Jeremiah 32:27

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Madad21

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Dec 28, 2013
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lukethreesix said:
I'm not back to my Bible yet so I'll get to those verses later...but I want to say that 1Tim's "especially" does not mean exclusively. Be lievers are especially saved. Kinda like Superman loves Lois Lane right? When a building is about to fall on everybody he especially saves Lois Lane, but will ultimately save everyone else. Lois will be saved first (blessed are those in the first resurrection) but he will not only save her. She, however, will enjoy a special, intimate relationship with him, returning with him to his ice castle and sharing all his knowledge and secrets with her......I'm out of time again, but get back later. Hopefully this Hollywood example can help? (I know, Hollywood movies make bad theology, just trying to get you to see the picture) I mean really, is superman a better savior than Jesus? I think not!
Yeah I know exactly what you were trying to say without super man (but thanks I think supermans better than batman), and Im sorry but I dont understand how you can take a scripture like this and put it in to that kind of context, weighed up especially with what the rest of what the Bible teaches.

It really makes no logical sense at all.
Earlier I even tried to back up your claim, by looking at those chapters you listed to see where you might be getting this idea, but Im sorry its just not there and its not backed up anywhere else.

I honestly think your either only seeing what you want to see or someone has done you a real mischief by endorsing it too you.
This theology can be easliy disproved in one verse, littlelone hundreds the Bible provides.

Im not being mean, I am honestly surprised I am even having this conversation.

But on he other hand I can see why maybe people dont want to believe in eternal punishment. I too have loved ones I worry about who dont know Christ and I pray for them often. But the Bible teaches us plainly that not all will be saved, there's really no getting around it except by changing the Bible or tearing out pages.
 

Suhar

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[SIZE=medium]Just because God desires for everybody to be saved He is not going to force everybody to be saved. He gave you a free will for a reason, so that you can choose to be saved or not. God is not cruel god, He is not going to force anybody who does not want to live in His presence for all eternity to suffer of His presence for all eternity. [/SIZE]
 

lukethreesix

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Jan 11, 2014
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You all get so hung up on this free will thing? If Satan has the power to deceive people and by their own free will choose to follow him, then God surely has the power to attract people by His love to follow Him by their own free will. Don't worry, God won't make anyone a "robot". He will however continue to love them, guide them, teach them, correct them, even "hand them over to the tormentors UNTIL they have paid the last penny'.
But anyway, Here are some verses I take as showing God as the Savior of all (not a potential savior of some).
Eze 18:4
Jer 32:27
Joel 2:28
Lk 3:6
Mal 2:10
Num 27:16
Ecc 12:7
Phil 1:6, 2:9-11, 3:21
Is 25:7-9, 45:21-25, 49:15-16
1 Tim 2:3-4, 4:10
Rev 1:17-18, 5:13, 15:4, 20:13, 21:5, 22:1-17
Rom 5:15-21, 9:16
1 Cor 13:8, 15:19-28
Eph 1:10, 2:7, 4:4-10, 13, 25
Col 1:20
Titus 2:11, 3:4
1 Pet 3:19-20, 4:6
2 Pet 3:9
Luke 10, 12, 15
Matt 5:44-48
Mark 9:49
John 1:7-9, 29, 3:17, 4:42, 6:51, 12:32, 47, 17:2-4
Acts 3:21, 10:34
Psalms 1:6, 25:8, 94:10, 22:27-29, 107, 119:71, 64:7-9, 65:2-3, 139:8, 136, 106:48, 10:15, 59:10-13

My favorite though is Genesis 1:31, "Behold! Very good!" God at the end of His creating He declares it very good. And then the next chapter begins with Him resting in eternity (no evening and morning). My question is: is God finished creating? Nope! Not yet...Jesus said in john 5:17, "My Father is STILL working...". God is still creating to this day, new hearts, new souls, and one day a new heaven and new earth! Only then will He truely be able to rest when all things are subdue to him (Phil 3:21) and He will be all in all (1 Cor 15:19-28). God is the creator (the cause) of everything (Is 45:7). In Exodus 21: 33-34, 22:5-6, God tells us that if one is the cause of something that leads to the destruction of something else, then he must "make good" (restitution). Well, in the garden God surely dug a pit and did not cover it up, in fact He even hired a tempter to lure us in. All of us have fallen into that pit and are all dead ox's until God purchases (buys back) all that was lost. And this is why Jesus was sent, to "save that which was lost". All things have been handed over to Christ, and Jesus said "all that God has given me I will lose none." The will of God is for all to be saved, Jesus always does the will of the God. Jesus has and will accomplish His mission: Save the World!
the fact is: if the will of God is for everyone to be saved, but Jesus doesn't save everyone, then He failed to do the will of God. But this can't be true, because Jesus always accomplishes the will of God. I'm afraid there will be a lot of "older brothers" (Luke 15) in heaven when God accepts all those who waisted their lives in sin. They will stand outside pouting and the father will plead with them, "come in, its is good we celebrate, once they were lost but now are found. Why are you upset? All I have is yours"
 

Madad21

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Dec 28, 2013
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Cool, so what about this scripture then?

Revelation 20:13-15
New International Version (NIV)


[SIZE=.75em]13 [/SIZE]The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.


And this one?

Matthew 25:44-46
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

Is Jesus telling fibs?




Mark 3:28-29
Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter,[SIZE=.75em] but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.[/SIZE]
 

lukethreesix

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Jan 11, 2014
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Just these three scriptures are holding you back? Meditate on those verses I posted above...if you don't want to believe that God will restore the universe to perfection, then you never will. I can't move your spirit, only God can do that. If it comforts you to think of everlasting torture than knowing other wise will not.
I am not a universalist, most of them don't believe in sin, punishment, or hell. I believe sin is deadly, punishment is correctional, and hell us real, just not eternal. Study the Greek word for eternal, it might surprise you.

As for those three scriptures...
Rev 20, ain't the end of the book.
Matt 25:46 (EBR), "and these will go into age-abiding correction, but the righteous into life age-abiding."
Mark 3:29, I believe only believers can "speak against" the Holy Spirit. And if they do its an age-abiding sin, they will not be forgiven in the next age (the 1,000 year reign with Christ), but will have to wait for the second resurrection (see Luke 12 and Rev 20).
 

Madad21

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Dec 28, 2013
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lukethreesix said:
Just these three scriptures are holding you back?
Are you kidding!!
Its just three that I chose, you want more, because I can find a whole Bible full if you really want.
and the scriptures you are using do not confirm your beliefs at all.

No but we will just add age-abiding to everything Jesus says and that will make the nasty go away, right?

Rev 20 is not at the very end, so that must negate that entire scripture, you may as well rip it out of the Bible aye.

Is me not believing your false religion a way of you justifying to yourself that you must be right? That way you can stay safe from anyone trying to point out the painfully obvious to you like a protective shield of sorts, this way you can stay fooled as long as you like.

Tell me how do you dismiss all that Jesus taught us?

Jesus warns us repeatedly about Hell and how not to go there, how do you Just ignore him?

Can you at least answer that question?
 

lukethreesix

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Jan 11, 2014
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Jesus talked a lot about "hell" and the punishment that is to come in the next age. And there is, and not only to those wicked non-christians, but "judgement comes to the house of God first" (I believe you will find that in the letters of Peter). What you are not ggrasping is that there are age's' to come, not only one. Jesus spoke (mostly) about the age to come (millennium), also, Gods judgement is ALWAYS correctional, God does not just "endlessly" torture for the sake of torture? Jesus came to show us who the Fatherwas, Jesus forgave his enemies. Jesus is nonviolent! Burning people alive is very violent. It is not in Gods character, people who think God tortures people, do NOT know God. Fire in the Bible is a refining process, its outcome is always good, God is found in the fire in Exodus, Jesus baptizes with fire, and the Holy Spirit is a flame of fire.
 

Madad21

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Dec 28, 2013
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lukethreesix said:
Jesus talked a lot about "hell" and the punishment that is to come in the next age. And there is, and not only to those wicked non-christians, but "judgement comes to the house of God first" (I believe you will find that in the letters of Peter). What you are not ggrasping is that there are age's' to come, not only one. Jesus spoke (mostly) about the age to come (millennium), also, Gods judgement is ALWAYS correctional, God does not just "endlessly" torture for the sake of torture? Jesus came to show us who the Fatherwas, Jesus forgave his enemies. Jesus is nonviolent! Burning people alive is very violent. It is not in Gods character, people who think God tortures people, do NOT know God. Fire in the Bible is a refining process, its outcome is always good, God is found in the fire in Exodus, Jesus baptizes with fire, and the Holy Spirit is a flame of fire.
Hi Lukethreesix

I need to apologize for having a crack at you this morning (False religion etc), I get pretty tired by the end of shift and I was a little fired up I dont usually carry on like a headless chook.

Im sorry I can not abide to your theology, the Bible just doesnt support it.
So we will have to agree to disagree.

I hope you have a good weekend
God bless :)
 

lukethreesix

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Jan 11, 2014
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No worries, I get pretty fired up too sometimes. Look up what's called "ultimate reconciliation" or "universal restoration" or even "christian universalism", these all are very different from the "unitarian" type "anything goes" theology where "all paths lead to the same place."
Jesus is the only way, and the way is narrow. However, God will create all things new and wipe all tears away. This doesn't mean everyone enjoys the same rewards, but like Paul says in 1 Cor 15, as the lights in the heavens all have different glories, so will people. Some will shine as bright as the sun, while others will shine like Pluto...