Stop Believing the "Any Moment" Myth

[ewq1938]

Paul uses apostasia to show a falling away from God to the antichrist/false god. Pretrib claims the falling away is the Pretrib rapture which poses an obviously dangerous theology.

It's a nice try, congratulations, and welcome to the forum, but I don't think you can use this to disprove the pre-tribulation Rapture theory. I still say it's happening now, we don't need a rebuilt temple to find the Man of Sin. And we don't need to go through a time of wrath, the great winepress. Paul's primary point here is not "a plea for believers not to believe anyone who claims that the day of Christ is imminent or that He could return at any moment, the primary point at that time was to tell Ancient Israel in those days that the Day of the Lord had not yet come. I also would not say we "are in a very dangerous position if we believe Pre Trib. Paul wasn't warning Christians at the end of time, he was warning people in the 1st century not to believe "letters" that had been written claiming that the Day of the Lord had come already.

Some during those days thought people were saying it came already, and they missed the boat. Paul was reassuring them not to worry, they won't miss it, the dead in Christ will rise first. We can't use 2 Thessalonians to pin down the detail of the timing for the Rapture in our time. Paul is using broad brush strokes which could be applicable from the 1950's to now. Like the Leave it to Beaver times, to the transvestite Sodomite sex change days we are in now. The falling away happened already, we wait now for the Man of Sin to be revealed. He has been here for many a long year, he just needs to be outed. I like the sharpie marker I get from Daniel and Revelation.

The Falling Away, The Apostasy.

The first time, the only other time the NT used that controversial word was by Luke, a travelling companion of Paul. Luke was talking about falling away from the Torah, the falling away from Moses. Which really was falling away from what God said to do.

Acts 21:21: The Old Time Jews confront Paul with a report that he has been teaching Jewish believers living among the Gentiles to perform an apostasia ("an apostasy" or "forsaking") from Moses—specifically telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to Jewish customs.

Paul was usually drawing from some other place in the Bible. The "man" of sin was Isaiah 14's "man", is this the "man" that made the nations tremble? Paul's "man" was the little horn from Daniel 8 that rises up to the place of HIS Sanctuary. Because that's where he took his seat, in the place of the real Sanctuary, the True Tent, the place of His Sanctuary or Matthew 23's "chair" of Moses. Paul was just drawing from Isaiah 14, Daniel 8 and Matthew 23.

The Chair of Moses

"so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God​

"so that he sets himself up in God's temple,​

"So he will seat himself in the temple of God,​

He will "seat himself".

In Matthew 23, Jesus said:

"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat​

"The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses"​

They have "seated themselves".

Paul was an Old Time Jew Pharisee before Jesus knocked him down and blinded him on his way to Damascus. So as soon as Jesus said: "The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses", Paul knew exactly what was being talked about. Moses had a literal chair in the temple he sat in and read the Torah to the Children of Israel. Moses sat in that seat and told people what God said for them to do.

At the end of time, just before Christ comes, another man, the Man of sin, will also figuratively take that same seat of Divine Authority and tell people what they can legally do, which previously had been only in God's Domain.

The important thing to note here is that the Pharisees "seated themselves". Nobody told them to sit in that seat, they TOOK it. They just came in and took the seat and assumed to dictate God's Word without it being authorized. Same as the Man of Sin in our end times. If the Old Time Jews would have recognized Jesus, they should have surrendered that seat to it's rightful Owner, but that's another story. We're trying not to miss the time of OUR Visitation.

So Moses was the teacher of the Law, the Word of God. Moses WAS appointed by God, the "seat" was his. He was long gone when Jesus said this so the Scribes and the Pharisees had really just taken over Moses' job or his "seat", figuratively, which was Moses' place of authority in the Temple of God.

Both the Pre Tribulation Rapture People, and the Post Tribulation Rapture People can both be correct today, because there's different kinds of tribulation, personal and corporate level tribulation. I think a bunch of the things have been happening, and are happening now.

The Man of Sin is here, he has taken his seat of authority, and has been dividing the land, dividing the earth for a price, for a profit. It could just be about that time for the news from the east, and from the north to trouble him. He's king of the north. So it's news happening now from his home base that is troubling him, so he goes out with great fury next to destroy many, and devote many to destruction. Trouble from the east and trouble from the north. That could happen in a week or two. No need for rebuilt temples. We might be much closer than we think. I wouldn't be banking on the Old Hal Lindsey narrative at this time.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Paul uses apostasia to show a falling away from God to the antichrist/false god. Pretrib claims the falling away is the Pretrib rapture which poses an obviously dangerous theology.

I don't think so. I think you've brainwashed yourself from a lifetime of looking through the same eyes at things, and arguing with these other guys here all day. Like D and K with all the charts and pamphlets. They're brainwashed too. You need one of those felt boards the guy is talking about where you can peel off the subject matter from the velcro chart and move it around. Pull the falling away from the future, and stick it just past us now. Next is the Man of Sin REVEALED, then Christ comes to destroy him with the brightness of His coming.

Paul is using apostasia to show the Old Time Jews a long time ago they had a long way to go to the Day of the Lord and our being gathered to Him.. Before that happens we'll have legalized abortions, legalized pornography and same sex Sodomite marriage. All over most of the world. People will bring their kids to gender discovery clinics. Have sex change operations, and think it's a good thing. This is the falling away. People think it's normal.

Pretrib is trying to use those first century Pauline instructions to plan the timing of the Rapture. It can sort of work, as long as they don't get the falling away mixed up. Who said it's Christians falling away from the faith? It's actually the whole world wandering after the composite beast.

If it were Christians falling away from the Gospel, when is that happening? Charlie Kirk assasination? Or five or seven years from now? It's not. It's Lawlessness. The rebellion, when rebels have reached their limit.

It's God saying, through Moses' seat, "You must not lie down with a man as with a woman; that is an abomination.

Then the Dragon, giving his power and throne to the composite beast, legalizing the Days of Lot. The USA becoming the 21st nation on earth legalizing same sex marriage. That and all the rest of the transgressive legislation. Who can make war with it? He's called the "Lawless one" for a reason, that should have been your hint. It's Satan working through the composite beast.

We've been living through the falling away since the Ward Cleaver days, too close to it for everyone to recognize it. Like the frog in the pot of water on the way to boil. Nobody notices until they try to use public funds to transplant a womb into a transvestite man so that he can have a baby. Governments give the same rights to tranny men as women, should they pay for womb transplantation? If Paul could show this to the Old Time Jews in Thessalonica, they would have known they had a long, long time to go, they didn't miss the Rapture. Lol.

Spoiler: A Right to Gestate

A right to gestate
In light of womb transplant technology we need to address whether or not there is a right to gestate, not whether or not the NHS should fund it – the question that has so far dominated media coverage. Finite public resources should not be invoked as a smokescreen to mask prejudices towards gender reassigned individuals who parliament has given clear rights to. If it is decided that women should be allowed womb transplants on the NHS, it follows given the legislation enacted by parliament that trans women have the same rights as their female counterparts.

Medical law expert on womb transplants, unisex pregnancy, and the ‘right to gestate’

As womb transplants move from science fiction to science fact, we need to consider some ethical dilemmas.

theconversation.com

 

[ewq1938]

I don't think so. I think you've brainwashed yourself from a lifetime of looking through the same eyes at things, and arguing with these other guys here all day.

No, it's just a fact about the Greek word apostasia. You speak of brainwashed but you might want to investigate that a little closer to home.

apostasia is apostasy and apostates are not raptured to Christ. apostasia is not the rapture. The lake of fire isn't heaven either just in case anyone reading has those two confused as well.

 

[rebuilder 454]

No, it's just a fact about the Greek word apostasia. You speak of brainwashed but you might want to investigate that a little closer to home.

apostasia is apostasy and apostates are not raptured to Christ. apostasia is not the rapture. The lake of fire isn't heaven either just in case anyone reading has those two confused as well.

It can be laid out for you 100 times and you would wind up that postribber doctrine parrot doll and replay it.

Look at that passage with a bible. No workbook.
1) that passage is overly simple.
2) it needs no spin...zero
3) it can EASILY be interpreted for either side.
4) IT IS NO SMOKING GUN , for EITHER side of the debate.
5) There is an incapacity of IQ, by some here , that can not accept, that, "apostacy" and "departure", are LITERALLY the same word. ( greek= "from standing")
6) it is AGRRED by most theologians, that it IS a departure FROM THE FAITH.
7) we are in the departure from the faith now.
8) again, some here with low IQ CAN NOT process "revealed". They have no idea what the Word means.
Nor do they care. The postribber workbook says "it means in full power".

So why do we have the postribber merry go round hamster wheel low info plan/ theory on display?

It has to be a spirit driving it.

The bible ends with the spirit and the bride calling out to heaven for Jesus to come.
COME LORD JESUS.
Postribbers mock that and ridicule it.
Yep it is a spirit operating in them.

 

[marks]

Really? Is this how you read the mark as literal narrative? Perhaps you will need to explain if the beasts will be literal and coming out of the sea and earth literally? Good luck.

Good luck to you also!

 

[marks]

Isn’t it both? …because those who are deceived and therefore believe the lies that are spewing forth like a flood out of Satan’s mouth (“forehead”) will end up doing his work (“hands”).

The “forehead” and “hands” are metaphors.

There is nothing in the passage that I can see that makes these things metaphors, much less defining what these metaphors would mean. Can you show me these in the Bible?

Much love!

 

[KUWN]

What is your point?

In fact you just presented an opinion.

Where did I present an opinion? always willing to learn

 

[marks]

Matthew 7:28-29 (KJV)
28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

 

[KUWN]

Someone replied to EddieM wanting to know where in the Bible it says unbelievers are redeemed. The passage EddieM cites is 2 Peter 2:1.

I searched AI and found the view of EddieM. The payment of sins (redeem) pays for all mankind's sins. Since they were paid for, something else must be the basis of man's eternal condemnation. The Missing Step below would be his answer:

AI Overview

The phrase "EddieM redeem unbeliever" points directly to arguments made by a prominent online forum user named EddieM on theological message boards like Worthy Christian Forums and Christian Chat. [1, 2]
His specific doctrinal position focuses on separating the concepts of redemption and salvation:

• • The Core Argument: EddieM argues that according to certain biblical texts (such as 2 Peter 2:1), unbelievers have already been "redeemed" by the blood of Christ. [1]
  • Redemption vs. Salvation: In his view, Christ paid the price (redeemed) for the sins of the entire world, meaning unbelievers are not eternally condemned simply for their personal sins. [1]
  • The Missing Step: He clarifies that being "redeemed" does not automatically mean an unbeliever is "saved". For salvation to take place, the individual must still personally accept the gift through faith. Without that faith, they remain unsaved despite the legal price of their redemption having been paid. [1, 2]

 

[marks]

Someone replied to EddieM wanting to know where in the Bible it says unbelievers are redeemed. The passage EddieM cites is 2 Peter 2:1.

I searched AI and found the view of EddieM. The payment of sins (redeem) pays for all mankind's sins. Since they were paid for, something else must be the basis of man's eternal condemnation. The Missing Step below would be his answer:

AI Overview

The phrase "EddieM redeem unbeliever" points directly to arguments made by a prominent online forum user named EddieM on theological message boards like Worthy Christian Forums and Christian Chat. [1, 2]
His specific doctrinal position focuses on separating the concepts of redemption and salvation:

• • The Core Argument: EddieM argues that according to certain biblical texts (such as 2 Peter 2:1), unbelievers have already been "redeemed" by the blood of Christ. [1]
  • Redemption vs. Salvation: In his view, Christ paid the price (redeemed) for the sins of the entire world, meaning unbelievers are not eternally condemned simply for their personal sins. [1]
  • The Missing Step: He clarifies that being "redeemed" does not automatically mean an unbeliever is "saved". For salvation to take place, the individual must still personally accept the gift through faith. Without that faith, they remain unsaved despite the legal price of their redemption having been paid. [1, 2]

It's not sufficient to be reconciled to God by Christ's death, but you must also receive that reconciliation to benefit.

Behold the Lamb of God, Who carries away the sin of the world. And, You must be born again to see the kingdom of heaven.

Much love!

 

[KUWN]

It's not sufficient to be reconciled to God by Christ's death, but you must also receive that reconciliation to benefit.

Behold the Lamb of God, Who carries away the sin of the world. And, You must be born again to see the kingdom of heaven.

Much love!

Hey Marks, I think he means redeemed in the sense mentioned in 2 Pt 2:1. The price for the payment of sins applies to all mankind. And it is this payment that is the basis of the gospel presentation. I can't get over the statement Eddie makes that sins are not related to eternal condemnation. I asked Eddie and he basically said all sins have been paid for, not potentially paid for, but the payment in full of all my sins did not make me a believer. Yes, you must accept God's offer of salvation despite the payment in full of our sins.

Here is another statement he gave me has me thinking. Gen 3:13-19:

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.

15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”

16 To the woman he said,
“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”

17 To Adam he said,
“Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you,
‘You must not eat from it,’
“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”


He said, Notice that the punishment for each sinner is only related to our time on earth, there are no eternal consequences for sin., the punishment is only good for our finite life on earth.

Finally, he adds that when a person commits a sin, that sin is imputed to Christ, not the person committing it.

2 Cor 5:
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: 18 The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

 

[rebuilder 454]

It's not sufficient to be reconciled to God by Christ's death, but you must also receive that reconciliation to benefit.

Behold the Lamb of God, Who carries away the sin of the world. And, You must be born again to see the kingdom of heaven.

Much love!

Yes.
Salvation is a gift.
A free gift.
Most reject it.
So we have redeemed vs unredeemed humanoids.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It's not sufficient to be reconciled to God by Christ's death, but you must also receive that reconciliation to benefit.

Behold the Lamb of God, Who carries away the sin of the world. And, You must be born again to see the kingdom of heaven.

This is interesting coming from someone who thinks the sheep of Matthew 25:31-46 have to earn salvation by their works.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Paul uses apostasia to show a falling away from God to the antichrist/false god. Pretrib claims the falling away is the Pretrib rapture which poses an obviously dangerous theology.

Paul was using apostasia to show a bunch of people in the 1st century that the Rapture, and the Day of the Lord had not happened yet. They were still following the Chair of Moses at that time. The Rebellion, the Apostasia, had not yet happened.

I still don't see how it's a dangerous theology?

No, it's just a fact about the Greek word apostasia. You speak of brainwashed but you might want to investigate that a little closer to home.

apostasia is apostasy and apostates are not raptured to Christ. apostasia is not the rapture. The lake of fire isn't heaven either just in case anyone reading has those two confused as well.

I never said apostates are Raptured to Christ. I never said the lake of fire is heaven. Is this like arguing with a straw man?

You can't use 2Thessalonians2 to time the Man of Sin introducing himself, or the Rapture and Christ's coming with any specificity, so it won't work to disprove a Pre Tribulation Rapture. The Rebellion, the Man of Sin revealed, and the brightness of Christ's, coming can span many a long year. He rode a tank, held a general's rank when the Blitzkrieg raged and the bodies stank. It could be 80 or 100, or 2000 years. The "apostasia", the rebellion, had not yet happened when Paul was writing his letters.

We have and had the rebellion now, and the kingdom of the rebels, and now as the rebels are reaching their limit at the end of their reign. It's a rebellion from the Chair of Moses, the things God told people to do. The people Paul were talking to in Thessalonians were still following the things of Moses, what God tells people to do. Circumcision, which begins in the heart, don't dress up like women, and all those types of things. The first time "apostasia", the only other time "apsotasia" is used is in Acts, it's talking about a rebellion from the Seat of Moses, the Laws of God. Where it's translated as "forsake" regarding abandoning the Mosaic law. I know the LAW is a bad word to Christians, but it is what it is.

Paul's List

1) Rebellion comes first,
2) Man of Sin revealed,
3) The brightness of His coming.

Is like Revelation 11's

1)The nations raged
2)But Your Wrath came,
3)And the time to judge the dead.

From these broad brushstrokes you can't disprove a pre tribulation Rapture.

It's going to turn out that the Rapture people are more in the right, because the rebellion, the tribulation, is not that easy to recognize. Nor is the Man of Sin. That's why he has to be revealed, he's hidden in plain sight. The events of Revelation are not that easy to recognize. When the first resurrection happens, the Pre Trib people will be happy, because we're not at the start of a seven year, or a multi year tribulation.

I don't think we will know how it happens exactly, until it happens. We sure can't figure it out from the Pauline Epistles. When or if something bad does happen in the no flesh saved alive tribulation, it should be as quick as lightning from the east and to the west. As quick as two people doing something, and one is taken and one is left. They won't have any time to go home to the bunker and eat their prepper meals. On the Day that the the Son of Man is reveled, so shall it be.

We are not destined for Wrath. I'll try it without any prophetic time periods.

"For God has not destined us for wrath,​

but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,​

1)The nations raged
2)But Your Wrath came,
3)And the time to judge the dead.

And

4)And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
5)And those who fear Your name, small and great,
6)And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”

Rapture before Tribulation, in between 1) Nation Rage, and before 2) Wrath. God's People are obtaining salvation, rewarding the saints, (Rapture), BEFORE this Wrath, (tribulation), then comes the time to judge the dead. This is the Pauline phase of the judgement process. Or do you not know the saints will judge the world? The saints will judge angels?

We still can't pin it to a day, or an hour, or a year with any of this, but as we see the nations rage, the Rapture can be any minute here. Therefore comfort one another with these words. Though there is a bunch of spooky news right now:

Spoiler: Nations urging People to Stockpile

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2115889030025843159

23 COUNTRIES TOLD THEIR CITIZENS TO STOCK UP ON FOOD AND WATER. THE US TOLD ITS BASES TO PREP FOR 90 DAYS.

Governments across the world know something is coming. They will not say what it is, but they have all directed their citizens to get prepared now.

The Global Prep List:
UK: 3 days. Beans, water, and radios SOLD OUT.
Germany: 10 days. The largest home ask.
Sweden: 1 week. Sent to 5 million homes.
Japan: 1 week.
France: 72 hours.
Canada, Mexico, EU: 72 hours.
Australia: Just joined.

The US:
The Pentagon wants major bases ready to run at least 90 days off-grid with no outside support.
Plan Ahead for Disasters tells citizens to have food and water for a few days.
Former FBI Deputy Director Dan Bongino warns: "Your neighbors are not going to have any extra food."

The Intelsphere Perspective:

Look at the math. 3 days for your home. 90 days for a US military base.

Why do the bases need 90 days of autonomy? What are they preparing for that requires three months of isolation?

And look at the UK warning. They are the only ones telling people to have cash money in case electronic systems go down.

Imagine waking up tomorrow and the banking system is frozen. You cannot withdraw cash. You cannot buy food. People will accept any solution. And there is the opening for a completely digital financial system.

This is "The Great Reset" in real time. The Central Banks and globalist elites are building the legal framework for a controlled collapse to force you into poverty and make you dependent on their new digital currency (CBDC).

Paper money will cease to exist. Your ability to buy food will depend on your behavior. AI will be trained to control billions. You will all be slaves.

But first, everything has to get really bad so you will accept it. Wars. Pandemics. Food shortages. They are willfully creating that hell.

The banks are building the narrative. The governments are handing out survival flyers.

So, when is Big Mama US LLC going to tell its own citizens to stock up on food for a month? Or do they only care about keeping the military bases running while the rest of us fend for ourselves?

What's your next move ?

3:30 PM · Oct 29, 2026
from Elmont, NY

Map Shows Nations Urging People to Stockpile Food as France Issues Warning
Published
https://www.newsweek.com/map-shows-countries-urging-residents-to-stockpile-food-12629524
Oct 28, 2026 at 11:39 AM EDT

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[ewq1938]

Paul was using apostasia to show a bunch of people in the 1st century that the Rapture, and the Day of the Lord had not happened yet.

He was assurinmg them it hadn't happened, and that it could not happen un til the Apostasy and revealing of the MOS happened first, which makes a Pretrib rapture impossible.

They were still following the Chair of Moses at that time. The Rebellion, the Apostasia, had not yet happened.

I still don't see how it's a dangerous theology?

Because a false christ can claim a false rapture and trick people to worship him, which would be an Apostasy. It's written the MOS can perform miracles to deceive. Also, the bible places the rapture after the trib has ended so adding all together means believing in a rapture at the wrong timeframe is very dangerous.

I never said apostates are Raptured to Christ. I never said the lake of fire is heaven. Is this like arguing with a straw man?

Pretrib teaches the apostasia is the rapture rather than the Apostasy and I used the LOF/heaven as an exmple of something just as wrong to make a point.

Paul's List

1) Rebellion comes first,
2) Man of Sin revealed,
3) The brightness of His coming.

4. Rapture.

Is like Revelation 11's

1)The nations raged
2)But Your Wrath came,
3)And the time to judge the dead.

From these broad brushstrokes you can't disprove a pre tribulation Rapture.

Pauls list shows a Pretrib rapture cannot happen because the Apostasy and revealing of the MOS happen before the rapture and those events are related to the trib.

 

[rebuilder 454]

He was assurinmg them it hadn't happened, and that it could not happen un til the Apostasy and revealing of the MOS happened first, which makes a Pretrib rapture impossible.





Because a false christ can claim a false rapture and trick people to worship him, which would be an Apostasy. It's written the MOS can perform miracles to deceive. Also, the bible places the rapture after the trib has ended so adding all together means believing in a rapture at the wrong timeframe is very dangerous.







Pretrib teaches the apostasia is the rapture rather than the Apostasy and I used the LOF/heaven as an exmple of something just as wrong to make a point.





4. Rapture.





Pauls list shows a Pretrib rapture cannot happen because the Apostasy and revealing of the MOS happen before the rapture and those events are related to the trib.

QUOTE
"He was assurinmg them it hadn't happened, and that it could not happen un til the Apostasy and revealing of the MOS happened first, which makes a Pretrib rapture impossible."

Lol
The pretrib rapture incorporates all of that.
You lack any desire to learn what is written and what we believe.
Get a bible and study.
Postrib teachers have you parroting postrib talking points.

I have many many verses that are NOT in your workbook.

The elephant in the room, is that NO POSTRIBBER knows the purpose of the trib, nor what the rapture actually is.

You guys get an F .

 

[CrowCross]

He was assurinmg them it hadn't happened, and that it could not happen un til the Apostasy and revealing of the MOS happened first, which makes a Pretrib rapture impossible.

The "apostasy" or rapture happens prior to the tribulation begins.....that is after the restrainer is removed and then the antichrist is revealed.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Paul's List

1) Rebellion comes first,
2) Man of Sin revealed,
3) The brightness of His coming.

4. Rapture.

I still think it's before the Man of Sin revealed. Or very soon as he's being revealed.

Pauls list shows a Pretrib rapture cannot happen because the Apostasy and revealing of the MOS happen before the rapture and those events are related to the trib.

I still think you can't disprove a Pretrib Rapture from the Thessalonians. I'm not sure that's what Paul meant it for, to create so much division.

I'm not normally a Pretrib guy, but I think both sides can be correct, because both sides are still holding on to the the Hal Lindsey style Antichrist and Mark of the Beast Tribulation.

I think something specific happened, not too long ago, that forces those and other Tribulation things to have happened already, and are happening now.

Another way to look at it, when the earth is ripe, there's two separate harvests.

The Rapture Harvest happens first:

Reaping the Earth’s Harvest​

14Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come [j]for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.​

Then after the Rapture, comes the harvest of the Bad Grapes:

Reaping the Grapes of Wrath​

17Then another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.​

​

18And another angel came out from the altar, who had power over fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, “Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe.” 19So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses’ bridles, for one thousand six hundred [k]furlongs.​

Did you notice any of the strange noises coming out of Trump's mouth? You really had to hear them live to believe they were not AI generated. It sounded like he's burping like a frog. Sounded like out of the mouth of the beast, frog like demons go out to gather the kings of the earth for Armageddon. Crazy.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2113054759070392523

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2115651129279136251

 

[CrowCross]

Did you notice any of the strange noises coming out of Trump's mouth? You really had to hear them live to believe they were not AI generated. It sounded like he's burping like a frog. Sounded like out of the mouth of the beast, frog like demons go out to gather the kings of the earth for Armageddon. Crazy.

As a Christian....are you praying for Trump?

 

[rebuilder 454]

I still think it's before the Man of Sin revealed. Or very soon as he's being revealed.

I still think you can't disprove a Pretrib Rapture from the Thessalonians. I'm not sure that's what Paul meant it for, to create so much division.

I'm not normally a Pretrib guy, but I think both sides can be correct, because both sides are still holding on to the the Hal Lindsey style Antichrist and Mark of the Beast Tribulation.

I think something specific happened, not too long ago, that forces those and other Tribulation things to have happened already, and are happening now.

Another way to look at it, when the earth is ripe, there's two separate harvests.

The Rapture Harvest happens first:

Reaping the Earth’s Harvest​

14Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come [j]for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.​

Then after the Rapture, comes the harvest of the Bad Grapes:

Reaping the Grapes of Wrath​

17Then another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.​

​

18And another angel came out from the altar, who had power over fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, “Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe.” 19So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses’ bridles, for one thousand six hundred [k]furlongs.​

Did you notice any of the strange noises coming out of Trump's mouth? You really had to hear them live to believe they were not AI generated. It sounded like he's burping like a frog. Sounded like out of the mouth of the beast, frog like demons go out to gather the kings of the earth for Armageddon. Crazy.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2113054759070392523

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2115651129279136251

You probably follow the same crazies that tried to smear mother Theresa.