Why is Christianity so focused on Sin?

[BreadOfLife]

BreadOfLife

Concerning your post #177, save your google lists for someone else.

You don't understand these Scriptures and don't even try to explain them. You just throw them out there, like I am supposed to be so in awe. Your knowledge is 'google'. Just like the knowledge of the Romanists. Let others tell you what to believe.

Do you own a Bible?

Stranger

They're excerpts from an article I wrote on the errors of Protestantism from my blog.

As to your stupid question - I answered that waaaaaay back when you first asked it - so why do you keep asking??

 

[Stranger]

Huh???
There is no "accusation" in my statement. It's a hypothetical (sorry for the big word).

R*E*A*D it again, Einstein:
IF you believe that Jesus was the price and you believe that He is God - THEN you have to come to the conclusion that GOD died.

You argue for the sake of arguing - no matter how asinine your premise . . .

In your post # 82, you said the price of sin is death and that Jesus paid that price. How then are you not saying that God died. Or, are you saying Jesus is not God.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Huh???
There is no "accusation" in my statement. It's a hypothetical (sorry for the big word).

R*E*A*D it again, Einstein:
IF you believe that Jesus was the price and you believe that He is God - THEN you have to come to the conclusion that GOD died.

You argue for the sake of arguing - no matter how asinine your premise . . .

In your post #82 you said the price of sin is death and that Jesus paid the price. How then are you not saying that God died? Or, are you saying that Jesus is not God?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

They're excerpts from an article I wrote on the errors of Protestantism from my blog.

As to your stupid question - I answered that waaaaaay back when you first asked it - so why do you keep asking??

Because your the 'google meister'. Sorry if I'm not impressed.

I keep asking because you act like someone who doesn't own a Bible. You act like someone who has someone that tells you what you believe. Typical of the Roman Church. So, which is it? Which lie do you want me to believe?

Stranger

 

[Wormwood]

Bible doesnt say Jesus was God

Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth
God wasnt made flesh, His word was

And teh pharisses didnt accuse Jesus of being God they accused him of

Joh_5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

Php_2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Why do you want God to die????

I know explaining these Scriptures will make no difference since you fancy your own word to be superior to Scripture. However, I'll make a response for the sake of others reading.

You said, "God wasn't made flesh, the Word was." Perhaps you need you read verse 1 again. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God." emphasis mine

Yes, the Pharisees accused Jesus of making himself equal with God. Since, by definition, there is nothing greater than God, to make one's self equal with God is to make one's self God. This outrage is in the context of Jesus declaring himself to be "I am." Which clearly is a reference to the name God gave himself to Moses.

As for Phil 2:6, the word being used here for "robbery" is "harpagmo." The word means "to seize with force." The point here is that since he was truly the same "form" as God, his claim on equality with God would not have been considered "robbery" or something forcefully taken. It was his right, but he surrendered it in order to die on our behalf. That is the point. It is a claim of divinity in the clearest sense.

Your "why do you want God to die" comment is manipulative and doesn't deserve a response.

 

[mjrhealth]

I know explaining these Scriptures will make no difference since you fancy your own word to be superior to Scripture. However, I'll make a response for the sake of others reading.

You said, "God wasn't made flesh, the Word was." Perhaps you need you read verse 1 again. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God." emphasis mine

Yes, the Pharisees accused Jesus of making himself equal with God. Since, by definition, there is nothing greater than God, to make one's self equal with God is to make one's self God. This outrage is in the context of Jesus declaring himself to be "I am." Which clearly is a reference to the name God gave himself to Moses.

As for Phil 2:6, the word being used here for "robbery" is "harpagmo." The word means "to seize with force." The point here is that since he was truly the same "form" as God, his claim on equality with God would not have been considered "robbery" or something forcefully taken. It was his right, but he surrendered it in order to die on our behalf. That is the point. It is a claim of divinity in the clearest sense.

Your "why do you want God to die" comment is manipulative and doesn't deserve a response.

And was not His word with Him in the beginning, its His word that keeps this all together. My son sounds just like me but He is not me, if I gave him teh authorty to sign for me, he would literally be me. God never died on the cross, God cant die, God is spirit.

God has many sons

Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

but the yare not Him

as Jesus said

Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Joh 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

the devil i am sure would love God to die, but that even he himself would no longer exist.

 

[BreadOfLife]

In your post #82 you said the price of sin is death and that Jesus paid the price. How then are you not saying that God died? Or, are you saying that Jesus is not God?

Stranger

Now, you're simply dodging the fact that I caught you in a lie because I never "accused" you of anything.

Jesus IS God. However - He is fully MAN and fully GOD.
According to the ONE, supreme earthly Authority, His Church, this is how it is explained:

Catechism of the Catholic Church
625 Christ's stay in the tomb constitutes the real link between his passible state before Easter and his glorious and risen state today. The same person of the "Living One" can say, "I died, and behold I am alive for evermore":465

God [the Son] did not impede death from separating his soul from his body according to the necessary order of nature, but has reunited them to one another in the Resurrection, so that he himself might be, in his person, the meeting point for death and life, by arresting in himself the decomposition of nature produced by death and so becoming the source of reunion for the separated parts.466

626 Since the "Author of life" who was killed 467 is the same "living one [who has] risen",468 the divine person of the Son of God necessarily continued to possess his human soul and body, separated from each other by death:

By the fact that at Christ's death his soul was separated from his flesh, his one person is not itself divided into two persons; for the human body and soul of Christ have existed in the same way from the beginning of his earthly existence, in the divine person of the Word; and in death, although separated from each other, both remained with one and the same person of the Word.469

Jesus, the man died in the flesh. God didn't die. If God can die - we would have no hope.

Since sin came into the world through a man - it would have to be reconciled by the one perfect man, Jesus Christ (Rom. 5:17).
A perfect human victim had to be sacrificed in order to propitiate the sins of mankind. Since there has never been a perfect human being other than Jesus- it HAD to be him.

It is important to realize this and not to spread false doctrine.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Because your the 'google meister'. Sorry if I'm not impressed.

I keep asking because you act like someone who doesn't own a Bible. You act like someone who has someone that tells you what you believe. Typical of the Roman Church. So, which is it? Which lie do you want me to believe?

Stranger

That's as stupid and reckless as asking an innocent married man, "Have you stopped cheating on your wife?"
YOU act like someone who indeed, owns a Bible but is extremely confused by it because you've rejected the ONLY Authority Jesus left us with . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

According to the ONE, supreme earthly Authority, His Church, this is how it is explained:

You mean Your CHurch, and than you quote your churches doctrines. Well done.

Since sin came into the world through a man - it would have to be reconciled by the one perfect man, Jesus Christ (Rom. 5:17).
A perfect human victim had to be sacrificed in order to propitiate the sins of mankind. Since there has never been a perfect human being other than Jesus- it HAD to be him.

No one is questioning that.

God didnt die, His word did.

Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Doesnt say God was made flesh.

 

[Stranger]

Now, you're simply dodging the fact that I caught you in a lie because I never "accused" you of anything.

Jesus IS God. However - He is fully MAN and fully GOD.
According to the ONE, supreme earthly Authority, His Church, this is how it is explained:

Catechism of the Catholic Church
625 Christ's stay in the tomb constitutes the real link between his passible state before Easter and his glorious and risen state today. The same person of the "Living One" can say, "I died, and behold I am alive for evermore":465

God [the Son] did not impede death from separating his soul from his body according to the necessary order of nature, but has reunited them to one another in the Resurrection, so that he himself might be, in his person, the meeting point for death and life, by arresting in himself the decomposition of nature produced by death and so becoming the source of reunion for the separated parts.466

626 Since the "Author of life" who was killed 467 is the same "living one [who has] risen",468 the divine person of the Son of God necessarily continued to possess his human soul and body, separated from each other by death:

By the fact that at Christ's death his soul was separated from his flesh, his one person is not itself divided into two persons; for the human body and soul of Christ have existed in the same way from the beginning of his earthly existence, in the divine person of the Word; and in death, although separated from each other, both remained with one and the same person of the Word.469

Jesus, the man died in the flesh. God didn't die. If God can die - we would have no hope.

Since sin came into the world through a man - it would have to be reconciled by the one perfect man, Jesus Christ (Rom. 5:17).
A perfect human victim had to be sacrificed in order to propitiate the sins of mankind. Since there has never been a perfect human being other than Jesus- it HAD to be him.

It is important to realize this and not to spread false doctrine.

So, if Jesus was the perfect human being and God, how did God not die? Are you saying Jesus the man is not God?

Stanger

 

[Stranger]

That's as stupid and reckless as asking an innocent married man, "Have you stopped cheating on your wife?"
YOU act like someone who indeed, owns a Bible but is extremely confused by it because you've rejected the ONLY Authority Jesus left us with . . .

But, you assume your innocensce. Nice try. So, do you own a Bible? Which one?

I haven't rejected the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit. Where did you get that from?

Stranger

 

[Wormwood]

And was not His word with Him in the beginning, its His word that keeps this all together. My son sounds just like me but He is not me, if I gave him teh authorty to sign for me, he would literally be me. God never died on the cross, God cant die, God is spirit.

"...and the Word was God."

No, your son would not "literally" be you.

the devil i am sure would love God to die, but that even he himself would no longer exist.

No one here wants God to die. This is your own statement, not mine. Id appreciate it if you respond to the comments I actually make if you want to engage in a meaningful discussion. Otherwise, it just comes across as spiteful rhetoric. I am not interested in the latter.

 

[mjrhealth]

No one here wants God to die. This is your own statement, not mine. Id appreciate it if you respond to the comments I actually make if you want to engage in a meaningful discussion. Otherwise, it just comes across as spiteful rhetoric. I am not interested in the latter.

No than why is it the insist He did. if god died thatn haow can Jesus make teh statement, "my God my God why has thou forsaken me." How can God be seperated from God ,and how can God forsake God??

For all this time

Mar 15:33 And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.

Jesus the son was seperated from God, the father, because He , Jesus had become sin for us, so that not even God teh father could look at Him. Again why is it christianity needs God to die?? Was not Jesus , the Son enough...??

 

[Wormwood]

No than why is it the insist He did. if god died thatn haow can Jesus make teh statement, "my God my God why has thou forsaken me." How can God be seperated from God ,and how can God forsake God??

For all this time

Mar 15:33 And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour.

Jesus the son was seperated from God, the father, because He , Jesus had become sin for us, so that not even God teh father could look at Him. Again why is it christianity needs God to die?? Was not Jesus , the Son enough...??

You need to look back at my comment about the death of Jesus and the Trinity. You are creating an argument out of thin air.

 

[mjrhealth]

Soory went back and erad. Guess I got confused as to where you where coming from. I think mine just reflects yours.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So, if Jesus was the perfect human being and God, how did God not die? Are you saying Jesus the man is not God?

Stanger

As the Catechism explains, Jesus died in his flesh.
You can't kill God - but you CAN kill the only perfect human being who ever lived.

 

[BreadOfLife]

But, you assume your innocensce. Nice try. So, do you own a Bible? Which one?

I haven't rejected the Scriptures and the Holy Spirit. Where did you get that from?

Stranger

If you had ever bothered to read the posts - I answered that about 100 posts ago.
I own several Bible and several translations.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You mean Your CHurch, and than you quote your churches doctrines. Well done.

No one is questioning that.

God didnt die, His word did.

Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Doesnt say God was made flesh.

God's Word didn't die.
The perfect human being that is Jesus died. The Word that is Jesus has ALWAYS existed and ALWAYS will.

To kill God - they would had to have killed His entire hypostasis.
They didn't. because they can't.

And whether YOU want to accept it or not - the Catholic Church is the ONLY Church that can trace itself back to the Apostles in an unbroken line of Succession.
No Protestant sect can make that claim - nor can YOUR cult with it's "generals" that came to be in 1980.

 

[Stranger]

As the Catechism explains, Jesus died in his flesh.
You can't kill God - but you CAN kill the only perfect human being who ever lived.

Again, because you didn't answer, are you saying that Jesus the man is not God?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

If you had ever bothered to read the posts - I answered that about 100 posts ago.
I own several Bible and several translations.

Really. Sorry for my mistake. What post was that?

Why do you, as a Romanist, own several Bibles? Is the 'Roman Bible' lacking somewhere?

Stranger