ScottA
Well-Known Member
Are you so blind?
Matthew 24:30 does NOT say on earth or in this world--but "in heaven."
So..I will ask you--Do you even believe what is written?
Only one rapture of all the saints, and only one second coming of Christ
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Matthew 24:30 does NOT say on earth or in this world--but "in heaven."
So..I will ask you--Do you even believe what is written?
Truth7t7
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Your Claim Is "False"
The scripture clearly states that literal eyes on this earth will witness the Lord's future return, simple, clear, easy to understand
Scott your complete theology is mystical gobbly goop not found in scripture
Walking like Einstein "Hardly"
Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
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Well, that is where He comes from where He is seated at the right hand of the Father in Heaven.
He will come again a second time...., from heaven to earth as He did the first time.
The coming again a second time is a glorious bodily return where every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him
It is not any kind of spiritual invisible coming, He comes in His glory, and in His Father's glory and in the glory of the angels.
Bible Gateway passage: Acts 3 - New King James Version
A Lame Man Healed - Now Peter and John went up together to the temple at the hour of prayer, the ninth hour. And a certain man lame from his mother’s womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms from those who entered the temple; who...
20 and that He may send [c]Jesus Christ, who was [d]preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since [e]the world began.
22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ 24 Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also [f]foretold these days. 25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”
ScottA
Well-Known Member
So then it is confirmed, it is written "in heaven", and you reject it.
So let it be bound and written. Amen.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
You misunderstand and believe things only taught by men who also lack understanding. The scriptures you quote do not say all that you said.Well, that is where He comes from where He is seated at the right hand of the Father in Heaven.
He will come again a second time...., from heaven to earth as He did the first time.
The coming again a second time is a glorious bodily return where every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him
It is not any kind of spiritual invisible coming, He comes in His glory, and in His Father's glory and in the glory of the angels.
17 “Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers. 18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,Bible Gateway passage: Acts 3 - New King James Version
A Lame Man Healed - Now Peter and John went up together to the temple at the hour of prayer, the ninth hour. And a certain man lame from his mother’s womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms from those who entered the temple; who...www.biblegateway.com
20 and that He may send [c]Jesus Christ, who was [d]preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since [e]the world began.
22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ 24 Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also [f]foretold these days. 25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”
The scriptures say Jesus comes again in the glory of the Father (spirit) which is the Kingdom of God which comes without observation, not in a glorified physical body, nor technically fully to this world, but only to raise us up, that where He is we might be also..where flesh and blood cannot inherit.
Yes, I have heard that explanation & it makes sense as does Matt 27:52 to support an alternate alternate view.
Matt 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
JimKnox
Active Member
I want to know where you get the Scriptural authority to claim that every resurrection in Scripture is announced by and preceded by a trumpet. If you can not, then your entire polemic falls apart.
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All resurrections before the last resurrection of the saved dead were resurrections back to mortality and back to the old body. The final resurrection is not that way, but to immortality and a new body not the old body. No one climbs out of an Earthly, literal grave. Paul explained it:
2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
The new body is in heaven! Here Paul uses an analogy of a building, house and tabernacle to represent a physical body. One of these is an "earthly house" meaning the mortal flesh body we are born into and then a heavenly house which is in heaven that represents the new immortal body. This speaks of when a saved human's body dies (dissolved) that there is another body in heaven waiting for them and the time of Resurrection. There is nothing in the passage about the person's spirit returning to their dissolved/dead body and it being brought back to life. Paul speaks of a different body that already exists in heaven.
Paul knew he wasn't returning to his old body.
He speaks of the mortal body being dissolved and a new body that is waiting in heaven. Clearly that is not bringing the dissolved body back to life and changing it which would eliminate the need for the new body in heaven that he mentions.
2Co 5:3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
2Co 5:4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
Paul writes that he desires to be clothed with the house from Heaven and says it is eternal in Heaven. That's the resurrection body and it is from heaven not from the Earth nor from an Earthly grave.
Coming down from Heaven with Christ into the clouds is currently winning the discussion
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Here's a little more on the topic:
1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
Again, something awaits us in heaven. Is it not the new glorified body given in a heavenly resurrection?
If scripture interprets scripture then I submit:
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Though Jesus was a carpenter's son, I do not believe he is literally speaking of building a house in heaven for us but this being a reference to what 2 Corinthians 5:1 touches upon, a new body in heaven.
1 Thess 4:17, Eph 2:6, 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, 1 Cor 15:42-44.
The dead in Christ & the ones alive (in Christ) receiving glorified bodies to reside in Heavenly places c/- trusting only the death, burial, resurrection of Christ - why would anyone want to pass that up ?
Truth7t7
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It is written and I presented you the very words of God below, the words are in my hands and also millions of other believers hands
The scripture clearly states that literal eyes on this earth will witness the Lord's future return, simple, clear, easy to understand
Scott your complete theology is mystical gobbly goop not found in scripture
Conclusion: You apparently reject the future literal, visible, Return of Jesus Christ in the heavens as the words of God clearly teache below
Jesus Is The Lord
Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
That is Not the resurrection of the Last Day
Trying to play the classic semantic card: taking the phrase “reserved in heaven for you” from 1 Peter 1:4 and twisting it to mean that our resurrected bodies are currently sitting up in a celestial closet waiting to be put on, or that the resurrection itself happens invisibly in heaven rather than on the Last Day.
That completely misses what the text is actually saying. Here is why it falls flat:
1. "Reserved in Heaven" Means Secure, Not Stored Like a Suitcase
- The Context: When Peter says the inheritance is "reserved in heaven for you," he is talking about the guarantee and security of what God has promised, not the physical staging ground of a secret, pre-resurrection body swap.
- The Timeline Collision: Look right back at the verse I posted earlier from the exact same passage (1 Peter 1:5): “who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.” The inheritance is guarded in heaven, but the salvation and the manifestation of that glory happen at the revelation of Jesus Christ—which is the final, visible Day of the Lord, not a hidden event.
2. Twisting John 14:2 ("Many Mansions")
- His Logic: Trying to use Jesus saying "In My Father's house are many mansions" to mean a heavenly body waiting in the sky.
- The Flaw: Jesus is speaking of His Father's house as a place of eternal dwelling and fellowship with God, comforting the disciples about His departure. Twisting it into a literal manufacturing plant for ethereal body-parts is reading a completely foreign concept into the text.
3. Conflating the Place of Security with the Place of Revelation
- Just because our hope and reward are secured by God in heaven (where Christ sits at the right hand) doesn't mean the resurrection event itself takes place secretly in the clouds away from earth. Colossians 3:4 makes the timing and location crystal clear: “When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.” It happens when He is revealed to the world.
also what does paul teach about when believers receive their glorified bodies!!
When believers receive their glorified bodies, Paul is remarkably direct and explicitly links it to a single, unmistakable timeline: the Last Day, at the final trumpet, concurrent with the visible return of Christ.
Here is what Paul teaches across his epistles, which completely shuts down the idea that believers are already walking around with glorified bodies stored in heaven or getting them in a secret pre-trib phase:
4. 1 Corinthians 15:51–52 (The "Last Trumpet" Transformation)
- The Timing: Paul writes, "Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
- Why it matters: Paul specifically anchors this transformation to the last trumpet. There are no subsequent trumpets for believers after this one. It is a single, definitive event where both the dead are raised and the living are transformed simultaneously.
5. Philippians 3:20–21 (The Transformation at Christ’s Descent)
- The Timing: "For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body..."
- Why it matters: Our glorified bodies aren't currently worn or waiting up in heaven; rather, our citizenship is there, and we wait for the Savior to come from heaven to transform our earthly bodies right here when He arrives.
6. 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17 (The Sequence of the Gathering)
- The Timing: "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air..."
- Why it matters: Paul places the resurrection of the dead and the catching-up of the living at the exact moment of Christ's literal, noisy, audible descent from heaven ("with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God"). It is loud, public, and unmistakable—the exact opposite of a quiet, secret, pre-trib extraction.
And what did Christ teach about our rising on the LAST DAY?
Jesus was entirely explicit about the timing of the resurrection, repeatedly anchoring it to a specific, unmistakable point in time: "the last day."
He didn't scatter believers' resurrection across multiple secret phases or pre-tribulation intervals; instead, He drove the point home four separate times in the Gospel of John:
7. The Repeated Promise of the "Last Day" (John 6)
- John 6:39: "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day."
- John 6:40: "And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
- John 6:44: "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day."
- John 6:54: "Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
8. Martha Knew the Timeline (John 11)
When Jesus comforted Martha about her brother Lazarus dying, He told her, "Your brother will rise again." Martha didn't look for a secret, multi-stage pre-trib event; she replied with the orthodox Jewish understanding of the timeline:- "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day" (John 11:24). Jesus didn't correct her and say, "Actually, Martha, that happens seven years earlier in secret." Instead, He affirmed His own identity as the resurrection and the life.
9. The Word of Judgment (John 12:48)
Jesus also tied accountability directly to this endpoint:- "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day."
And what does Paul teach about when our earthly tent is destroyed, and a heavenly body, but that is not that glorified body where Paul says we shall bear the image of the heavenly man?
- Paul talks about the "earthly tent" in 2 Corinthians 5:1–4, people trying to push a pre-resurrection body model often misinterpret it as a claim that we instantly receive our fully realized, glorified bodies the microsecond we draw our last breath.
However, Paul is drawing a contrast between our temporary, fragile mortal existence and our eternal dwelling, and he explicitly clarifies that even then, we are clothed, not found naked, but waiting for our ultimate transformation.
Here is what Paul actually teaches about the "earthly tent" versus the glorified body where we bear the image of the heavenly man:
1. The "Earthly Tent" vs. the Eternal Building (2 Corinthians 5:1–4)
- The Text: "For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked."
- What it means: Paul uses the metaphor of a temporary tent (our current mortal body) versus a permanent building. But notice verse 4: "For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life." Paul isn't describing an immediate, full-blown glorification or a pre-packaged body waiting on a shelf in heaven; he is talking about the guaranteed assurance of our eternal state.
2. The Distinction: The "Tent" Phase vs. the "Glorified Image" (1 Corinthians 15)
- To understand what Paul means by bearing the image of the heavenly man, we have to look at how he defines the timing of that bodily change in 1 Corinthians 15:42–49:
- The Perishable vs. the Imperishable: Paul writes, "So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption... It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body."
- Bearing the Image: He explicitly explains when we bear that heavenly image in verses 48–49: "As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man."
3. The Climax is Still the Last Day
When does that transition from the earthly tent to bearing the heavenly image happen? Paul ties it right back to the exact same moment he outlined in 1 Corinthians 15:51–52—at the last trumpet, when the dead are raised incorruptible and the living are changed.
The "heavenly house" or building from God represents the absolute certainty and eternal security of our resurrection body, but Paul never teaches that we obtain our glorified body secretly in heaven years early. The actual putting on of that incorruptible, glorified image of the heavenly Man happens collectively for the body of Christ at His visible return on the Last Day.
The "heavenly house" or building from God represents the absolute certainty and eternal security of our resurrection body, but Paul never teaches that we obtain our glorified body secretly in heaven years early. The actual putting on of that incorruptible, glorified image of the heavenly Man happens collectively for the body of Christ at His visible return on the Last Day.
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Colossians 3
If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory. (as in then having a gloriified body)
1 John 3
1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of [a]God! Therefore the world does not know [b]us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
When Christ is revealed in His glorious second coming, then we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is, but before this glorious second coming, our life is HID with God in Christ!
If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory. (as in then having a gloriified body)
1 John 3
1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of [a]God! Therefore the world does not know [b]us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
When Christ is revealed in His glorious second coming, then we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is, but before this glorious second coming, our life is HID with God in Christ!
1. Colossians 3:3–4 (The Hidden Life Revealed)
- The Present State: Paul says that right now, "your life is hidden with Christ in God" (v. 3). We are spiritually alive, but our glory and ultimate state are currently concealed.
- The Future Manifestation: When does that change? Verse 4 gives the exact moment: "When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory." That appearance isn't a secret, phantom event in the atmosphere; it is His open, visible second coming where we share in His manifested glory.
2. 1 John 3:2 (The Blueprint of Likeness)
- The Present Status: John reminds us, "Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be..." (v. 2). We don't possess the physical reality of our final state right now.
- The Revelation Event: John explicitly ties our physical transformation to Christ's public disclosure: "...but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is."
Truth7t7
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And the scripture clearly teaches how quick it will happen, in a moment yes, and don't forget in the twinkling of and eye, judgement is complete eternity begins
1 Corinthians 15:52KJV
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
People hold tightly to mistaken ideas, Paul calls them strongholds and they will be torn down
People hold onto traditional frameworks and systems so tightly that even when the plain text of Scripture points straight past their assumptions, breaking through those barriers takes time.
As Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 10:4–5
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not [a]carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.
Letting the clear, uncompromised Word of God do that work is all you can do. Only God can change a heart and grant repentance to know the truth.
People hold onto traditional frameworks and systems so tightly that even when the plain text of Scripture points straight past their assumptions, breaking through those barriers takes time.
As Paul writes in 2 Corinthians 10:4–5
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not [a]carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.
Letting the clear, uncompromised Word of God do that work is all you can do. Only God can change a heart and grant repentance to know the truth.
1. The resurrection is not in the PAST, it is still FUTURE!
Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 2 - New King James Version
Be Strong in Grace - You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. You therefore must endure hardship as a good soldier of Jesus Christ...
www.biblegateway.com
Bible Gateway passage: 2 Timothy 2 - New King James Version
Be Strong in Grace - You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. You therefore must endure hardship as a good soldier of Jesus Christ...
14 Remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord not to [d]strive about words to no profit, to the ruin of the hearers. 15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 16 But shun profane and [e]idle babblings, for they will [f]increase to more ungodliness. 17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, 18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of [g]Christ depart from iniquity.”
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, [h]sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
Jim, that doesn't actually address my argument.
I never claimed that every resurrection recorded in Scripture is announced by a trumpet. That is not necessary to establish what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:52.
Paul explicitly connects the resurrection of the dead saints and the transformation of the living saints with a trumpet:
My argument is therefore not:
“Every resurrection in Scripture has a trumpet.”
My argument is:
“The resurrection and transformation Paul is discussing in 1 Corinthians 15:52 occurs at the LAST trumpet.”
So the question for the pre-trib/mid-trib position remains:
Where does Scripture teach another resurrection of Church-age saints after Paul's “last trumpet”?
If you believe there is an earlier resurrection of the Church, followed years later by another resurrection of tribulation saints at Christ's coming, then please show the text that teaches that sequence.
And there is an additional problem for the pre-tribulation position in 2 Thessalonians 2:1–3. Paul explicitly connects:
with
and then says:
Whatever one believes about the precise identity of Paul's “day,” Paul plainly warns the Thessalonians not to be deceived concerning the coming of Christ and our gathering to Him, and he places the revelation of the man of sin before that event.
So I'm not arguing that every resurrection in the Bible requires a trumpet.
I'm asking something much narrower:
Where does Scripture teach a resurrection and gathering of the Church before the event Paul calls the “last trumpet,” and before the revelation of the man of sin which Paul says precedes “our gathering together unto him”?
If the answer is simply that there must be an earlier resurrection because the system requires one, then the question of Scriptural authority has not been answered.
Sorry for your loss .You and I read Revelation very differently.
Nothing is debunked. Sorry for your loss.
There is only the second coming of Christ
No where in scripture does it say different.
But it does say it like this.
Hebrews 9
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.
Die once, then comes judgment
The writer of Hebrews is making a valid comparison, if you can see it....
And what do you suppose is that judgment described in v28?
Jesus tells us here
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 25 - New King James Version
The Parable of the Wise and Foolish Virgins - “Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, but the wise...
The Parable of the Talents
14 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. 15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey. 16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents. 17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also. 18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord’s money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them.
20 “So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, ‘Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.’ 21 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’ 22 He also who had received two talents came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ 23 His lord said to him, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’
24 “Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25 And I was afraid, and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’
26 “But his lord answered and said to him, ‘You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. 27 So you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him, and give it to him who has ten talents.
29 ‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
The Son of Man Will Judge the Nations
31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the [c]holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44 “Then they also will answer [d]Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
The lake of fire is AFTER THE MILL AND OVER 1K YRS AFTER THE RAPTURE.
You did not address a single rapture verse.
Then say I am at a loss.
You actually proved you can not unpack the verses.
IOW, By saying indirectly they don't exist so there is "only one coming"
Ok only one as you say. Let's play it out.
Is it this one?....
Rev 19
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Or this one?
Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped
Or this one?
Mat 24
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
How do you wiggle out of those passages honestly?
Which of those 3 is the one coming????
ANYONE can see they are 3 different appearances, and 3 separate gatherings.
Maybe you can say he comes pre flood, during the flood and after the flood and they are one coming?? ?
Flat out bizarre
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