Why is Christianity so focused on Sin?

Born_Again said:

Remind me again what any of this back and forth has to do with the OP....

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Nothing.
Stranger derailed this thread to another one of his anti-Catholic rants.

BreadOfLife said:

Nothing.
Stranger derailed this thread to another one of his anti-Catholic rants.

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Stranger... Lets get this back on track. Feel free to read the CyB rules of conduct when you get a chance.

Thanks!

BA

Sin is the issue, the false church system, has the whole gospel backwards, leaving all the professed in their carnal minds, thinking the son came to set them free from His wrath, which could be further from the truth.



Act 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith(faithfulness) that is in me.

In order for a radical transformation to occur in the heart, where the blood of Christ has turned them from dark to the light, from the power of satan to the power God, there must have been a real radical renovation of the soul.(2 Cor 7:10-11)

This renovation, or being made completely new again,(2 Cor 5-17) must be proven by the deeds(faith/obedience to truth) brought on through a major crisis of conviction that led to bitter repentance (Acts 3-19)and crucifying of the flesh,(Gal 5-24) where going back to any rebellious ways is over, never to be repeated again. (Matt 3-8).

If the eyes were truly opened, and a “release from bondage” (redemption) has taken place, then I do not see why so many who claim to have repented of their sins, fall back into their rebellious ways after a supposed conversion. (Eph 1-18).

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;(produce) for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.(Born again).

Being born of God requires a radical transformation of the soul! Where the seed of God is now planted in the heart, and now committing any rebellious sins against Him, (Gal 5:19-21) and I mean those pre meditated, well planned and thought out sins of the flesh, that are driven by rebellion, lust, hate, envy, revenge, etc. are totally removed from the heart, mind and soul, now replaced with the laws of God, (Heb 10-16) upheld by faith or faithfulness to those laws. (Righteous requirements) Now going back to your vomit (Prov 26-11) either shows you were never converted in the first place or you were, and now will have a very difficult time if not impossible to come back again, and find that real repentance that brought you into His light once and for all.(Heb 6-10, 10-26).

We will never be perfect in knowledge or understanding, we make mistakes, and have faults, God has given us emotions that act as a warning for us to check our hearts, as to worry leading to sins of the flesh, or anger leading to hate, murder, and violence, foul language, as well as fear and loneliness leading to breaking away from God and into worldly lusts. (James 1:13-15).

But IF you are still struggling with sins of the flesh, then no real radical transformation has taken place in your heart, because those who still struggle with these type of sins, either say they were born again in this state, (condition) or that they can claim 1 JN 1-9 or 2-1(easy forgiveness) after a fall, and simply find repentance again! This will show that they are still carnal, (Rom 8-5-6) but still have a chance to come clean with God once and for all! (Rev 2-5) Never to look back, (Matt 16-24) while they count the cost of dying to self, (Romans Ch 6)and living for Christ,(Luke 14:28-30) filled with His spirit, and power, to never have to make the excuse they fell back into sins of the flesh.(1 Cor 6:9-10-11).

A real renovated(redeemed) convert who does the unthinkable(going back to vomit) is either insane, or has just thrown out all those precious and exceedingly great promises by God,(2 Peter 1-4) who said He will always give a way out of temptation,(1 Cor 10-13) plus never give us more than we can bear! Making a second repentance a real dilemma, where going through real godly sorrow again, (2 Cor 7;10-11) will require possibly months to years of sever brokenness and contriteness, trying to find mercy again, after trampling on the blood, counting it as dung! A real converted soul will never go there, not because they are special or better than the rest, but because they have done their first works right,(Rev 2-5) and a real radical transformation has occurred (taken place) in the heart and soul, (cleansing and purging by the blood)(Heb 9-14) and they know that going back to their vomit(2 Peter 2:20-22) would be the most hateful, selfish, foolish, and evil thing they could do before God who has set them free,(John 8-36) and made them a holy nation and a royal priesthood in His name!(1 Peter 2-9).

Rom 6:7 For he that is dead(to sin) is freed from sin.

Death is permanent, and so should the repentance you went through to put the flesh to death once and for all!

You must come clean with God, come out of all willful vile sin (Listed in Galatians 5), once and for all, to even have a chance to be indwelt with the holy Spirit. And the holy Spirit has nothing to do with you if you are sinning, except to convict you of sin, righteousness, and the judgement to come - but if you keep on sinning, you can go past the point of no return, with your heart seared over, unable to feel that conviction bearing down on your soul. And don't think you know God, and still commit those vile sins, because I John 2: 4 says "He who says "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

pradeep said:

Why can't it be just about experiencing the love of God? Why not just about knowing the Holy Spirit, living by the wisdom in the Bible?


Instead, new believers have to feel guilty about their Sin. Let's be honest, most people are not sinners but are struggling. They struggle in their jobs, their finances, their health etc.

They struggle to pay the bills, to find someone who actually cares about them.

They feel normal human emotions like anger, frustrations, hate, even lust.

Why is that evil?

Now such a person would love to experience the love of Jesus & the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

But to reach there, they first have to confess their sins, feel bad about themselves.

It is almost as if sin is the key concept in the Bible.

My parents know me with all my shortcomings. They still love me, and never ask me to confess my so called "sins" everyday for them to love me. Why is it different with God the Father then?

If Christianity was more about spreading the love and forgiveness of Jesus, and less about the condemnation of Sin - we would have lot more believers. Who doesn't want God as a personal friend?

And just for the sake of argument, here is what other religions say on the topic of sin:

Hinduism: The concept of Sin doesn't even exists. They have more of a guidelines about living an ethical life.
Islam: The concept of Sin exists, and good deeds must be performed regularly to outweight the quota of sin in a person's life.
Buddhism: The concept of Sin doesn't exists. "Paapa" or "Punya" are towards another person, whereas Biblical Sin is against God.

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Its a good question and I guess we need to understand what 'sin' actually is to understand why christianity is so focused on it.

Sin means to 'miss' The hebrew word actually means 'miss' as in when you throw a ball and it misses the hoop.
In this sense, its like being 'off target'

Our target should be to live by Gods perfect and just laws, but we miss that by a long shot....and this what it means to live in sin.

Why is sin so bad? James 1:15 says that when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. So death is the result of sin. If we were perfect, we would not die and we would never be alienated from God.

Thats why sin is so focused on in Christianity. Its what keeps us separated from our Creator.

I hope this answers your question.

The reason the Gospel is "Good News" is because humanity is in a bad situation. The term "salvation" indicates that we can be rescued from that bad situation. The human dilemma is not that we merely feel emotions or have "shortcomings." The human dilemma is that we are utterly sinful, corrupt and will face the punishment for our evil. The only way we can embrace the "Good News" is if we humble ourselves and come to God seeking mercy and grace. It's hard to humble yourself if you don't feel you have done anything wrong. THAT is why sin is something Christianity focuses on. As 1 John 1 tells us,

“If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.” (1 John 1:8–10, NIV84)

Sin matters because Jesus died for a reason and that reason was to rescue us from our sins. If we do not recognize our sin, then we do not recognize our need for a Savior and "his word has no place in our lives."

brionne said:

Thats why sin is so focused on in Christianity. Its what keeps us separated from our Creator.

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Its because they have no faith in what Christ has done. The devil loves christians focussing on sin, as stated above, it keeps christians seperated from God, not because of teh sin, but because of unbeleif. Jesus never dies too stop teh flesh from sinning, He died so there would be no condmenation, so if one if s feeling condndemned of there sins than they havnt accpted teh finished work that Christ "DID", ands are still focused on teh flesh and not teh spirit.

Rom_8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Joh_5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Gal 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

James 4:17Amplified Bible, Classic Edition (AMPC)
17 So any person who knows what is right to do but does not do it, to him it is sin.


So sin is not about morality but to do with what is the right thing to do for us at a given moment.

The Bible does mention original sin it was introduced into Christianity in the 2nd century

The concept of original sin was first alluded to in the 2nd century by Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyon in his controversy with certain dualist Gnostics. Other church fathers such as Augustine also developed the doctrine, seeing it as based on the New Testament teaching of Paul the Apostle (Romans 5:12–21 and 1Corinthians 15:22) and the Old Testament verse of Psalms 51: 5-8 Tertullian, Cyprian, Ambrose and Ambrosiaster considered that humanity shares in Adam's sin, transmitted by human generation. Augustine's formulation of original sin was popular among Protestant reformers, such as Martin Luther and John Calvin, who equated original sin with concupiscence, affirming that it persisted even after baptism and completely destroyed freedom. The Jansenist movement, which the Catholic Church declared to be heretical, also maintained that original sin destroyed freedom of will.

Christianity is exclusive and encourages members to focus on purification and purging accordingly; strange because Christ is inclusive.

pradeep said:

Let's be honest, most people are not sinners but are struggling.

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The only way that could be so would be if those "most people" are resurrected saints, but they wouldn't necessarily be 'struggling'. One of the early tenets of belief for Christians given in the Nicene Creed is that of looking to the resurrection of the dead, remaining hopeful; but make no mistake about it, at some point in time, "all men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God".

I've considered how some such souls resurrected would be in the state of beatification without ever having heard, nor read, the Gospel of Jesus Christ after normal term of delivery, viz., someone who had been a victim of abortion.

This thread seemed to start out peaceful enough, but I noticed increasingly more bold words as the thread continued; a personal critique of mine upon examination, as subliminal as it might be, would be for signatures to be grammatically correct, especially if they contain anything using bold; and as in a case such as that of the signature of "mjrhealth", some assistance might be necessary as it seems that user could have some dyslexia.

Overall, the answers I've read seem quite adequate to having addressed the original question posed in the topic title.

I enter this posit to this thread not only because I have become aware of my own resurrection, which admittedly only comes through Christ Jesus', but that I have become aware of the resurrections of others, too.

aspen said:

Christianity is exclusive and encourages members to focus on purification and purging accordingly; strange because Christ is inclusive.

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He didn't seem very inclusive to the Pharisees or the rich young ruler. He didn't seem very inclusive when he told people that those who wanted to follow him needed to have the commitment level of being willing to die a horrible death on a cross. He didn't seem very inclusive when he walked across the sea to get away from the mobs of people who were following him after he fed 5,000. He was not very inclusive when he spoke in parables so that "hearing they might not hear, seeing they might not see, lest they turn and I should heal them." He was not inclusive of many in the seven churches in Revelation that he warned that he would "spit out of his mouth" or blot their name out of the book of life if they did not "repent" and turn from their sin.

The point is that Jesus was inclusive to those who were willing to make him the Lord of their lives and put him and his message above themselves. He was not inclusive to the half-hearted, arrogant or those who merely wanted him for comfort and a free lunch. He didn't accept sinners because they were sinful (i.e. the rich young ruler he sent away because he loved money, the idolators and judiazers he warned in Revelation that he would "war against them with the sword of his mouth"). He accepted some sinners because they recognized their need for healing and were willing to repent and surrender themselves to him completely. Those who felt they weren't that bad off or that their pride, greed, lust, etc. was not that big of a deal were not "included."

Wormwood said:

the rich young ruler he sent away because he loved money

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That isn't an accurate account of what happened, n.b. :

Matthew 19 :

21 Jesus saith to him: If thou wilt be perfect, go sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come follow me.

22 And when the young man had heard this word, he went away sad: for he had great possessions.

so, a difference of semantics, that also assumes that Christ was not aware of the choice the rich man would make?

pradeep said:

Why can't it be just about experiencing the love of God? Why not just about knowing the Holy Spirit, living by the wisdom in the Bible?


Instead, new believers have to feel guilty about their Sin. Let's be honest, most people are not sinners but are struggling. They struggle in their jobs, their finances, their health etc.

They struggle to pay the bills, to find someone who actually cares about them.

They feel normal human emotions like anger, frustrations, hate, even lust.

Why is that evil?

Now such a person would love to experience the love of Jesus & the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

But to reach there, they first have to confess their sins, feel bad about themselves.

It is almost as if sin is the key concept in the Bible.

My parents know me with all my shortcomings. They still love me, and never ask me to confess my so called "sins" everyday for them to love me. Why is it different with God the Father then?

If Christianity was more about spreading the love and forgiveness of Jesus, and less about the condemnation of Sin - we would have lot more believers. Who doesn't want God as a personal friend?

And just for the sake of argument, here is what other religions say on the topic of sin:

Hinduism: The concept of Sin doesn't even exists. They have more of a guidelines about living an ethical life.
Islam: The concept of Sin exists, and good deeds must be performed regularly to outweight the quota of sin in a person's life.
Buddhism: The concept of Sin doesn't exists. "Paapa" or "Punya" are towards another person, whereas Biblical Sin is against God.

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Your sentiments are appreciated...but show a level of misunderstanding.

Sin is not the focus, it is rather, a signpost saying: "You Are Here."

The problem is that, unbeknownst to those hearing of our status and fate for the first time, they cannot see back far enough to know where we came from, nor forward enough to know where we are headed. If we stood under a lamppost and were told that danger is coming from around the next bend...we shouldn't believe every yahoo who makes such a claim, but we may want to begin to listen when the message is the same for millennia from people who have never met, but have heard the truth from the same Authority.

So... the subject of sin...is not a put down. It's a wake up call. You either hear the warning, or ignore it and suffer the consequences. Christians are...just sayin'...and it usually comes out of love.

As for there being no sin...such is life under the lamppost. Some may even call it bliss. But if one only theorizes within the limits of their own knowledge, that is not wisdom. That is simply a system of blissful admitted lack of knowledge, like closing ones eyes before an approaching train wreck.

He didn't seem very inclusive to the Pharisees or the rich young ruler. He didn't seem very inclusive when he told people that those who wanted to follow him needed to have the commitment level of being willing to die a horrible death on a cross. He didn't seem very inclusive when he walked across the sea to get away from the mobs of people who were following him after he fed 5,000. He was not very inclusive when he spoke in parables so that "hearing they might not hear, seeing they might not see, lest they turn and I should heal them." He was not inclusive of many in the seven churches in Revelation that he warned that he would "spit out of his mouth" or blot their name out of the book of life if they did not "repent" and turn from their sin.

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We seem to be viewing the term 'inclusive' differently. Jesus reached out to all of the people you have mentioned; like Adam and Eve in the Garden, it was their inability or unwillingness to see past their own shortcomings or sin that kept them from recognizing Jesus's invitation to love.

Jesus looks past our false self, which is the part of us that includes our opinions and habits and tastes; all the things we identitify as 'who we are'. It is those very things that stop us from union with God. In fact, the gospel acknowledges the false self in a story about the Judgment where Jesus declares 'I never knew you' - Jesus chooses to recognize who we truly are; He has no desire to pretend we are the smoke and mirrors we call ourselves. Jesus approaches everyone from His true self - which is why His relationship with His Father is rightly described as 'deep calling out to deep'

The point is that Jesus was inclusive to those who were willing to make him the Lord of their lives and put him and his message above themselves. He was not inclusive to the half-hearted, arrogant or those who merely wanted him for comfort and a free lunch. He didn't accept sinners because they were sinful (i.e. the rich young ruler he sent away because he loved money, the idolators and judiazers he warned in Revelation that he would "war against them with the sword of his mouth"). He accepted some sinners because they recognized their need for healing and were willing to repent and surrender themselves to him completely. Those who felt they weren't that bad off or that their pride, greed, lust, etc. was not that big of a deal were not "included."

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We disagree. Sin separates us from God, not God from us.

mjrhealth said:

Its because they have no faith in what Christ has done. The devil loves christians focussing on sin, as stated above, it keeps christians seperated from God, not because of teh sin, but because of unbeleif. Jesus never dies too stop teh flesh from sinning, He died so there would be no condmenation, so if one if s feeling condndemned of there sins than they havnt accpted teh finished work that Christ "DID", ands are still focused on teh flesh and not teh spirit.

Rom_8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Joh_5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Gal 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

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Hi mjrhealth,

I agree with you that through Christs sacrifice, we have forgiveness of sin and there is no condemnation....everlasting life will be the result.
But do you notice in the verse you quote Romans 8:1 that there is no condemnation 'to them which are in Christ Jesus who walk not after flesh'
That is a very important statement because it shows that if we are walking in sin....in other words, if we continue to practice sin willfully, then we are still condemned.

So Jesus sacrifice provides freedom from condemnation ONLY TO THOSE who have repented of their sins and turn away from disobedience.

bbyrd009 said:

so, a difference of

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fact from fiction.

Christ didn't send him away and having great possessions does not equate with loving money.

Christianity is focused on Christ.

the_sign said:

That isn't an accurate account of what happened, n.b. :

Matthew 19 :

21 Jesus saith to him: If thou wilt be perfect, go sell what thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come follow me.

22 And when the young man had heard this word, he went away sad: for he had great possessions.

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“ἔφη αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς· εἰ θέλεις τέλειος εἶναι, ὕπαγε πώλησόν σου τὰ ὑπάρχοντα καὶ δὸς [τοῖς] πτωχοῖς, καὶ ἕξεις θησαυρὸν ἐν οὐρανοῖς, καὶ δεῦρο ἀκολούθει μοι.” (Matthew 19:21, NA27)

Jesus clearly makes a conditional statement to the rich young man. "If you desire to be complete/perfect, you go away and sell what you have and present it to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven and come follow me."

The point is that Jesus is clearly giving a conditional statement. If the person wants to be complete, he needs to sell his stuff, give it to the poor and follow Jesus. Thus, Jesus is essentially sending the person on his way if he is not willing to meet the conditions of the cost of following him. We see this as a continual theme throughout Matthew's Gospel: Matt 4:19, 8:22, 9:9, 10:38, 19:21. The young man went away sad clearly because he felt the cost of what Jesus had to offer was too great.

Anyway, lets not miss the simple point here. The simple point is that Jesus is not being "inclusive" here in the way the other person was using the term. Jesus wasn't a happy-go-lucky Messiah giving warm hugs to everyone that thought he seemed like a good guy. No, he said things that angered people and that made people leave him or unwilling to follow him. It wasn't because he didn't love all people, but because he was very clear that there were certain requirements for discipleship and if someone wasn't willing to meet those requirements, he had nothing to offer them.

aspen said:

We seem to be viewing the term 'inclusive' differently. Jesus reached out to all of the people you have mentioned; like Adam and Eve in the Garden, it was their inability or unwillingness to see past their own shortcomings or sin that kept them from recognizing Jesus's invitation to love.

Jesus looks past our false self, which is the part of us that includes our opinions and habits and tastes; all the things we identitify as 'who we are'. It is those very things that stop us from union with God. In fact, the gospel acknowledges the false self in a story about the Judgment where Jesus declares 'I never knew you' - Jesus chooses to recognize who we truly are; He has no desire to pretend we are the smoke and mirrors we call ourselves. Jesus approaches everyone from His true self - which is why His relationship with His Father is rightly described as 'deep calling out to deep'

We disagree. Sin separates us from God, not God from us.

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Well, I don't know that I agree with you here. It wasn't that Adam was unwilling to see God's love. It was that he sinned and was afraid and God threw him and Eve out of the garden after cursing them. It wasn't like God said, "Adam, I still love you, its gonna be okay" and Adam said, "No way God, I'm too bad...im going to run away now." That is not how the narrative reads.

I am not sure what you are saying about the "I never knew you" passage. I don't think Jesus is saying, I don't recognize this false self you have set up. I think he is saying, "You are a pretender and I have no real relationship with you so depart from me."

This is not a one way street. Yes sin separates us from God. Yet it also separates God from us. The NT teaches that we are alienated from God because of our evil behavior, but it also teaches that the world is under God's wrath and judgment because of sin and evil behaviors. Jesus died to bring reconciliation...which again...is a two way street. Its not just that we were enemies of God, but God also was our enemy.

I Cor. 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

Hebrews 10:13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet.