to either heaven or hell? No such scenario exists in Scripture.

“Hell” is mankind’s common grave, and all the dead are resurrected from the same place, (John 5:28-29) because all the dead are unconscious, unaware of anything that goes on after they die. (Eccl 9:5, 10)

Hey You! said:

When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, a tree to be desired to make them wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also to her husband with her; and he ate it. At once they saw what they had done, and they realized they were naked. Then they sewed fig leaves together to cover themselves. ~ For the wages of Sin is Death…

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Yes, the sin of disobedience carried the death penalty…..there was no other…no heaven of bliss or hell of torment….that idea came from Greek paganism. It is believed by all false religions.

Hey You! said:

Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him and he began to teach them. He said: "You’ve heard the Commandment that says, 'You must not commit adultery.' but I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Click to expand...

Jesus went beyond the sin, to what motivates it in the first place.…this gave his audience clear indication that the steps leading to sin, when recognized, could be averted. This same principle applied to all sin…..recognizing the steps that lead to the action can help the sinners to avoid committing it. (James 1:13-15) Wonderful advice!

Hey You! said:

The wages of Sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal Life! ~ For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting Life.

Click to expand...

Again meshing scripture….but yes, God loved the world of humanity so much that he sent his son to die for us….his “firstborn”…..the only one he could entrust with this difficult mission. And, only those who exercise faith in his sacrifice will benefit from it. Those who fail to put faith in the ransom sacrifice of God’s son will “perish” (apollymi) which means….

“to destroy

1. to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin”

That means that they will no longer exist.…they have lost their right to life.

Hey You! said:

The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory;

Click to expand...

Finish the quote….
”And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.“

He was a glorious spirit before his human birth…the unique Son of the Father because he alone is the first and only direct creation of his Father. The rest of creation came through the Son.

And John stated just a few verses later……
“No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”

“No one has seen God at any time”?…….how many people saw Jesus?……and God cannot be “begotten”….so how are we to understand this difficult verse? It’s only difficult for trinitarians.

Hey You! said:

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. For by Grace you are Saved through Faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not by Works so that no one can boast.

Click to expand...

Yet “faith without works is dead”…..faith and works are both necessary. (James 2:18) Does the Bible contradict itself? Or is human misinterpretation the problem?

Scripture alone cannot be understood without explanation…..something Jesus and his apostles did regularly. (Luke 24:27; Acts 17:2-3)

Aunty Jane said:

Let me take that post apart a bit, since it is all over the place….clarity is important because when things are run together like this the truth can be lost.


“The beginning”….a very good place to start (apologies to Julie Andrews) So what is this the “beginning” of?
Material Creation, but not of creation itself, since God and his master workman had an audience.

Job 38:4-7….ESV…God asked Job….
”Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements—surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”

“All the sons of God shouted for joy” at seeing material creation take shape. So how long were these sons of God in existence before “God created the heavens and the earth”? The Bible doesn’t say, but the one “through” whom creation came was there….at the beginning of all creation.
It is said of him…..
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.” (Col 1:15-16 ESV)

This is called agency….God working through a second party.

John 1:2 also confirms this….
“All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.”

God was at first alone, perfectly self contained, without needing anything or anyone. But at some point in his eternal existence, he decided to become a Father, to share life and love with other intelligent beings……and all the things God was, would be magnified in his sharing of life with “sons”….myriads of them.

One son alone was his “firstborn” as Paul states in Colossians 1 above. So creation began with his “firstborn” son who has been “with” his Father from “the beginning”. He is “only begotten” because his Father produced him as it says in Prov 8:22-23, 30-31…

“The Lord created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago. From eternity I have been fashioned, from the beginning, from before the world existed. . . . . .then I was beside him as a master craftsman, and I was his delight day by day, rejoicing before him at all times, rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth,and delighting in its people.” (NET)

The son was then “the beginning of his works”..…”fashioned before the world existed.”
“The beginning of creation” (Rev 3:14)


Gobbledegook. What is that even supposed to mean?

Read in Greek, those words do not say what has been translated into English.
If the divine name had still been in use, it would have read…
”In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with YAHWEH , and the Word was divine.

And how many people believe that that this is what really happened ? That Adam and his wife ate from the TKGE and as a result, they actually died?
Belief in an immortal soul replaced belief in what God told Adam’s descendants….that the only way to live again is by resurrection? That is a return or restoration of life…not a continuation of it immediately after death, to depart to either heaven or hell? No such scenario exists in Scripture.

“Hell” is mankind’s common grave, and all the dead are resurrected from the same place, (John 5:28-29) because all the dead are unconscious, unaware of anything that goes on after they die. (Eccl 9:5, 10)

Yes, the sin of disobedience carried the death penalty…..there was no other…no heaven of bliss or hell of torment….that idea came from Greek paganism. It is believed by all false religions.

Jesus went beyond the sin, to what motivates it in the first place.…this gave his audience clear indication that the steps leading to sin, when recognized, could be averted. This same principle applied to all sin…..recognizing the steps that lead to the action can help the sinners to avoid committing it. (James 1:13-15) Wonderful advice!

Again meshing scripture….but yes, God loved the world of humanity so much that he sent his son to die for us….his “firstborn”…..the only one he could entrust with this difficult mission. And, only those who exercise faith in his sacrifice will benefit from it. Those who fail to put faith in the ransom sacrifice of God’s son will “perish” (apollymi) which means….

“to destroy

1. to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin”

That means that they will no longer exist.…they have lost their right to life.

Finish the quote….
”And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.“

He was a glorious spirit before his human birth…the unique Son of the Father because he alone is the first and only direct creation of his Father. The rest of creation came through the Son.

And John stated just a few verses later……
“No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”

“No one has seen God at any time”?…….how many people saw Jesus?……and God cannot be “begotten”….so how are we to understand this difficult verse? It’s only difficult for trinitarians.


Yet “faith without works is dead”…..faith and works are both necessary. (James 2:18) Does the Bible contradict itself? Or is human misinterpretation the problem?

Scripture alone cannot be understood without explanation…..something Jesus and his apostles did regularly. (Luke 24:27; Acts 17:2-3)

Click to expand...

not another thesis!

Aunty Jane said:

Let me take that post apart a bit, since it is all over the place….clarity is important because when things are run together like this the truth can be lost.


“The beginning”….a very good place to start (apologies to Julie Andrews) So what is this the “beginning” of?
Material Creation, but not of creation itself, since God and his master workman had an audience.

Job 38:4-7….ESV…God asked Job….
”Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements—surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”

“All the sons of God shouted for joy” at seeing material creation take shape. So how long were these sons of God in existence before “God created the heavens and the earth”? The Bible doesn’t say, but the one “through” whom creation came was there….at the beginning of all creation.
It is said of him…..
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.” (Col 1:15-16 ESV)

This is called agency….God working through a second party.

John 1:2 also confirms this….
“All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.”

God was at first alone, perfectly self contained, without needing anything or anyone. But at some point in his eternal existence, he decided to become a Father, to share life and love with other intelligent beings……and all the things God was, would be magnified in his sharing of life with “sons”….myriads of them.

One son alone was his “firstborn” as Paul states in Colossians 1 above. So creation began with his “firstborn” son who has been “with” his Father from “the beginning”. He is “only begotten” because his Father produced him as it says in Prov 8:22-23, 30-31…

“The Lord created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago. From eternity I have been fashioned, from the beginning, from before the world existed. . . . . .then I was beside him as a master craftsman, and I was his delight day by day, rejoicing before him at all times, rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth,and delighting in its people.” (NET)

The son was then “the beginning of his works”..…”fashioned before the world existed.”
“The beginning of creation” (Rev 3:14)


Gobbledegook. What is that even supposed to mean?

Read in Greek, those words do not say what has been translated into English.
If the divine name had still been in use, it would have read…
”In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with YAHWEH , and the Word was divine.

And how many people believe that that this is what really happened ? That Adam and his wife ate from the TKGE and as a result, they actually died?
Belief in an immortal soul replaced belief in what God told Adam’s descendants….that the only way to live again is by resurrection? That is a return or restoration of life…not a continuation of it immediately after death, to depart to either heaven or hell? No such scenario exists in Scripture.

“Hell” is mankind’s common grave, and all the dead are resurrected from the same place, (John 5:28-29) because all the dead are unconscious, unaware of anything that goes on after they die. (Eccl 9:5, 10)

Yes, the sin of disobedience carried the death penalty…..there was no other…no heaven of bliss or hell of torment….that idea came from Greek paganism. It is believed by all false religions.

Jesus went beyond the sin, to what motivates it in the first place.…this gave his audience clear indication that the steps leading to sin, when recognized, could be averted. This same principle applied to all sin…..recognizing the steps that lead to the action can help the sinners to avoid committing it. (James 1:13-15) Wonderful advice!

Again meshing scripture….but yes, God loved the world of humanity so much that he sent his son to die for us….his “firstborn”…..the only one he could entrust with this difficult mission. And, only those who exercise faith in his sacrifice will benefit from it. Those who fail to put faith in the ransom sacrifice of God’s son will “perish” (apollymi) which means….

“to destroy

1. to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin”

That means that they will no longer exist.…they have lost their right to life.

Finish the quote….
”And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.“

He was a glorious spirit before his human birth…the unique Son of the Father because he alone is the first and only direct creation of his Father. The rest of creation came through the Son.

And John stated just a few verses later……
“No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”

“No one has seen God at any time”?…….how many people saw Jesus?……and God cannot be “begotten”….so how are we to understand this difficult verse? It’s only difficult for trinitarians.


Yet “faith without works is dead”…..faith and works are both necessary. (James 2:18) Does the Bible contradict itself? Or is human misinterpretation the problem?

Scripture alone cannot be understood without explanation…..something Jesus and his apostles did regularly. (Luke 24:27; Acts 17:2-3)

Click to expand...

The Royal Law ~ by ReverendRV * November 8

James 2:8 KJV; If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well.

There was a time when Jesus commissioned several disciples and he was instructing them in the way of his ministry. During this time an Expert spoke up and asked Jesus how to inherit Eternal Life, this is what was said; “Behold, a Lawyer stood up to put Jesus to the test. ‘Teacher, what shall I do to inherit Eternal Life?’ Jesus said, ‘What is written in the Law? How does it say?’ The Lawyer answered, ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your Heart and with all your Soul and with all your Strength and with all your Mind, and your neighbor as yourself.’ Jesus said ‘You have answered correctly; do it, and you will live.’ The lawyer desired to justify himself, ‘Who is my neighbor?"’ ~ Saint James taught about Loving your Neighbor, about not showing partiality; which the Expert had in spades! ~ How could you ever keep this Royal Law with all your Heart?

Jesus answered the Lawyer’s question with an example of a foreigner who helped an injured man on a road. A Priest and a Levite wouldn’t stop to help the man. The Lawyer knew that if this ever occurred, Jesus would be right; because those two wouldn’t touch anything unclean. Have you ever helped someone when they were in dire straits? Most people can answer Yes to this; but none can say that they kept the Law of God by doing this! You object, “Saint Paul said Loving your Neighbor as yourself fulfills the Law!” Yes he did; but only a Royal Prince from Heaven can fulfill this Royal Law of God. A Pauper only has a Commoners Law that was given to Sinners; the Ten Commandments. These ten Laws were given to show us that we are guilty as Sin, and that we’re outlaws who will be locked away in a devil’s Hell for all Eternity. ~ The Baptist Theologian John Gill said this of the Royal Law; ‘Which is the Law of love to Man, without distinction of rich and poor, high and low, bond and free; and is so called, because it’s the Law of the King of kings, it is the Law of Christ, who is King of Saints; and because it is a principal Law, the chief of Laws; as Love to God is the sum of the first and great commandment in the Law, and may be called the King of Laws; so Love to the Neighbor is the second and next unto it, and may very well bear the name of the Queen of Laws, and has Royalty in it; and indeed this last is said to be the fulfilling of the Law, and it is also submitted to, and obeyed by such who are made kings and priests to God; and to be done in a Royal manner, with a Princely Spirit, Willingly, and with all readiness:’

What we need is to be made Kings and Priests of God in order to be able to fulfill the Queen of Laws and live! There’s only one way to receive this Coronation and it’s by Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ the King of Kings; without Works lest we boast. His shed blood pays our Sin debt for us, but his Resurrection from the dead grants us our Royal title. Repent from Sin, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God; and you will be Forgiven. Gain your commission from him and you’ll be Saved from your Sins; you will be spiritually Born Again with a Prince’s birthright! Jesus will grant it that you rule and reign with him in his Kingdom forever in Eternity. You’re now able to keep the Royal Law of God since you’re under the jurisdiction of Heaven as a citizen who can exercise your new found rights. ~ Give up your life as a dying Pauper and exchange it for the Life of an everlasting Prince; an Heir of the one true King. Read the Bible and find your Kingdom Agenda…

Revelations 1:6 KJV; To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.