Stop Believing the "Any Moment" Myth

rebuilder 454 said:

You probably follow the same crazies that tried to smear mother Theresa.

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The 4 main killers of mankind in the history of the planet are
Communism
Socialism
Islam
And abortion.
The democrats support all 4.

ewq1938 said:

Paul said the rapture happens AFTER he is revealed. A lot of the Church falls away in Apostasy at the timeline of the AC being active (he is a false god and they fall away to him), then a lot of the faithful church is murdered, with a small amount alive and remaining when the trib ends/Christ returns and they are raptured.

The rapture is not to make sure the church is safe from the AC and his wicked people in the trib. It's only to gather together the last ones alive to join Christ and his army for the pouring of God's wrath. The beheaded saints, the martyrs that have to wait for vengeance until their fellow brethren are killed as they were, the killings in Rev 11...all point to Christians dying in the trib.

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QUOTE;
"... with a small amount alive and remaining when the trib ends/Christ returns and they are raptured"

Ahem , let's get real with a bible in hand.
Rev13
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

You were saying????
NONE OF YOUR POSTRIBBER WORKBOOKS KNOW THAT PASSAGE IS EVEN IN THE BIBLE.!!!!

Your doctrine is one of MASSIVE OMISSIONS TO HOPE FOR Your trib experience.

Please read the Bible for the first time.
All you left behind die or take the mark.
"I don't care , all I care about is going through the trib"

Ok stay and see what happens.
Tear Rev 13 out if your bible, then, while in massive open air detentions, tell everyone in there, those already raptured are just deception, and your trib experience is just a speed bump, while you wait on the white horse coming, due to arrive in exactly 7 years.

Wow, massive deception.

The crowd to Noah " ha ha ha, that is not a boat, that won't save you. There is no such thing as a flood, a boat, and us not living through it".." we will be raptured AFTER THE FLOOD"
Cue belly laugh...SMH

Yep the days of Noah are here.
Jesus prophesied it vividly.

Sel@h said:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

In 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Paul warns Christians not to be misled, explaining that the day of Christ's return will not occur until there is first a great falling away and the "man of sin" is revealed. While the teaching of Jesus returning to gather His people is easy to understand, the distinct warning to "let no man deceive you" is often the most difficult part for people to grasp.

Paul's primary point is a plea for believers not to believe anyone who claims that the day of Christ is imminent or that He could return at any moment. Those who believe this risk being caught unprepared when the true Messiah returns. Remember, there will be a false messiah who will come first. We mustn’t be deceived because if we’re not careful, we’ll end up worshiping the Antichrist. (This is the great apostasy of the end times.)

Do you still find the pre-tribulation rapture theory appealing? If so, you are in a very dangerous position. This warning doesn't come from me; it comes from Paul, who cautions us to be on guard and watching out for the Antichrist. The Antichrist—Satan—will mirror exactly what you expect from Christ, using supernatural powers to deceive people, and he will arrive before the return of our Lord Jesus Christ.

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Plot twist.
Keep "revealed" in mind.

The rapture can happen ANY MOMENT AFTER the ac is REVEALED.

SO let's say he is REVEALED tonight, and the rapture is at midnight.

Your entire argument collapses over a HONEST bible reading.

You, nor any postribber, knows what he is talking about.

IMO:
The rapture will occur some time after the Jewish temple is rebuilt, and the antichrist takes his seat in it, showing that he is God (2Thessalonians 2:4) and persecuting Christian believers.

William Barton said:

IMO:
The rapture will occur some time after the Jewish temple is rebuilt, and the antichrist takes his seat in it, showing that he is God (2Thessalonians 2:4), and begins persecuting Christian believers.

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That would describe a "mid 7 yr trib" rapture.
Which is not scriptural.

At the 7th trump ("last trump" of the seven trumps) Jesus will descend to a cloud and take up believers (1Thessalonians 4:15-17, Romans 14:16). This is the midpoint of the tribulation.

William Barton said:

At the 7th trump ("last trump" of the seven trumps) Jesus will descend to a cloud and take up believers (1Thessalonians 4:15-17, Romans 14:16). This is the midpoint of the tribulation.

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Your setting is way off.
Jesus taught a PRETRIB RAPTURE.

OK, NOW I SEE YOUR NEED TO CHANGE REV 14.
GOT IT.
( I kept wondering " why is he insistent that the Bible is incorrect about rev 14")
SMH.

I it hard to watch you guys get owned , then once shown truth, your pride keeps you in the dark.

rebuilder 454 said:

Your setting is way off.
Jesus taught a PRETRIB RAPTURE.

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Jesus said, "In the world you will have tribulation." (John 16:33).
The rapture removes believers before the *great tribulation* begins.

The temple was a large complex of buildings, fenced areas, etc. The Romans destroyed it when the Jews rebelled in 70 A.D. Jesus said there would not be one stone upon a stone, and sure enough the Romans tore it all down and cleared the area. The Gihone spring is still there, but the buildings are gone, just a field, no sign that anything was ever there at all.

William Barton said:

Jesus said, "In the world you will have tribulation." (John 16:33).
The rapture removes believers before the *great tribulation* begins.

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He DID NOT SAY; "The great tribulation is the exact same thing as the daily tribulation of the believer.

You are assuming it is.
Why?

rebuilder 454 said:

He DID NOT SAY; "The great tribulation is the exact same thing as the daily tribulation of the believer.

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Cold, ice cold.
Hot, steaming hot.
Bad, worse.
Tribulation, great tribulation.
Got it? Get it? Good!

William Barton said:

Cold, ice cold.
Hot, steaming hot.
Bad, worse.
Tribulation, great tribulation.
Got it? Get it? Good!

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Your post said or inferred we all go through trib and so that is the same as the gt.

It is not.

ewq1938 said:

Prophecy that Christian saints would be killed during the Great Tribulation:

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

The Great Tribulation is Satan's wrath which targets Christians:

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath , because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed , which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


The Christian saints killed during Satan's wrathful Great Tribulation:

Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them : and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.


The Christian saints killed during Satan's wrathful Great Tribulation are resurrected:

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God , and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

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None of that is against the pretrib rapture doctrine.
In fact, if you'll take a real close. Look at revelation 13 instead of posting pieces of it, you will see that there is no believer that escapes martyrdom, in the tribulation. They are all arounded it up and killed, so you're posttrib rapture model is way way way off.

William Barton said:

Cold, ice cold.
Hot, steaming hot.
Bad, worse.
Tribulation, great tribulation.
Got it? Get it? Good!

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Your doctrine consists of one assumption after another.
Bible good.
Opinions are a dime a dozen.
Got it?
Good

The Script you post, with the exeption of Revelation 20, would have happened from Baby Jesus' time, then throughout the middle ages, and 2015, to 2025, and now. Actually Rev. 20 too because that was referring to something that happened in hindesight, just prior to the 1000 years, something happening in our time now.

But you're correct to quote Revelation, using the prophetic time periods from there we can pin the times, and the place of the Man of Sin with greater precision, than with the Pauline Epistles. Which can neither prove nor deny a Pre Trib Rapture.

ewq1938 said:

The Great Tribulation is Satan's wrath which targets Christians:

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath , because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed , which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

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This is the first half of the biggest Prophecy in Revelation, it spans three chapters, and has three Prophetic time periods. It begins and ends with Jesus, with Baby Jesus, and with our standing around the throne with the Lamb. It identifies where the "earth" is, a place prepared by God, who helps the Bride of Christ, the "woman", and therefore the same "earth" where the Antichrist has risen from now.

Unlike the other Bible Prophecy types, Apocalyiptic Prophecy has a beginning point in time, and an ending point in time, and follows a chronological order. When that chronology ends, and the subject matter changes, a new Prophecy will usually begin.

Revelation 12 begins with Baby Jesus, and runs through the Dark Ages of Europe. Ask Anna Charboniere during the Waldensians Piedmont Easter:




Also note the two groups of persecuted saints, when the Dragon saw that he couldn't kill the first group, he goes on to make war on the second group, the remnant of Her seed. As he stands on the sand of the sea. Across the pond old boy.

ewq1938 said:

The Christian saints killed during Satan's wrathful Great Tribulation:

Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them : and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

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This would have began from the summer of 2015, to the end of 2022, and continues to now, until Jesus comes to judge. I posted it already here. It's not a nice thing. There's only a small group who never worships the image of the beast who was slain by the sword and yet lives. Like that phrase on the police car: "deeds speak", the voice of their testimony was as the slaughter of the innocents.

Worship, "proskuneo", also means to obey. These helpless little ones were in no position to fight back. Also note the timing of Roe/Wade being overturned as an indicator. That was one of the composite beasts crowning achievements. It would not have ended until it's 42 months were up. One of the abortion methods uses suction to remove the contents of the unborn infants scull, which then collapses into itself, in effect decapitated, then removed from the birth canal.

ewq1938 said:

Prophecy that Christian saints would be killed during the Great Tribulation:

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

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Same as above. It's just marking the time where it's addressed by God, in a poetic way. It signals the soon return of the Lord, the "little season", and His judging of the killers of the two groups of a specific number of martyred saints.

The souls are not really beneath the alter. This is a personification of an inanimate object. Like when the voice Abel's blood cried out to the Lord from the ground. Underneath the alter is a reference to a container beneath the alter of burnt offerings which collected the blood from the sacrifice in the earhtly temple. Which was a copy of the real one in Revelation 6.

When the Rapture happens, I'm pretty sure that we'll find out that a bunch of the tribulation things have just been happening, just the deadly winepress tribulation remains. That's why we need to meet the Lord in the air. When the winepress happens, it's like the old bartender says at closing time, "you might not have to go Home, but you can't stay here.

Peaceful Sabbath.