CATHOLIC BASHING THREAD TITLES

BreadOfLife said:

God id NOT the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33). If one sect is out of step with the next - it is because of the traditions and precepts of flawed and prideful MEN - not God. As Paul writes:

Eph. 4:4-6
There is ONE BODY and ONE SPIRIT, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Phil. 2:2
Complete my joy by being of the SAME MIND, having the SAME LOVE, being in full accord and of ONE MIND.

This cannot be said of the tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering sects of Protestantism.
With that in mind - WHO is the "US" you mentioned above?

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The precepts of prideful men who follow the errors in the deceitful teachings in Roman Catholicism as defined by the catechism.

epostle1 said:

Yea, like you showed us in Luke 12:51
Division is anathema in the NT. Do you need proof texts?
That's a lovely passage, but could you be more irrelevant?

No, you have gone sideways, like you did with Luke 12:51

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Luke 12:51KJV
51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

Division on earth?

The Pope Is Not The "Vicar" Of Christ On earth, the Catholic Church is not the sole Authority for the "Authentic" Interpretation Of scripture!

Faith And Faith Alone!

epostle1 said:

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"Loving Morality"?

Looks like Pinocchio's Nose Is Growing Again!

Don't forget the homosexual drug driven orgies in the Vatican, and homosexual child molestation at the highest levels, Cardinal "George Pell"?

It Appears You Desire To Keep Your Eyes Closed To Truth!

NewYorkPost

Vatican cops bust drug-fueled gay orgy at home of cardinal’s aide
By Tamar Lapin

July 5, 2017 | 9:59am

Pope Francis, surrounded by cardinals, leads a consistory at St. Peter's Basilica.Getty Images
Vatican police raided a drug-fueled gay-sex party at an apartment belonging to an aide of one of Pope Francis’ key advisers, according to a new report.

The Holy Father is “enraged,” since the home, inhabited by Francesco Cardinal Coccopalmerio’s secretary, belongs to the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith — the arm charged with tackling clerical sex abuse, the Italian paper Il Fatto Quotidiano reported.

Cops raided the apartment in late June after neighbors voiced concern about multiple people acting strangely while streaming in and out of the residence, the newspaper reported Wednesday.

Once police were inside the apartment, they said they found multiple men engaged in rampant drug use and homosexual activity.

They then arrested the priest — an aide to one of Pope Francis’ key advisers — after taking him to a clinic to detox from the drugs he’d ingested.

The scandal comes just a week after the Vatican was rocked by sex-abuse allegations against high-ranking church official George Cardinal Pell.

Pell was charged with multiple counts of historical sexual assault offenses by Australian police.

The cardinal, who served as Pope Francis’ chief financial adviser and is Australia’s most senior Catholic, is the highest-ranking Vatican official ever to be charged in the church’s sexual- abuse scandals.

epostle1 said:

Jesus is not talking about denominational, theological or interpretational divisions. He is talking about divisions within a Jewish family where some become Christians and the others don't.

Luke 12:51 Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; 52 for henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three; 53 they will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.​

So Catholics are too sinful to be Christians, is that what you are saying?
There is no boasting exclusivity with God. Where does that fallacy come from? It seems you want to add cement to the wall of division with an "us v.s. them" mentality.
If the unity of Christians was meant to convince the world that Jesus was sent by God, what does the ever-increasing fragmentation of Protestantism in general say to the world?

Since each “bible-only” Christian must admit that his or her interpretation is fallible, how can they in good conscience call anything heresy or bind another Christian to a particular belief? You can't. Making excuses and inventing the "Invisible Church" theory isn't working.
The only thing you guys can agree on is how wrong we are.
We have a whole commission dedicated to promoting Christian unity. Where is yours?

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Christian unity comes in recognizing the Catholic Pope Is a human man and not infalliable, he is not the "Vicar" Of Christ On earth!

The Christian Church does not find It's foundation in Romes Saint Peter's Basilica that was built by a Roman Emperor named Constatine, that established the "State Church" in 322AD, before the council of Nicea.

Constatine invited 1800 Bishops to the Nicean Council 325Ad, all expenses paid, only 300 showed up for the party.

You got it, the true Church was founded outside of Constatines "State Church"!

The majority 1500 Bishops or 80% that didn't attend represents the truth of the Christian Church!

You think Rome has a handle on Christianity?

Wake up to reality, the 1500 or 80% has the foundation of true Christianity, while Rome's "State Church" persecuted the true Christian Church!

Truth7t7 said:

The majority 1500 Bishops or 80% that didn't attend represents the truth of the Christian Church!

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And which of those are you in communion with?

Peace!

Truth7t7 said:

The precepts of prideful men who follow the errors in the deceitful teachings in Roman Catholicism as defined by the catechism.

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Which doesn't answer the question I asked - but simply dances around it . . .

ScottA said:

You have been shown already. But you do not see it, because you are blinded by prejudice and hatred.

And you are wrong. When you have polar opposites, someone is not right and someone wrong - God is not mocked! No, someone is right and someone is left:

"Then God said, '“Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness'... So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

And, now again, I have gone higher than your thoughts.

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No - when you have polar opposite doctrinal teachings -= there HAS to be one that is wrong.
God is NOT an idiot who can be fooled by human thinking.

The short list of confused and opposite Protestant doctrines is a perfect example of this:
Some Protestant denominations believe in baptismal regeneration, while others do not.
Some believe in soul-sleep, while others do not.
Some believe in the total depravity of man, while others do not.
Some believe in the Holy Trinity, while others do not.
Some believe in doctrine of “once saved, always saved”, while others do not.
Some believe in a pre-tribulation “Rapture”, while others do not.
Some believe that only those who were predestined will make it to heaven, while others do not.
Some believe that some were predestined for hell, while others do not.
Some believe in a woman’s right to choose abortion, while others do not.
Some believe that practicing homosexuality is a sin, while others do not.
Most believe in contraception, while others do not – and the list goes on.

For example - if ONE sect believes in the Trinity and the other doesn't - the latter is wrong.
According to YOU, however, they aren't - they're just "left". That is perverse human thinking . . .

epostle1 said:

You keep repeating this lunacy. There were not 1800 bishops in the entire world in 325 AD. You have been told this several times.

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1800 Bishops were invited, roughly 300 showed up. The true Christian Church survived outside of Constatines new "State Church" in Rome's St. Peter's Basilica.

The true Christian Church has been historically persecuted by this "State Church"

New World Encyclopedia: First Council Of Nicaea

Attendees
Emperor Constantine had invited all 1800 bishops of the Christian church (about 1000 in the east and 800 in the west), but a lesser and unknown number attended. Eusebius of Caesarea counted 250,[5] Athanasius of Alexandria counted 318,[6] and Eustathius of Antioch counted 270[7] (all three were present at the council). Later, Socrates Scholasticus recorded more than 300,[8] and Evagrius,[9]Hilarius,[10] Saint Jerome[11] and Rufinus recorded 318.

The participating bishops were given free travel to and from their episcopal sees to the council, as well as lodging. These bishops did not travel alone; each one had permission to bring with him two priests and three deacons; so the total number of attendees would have been above 1500. Eusebius speaks of an almost innumerable host of accompanying priests, deacons and acolytes.

epostle1 said:

The catechism as abused by Matt Slick is not the catechism, but paragraphs taken out of context using false dichotomy tactics. He does not use the catechism properly, only as weapons to attack and mock.

You don't know what the catechism is for, or where it came from, or its proper use, and you don't care. But you make ridiculous, outrageous dogmatic statements based on ignorance. Super-pope Matt Slick has you where he wants you.

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Dictator Benito Mussolini Made The Vatican Nation, the smallest refuge "Nation" in the world with only 800 acres, where pedophile protector "Cardinal Bernard Law" ran to from the American authorities, having 400 cases of sexual abuse against him. Bernard Law never stood trial in the USA, He Was Protected by Pope John Paul And the Vatican State.

"The Roman Catholic "Church State"!

Wikipedia: Lateran Treaty (Italian: Patti Lateranensi; Latin: Pacta Lateranensia) was one of the Lateran Pacts of 1929 or Lateran Accords, agreements made in 1929 between the Kingdom of Italy and the Holy See, settling the "Roman Question". They are named after the Lateran Palace, where they were signed on 11 February 1929. The Italian parliament ratified them on 7 June 1929. It recognized Vatican City as an independent state, with the Italian government, at the time led by Prime Minister Benito Mussolini, agreeing to give the Roman Catholic Church financial compensation for the loss of the Papal States.[1] In 1947, the Lateran Treaty was recognized in the Constitution of Italy[2] as regulating the relations between the State and the Catholic Church.

BreadOfLife said:

God id NOT the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33). If one sect is out of step with the next - it is because of the traditions and precepts of flawed and prideful MEN - not God. As Paul writes:

Eph. 4:4-6
There is ONE BODY and ONE SPIRIT, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Phil. 2:2
Complete my joy by being of the SAME MIND, having the SAME LOVE, being in full accord and of ONE MIND.

This cannot be said of the tens of thousands of perpetually-splintering sects of Protestantism.
With that in mind - WHO is the "US" you mentioned above?

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Understood....

MY "problem" is that the singular, individual Catholic denomination agrees with NONE, is in doctrinal unity with NONE. I realize the individualism of the RCC is denominational (one of thousands) but it still is in unity and agreement with no other; as a denomination, it is no better (and often much worse) than any other denomination we might name - since there is not any denomination with less unity/agreement than the RCC has simply because it is not possible to have unity with LESS than none.

Now, that's NOT to indicate that the RCC is horrible (I esteem much in it) only that it lacks full doctrinal agreement with any other than with it itself exclusively (and even that is very limited) - a comment that applies to many (but not all) other denominations, too.

But let's see if we can get back to the issue here?


Blessings!


Josiah

epostle1 said:

No Scott. You are not being accountable for your hatchet job on you did with Luke 12:51. We are the bad guys in the flesh and you are the good guys in spirit and you accuse me of lashing out?

Peter didn't follow Jesus? He gave Peter nothing to do? Your clarity is dubious.​

This is the kind of insulting Catholic bashing that locks threads. You call it "the spirit of God", I call it blind prejudice. flesh/spirit is a standard Calvinistic false dichotomy whether you are aware of it or not. Yet you lecture me about hate.
No, I got that idea from John 17:21, and you are avoiding the question. Here it is again:
If the unity of Christians was meant to convince the world that Jesus was sent by God, what does the ever-increasing fragmentation of Protestantism in general say to the world?

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This is so difficult, because your emotions have already gotten the best of you. If we could just have a rational conversation...

1. My use of the scriptures is not a "hatched job", but an explanation...one that you simply find grossly objectionable because you are the child of a different school of thought. But it is not a difference of interpretation - that is the problem. It's not a matter of you reading the passage one way and me reading it another way. It is a matter of reading the passage and yielding to the means sighted by Jesus - which was not by word [at all], but by revelation from the "Father who is in heaven." By this, therefore, we do not listen to our father in the world, but our Father who is in heaven.
2. So...it is not lashing out, but a warning. If one follows Peter and one follows Jesus, who is right? The Father (or Jesus) did not say, "This is Peter, hear him." But, no, He said, "This is my Son, hear Him." The apostle Paul had this same conversation with the Corinthians, who were following different men. But men are not "the Way." Peter followed Jesus...and so should we - but only Him. Therefore, do as Peter did. You have your example - but he is not the Christ, he is only a follower of Christ. So, I will say it again - it is not an insult or bashing, but a warning from a brother.
3. The flesh being against the spirit is not a false dichotomy, it is the truth from God. Nothing personal, unless you want to call warning a brother a personal attack. In which case, you need to examine yourself. But if you think we should stop warning you, you have also misread us - for this is the love of Christ of which there is no end.
4. I already told you "the unity of Christians" is not "meant to convince the world that Jesus was sent by God." This is the false dichotomy. To love one another only shows that we are His disciples. But do you love followers of Christ who are not followers of Peter? This you need to ask yourself...but continuing on: Our job is not to love in order "to convince the world", our job is to go forth and make disciples of all men...but disciples of Who? Of Peter, or of Jesus? But you prescribe to a belief that was Jesus in the world, and have many successors making the same claims for centuries. And you cannot even correctly state what the great commission is, saying it is "convince the world", while conviction was never our part.

epostle1 said:

I have another question for you to run from:
Hebrews 13:17 "Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you."
What is the expiration date of this verse?

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Here you go again violating your own idea that we are "to convince the world" by showing love for one another, by goading me as if I would just "run" from your question.

There is no expiration date...but there is a qualifying statement that proceeds it, which you have apparently not considered:
"Remember those who rule over you, who have spoken the word of God to you, whose faith follow, considering the outcome of their conduct."

...So...before we are to "obey our leaders and submit to their authority", we are to consider their conduct, that they have spoken the word of God. Which Peter did, as it was confirmed by Jesus. But the church fathers did not, following a man rather than the word from the Father. Meaning we are not to obey them, nor submit to their authority.

epostle1 said:

How Catholic of you.

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Oh yeah!

epostle1 said:

Hate? Where? A low tolerance for blind prejudice and false Christian dualism is not hate.

Matthew 25:40 And the king will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.’

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It is not "blind prejudice and false Christian dualism" to warn a brother - that is love.

epostle1 said:

If the Catholic Church is a denomination, then you should be able to pinpoint the year it was founded, and Who founded it. Cite scholarly sources please.

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If the RCC is not a denomination, then each parish is entirely autonomous and independent... they share NOTHING: no common name, no common governance, no common catechism, no common ministry; each parish ENTIRELY independent. I was a Catholic for years, and I can tell you, there is no denomination that is MORE of a denomination than the RCC.

The CC didn't separate from anybody.

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Nor did the LCMS or WELS or LDS or UCC or most other denominations. But of course, the Orthodox would insist the RCC separated from it (but the RCC insists it is the other way around).

The CC has all the essential truths today as she did in the first century

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There was no RC Denomination in the first century. But if you could show me an Official Catechism of the distinctive RC Denomination from the First Century and show me that every word, every letter is IDENTICAL to my 1994 edition -nothing different, nothing added, the identical 2,865 points - then I'll yield that its teachings haven't changed, but you can't do that and that would only prove my point - that it's a denomination (non-denom churches don't have a Catechism for the denomination).


Now what any of this has to do with the OP is beyond me....

And how anything you posted shows that the RCC has a unity of NONE I just don't know. Maybe you could list for all all the non-Catholic denominations that agree with the RCC on all 2,865 points exactly as worded in my 1994 edition of the Catholic Catechism - and thus show the churches it has unity with, but we both know: that's zero. The MOST it has is current, official, denominational unity with ITSELF EXCLUSIVELY - and there is no denomination on the planet that can't say AT LEAST that much (and many, much more). Does that make the RC Denomination "bad?" Not necessarily (there are other denominations in the same boat), it just makes your comment wrong.


Back to the topic....


- Josiah

BreadOfLife said:

No - when you have polar opposite doctrinal teachings -= there HAS to be one that is wrong.
God is NOT an idiot who can be fooled by human thinking.

The short list of confused and opposite Protestant doctrines is a perfect example of this:
Some Protestant denominations believe in baptismal regeneration, while others do not.
Some believe in soul-sleep, while others do not.
Some believe in the total depravity of man, while others do not.
Some believe in the Holy Trinity, while others do not.
Some believe in doctrine of “once saved, always saved”, while others do not.
Some believe in a pre-tribulation “Rapture”, while others do not.
Some believe that only those who were predestined will make it to heaven, while others do not.
Some believe that some were predestined for hell, while others do not.
Some believe in a woman’s right to choose abortion, while others do not.
Some believe that practicing homosexuality is a sin, while others do not.
Most believe in contraception, while others do not – and the list goes on.

For example - if ONE sect believes in the Trinity and the other doesn't - the latter is wrong.
According to YOU, however, they aren't - they're just "left". That is perverse human thinking . . .

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You have not explained the ways of God, nor the mysteries thereof, but the ways of men.

But I have explained the mystery of God and you have not heard, just as it is written:

‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand; Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’

Apparently, you are not ready. Nonetheless, men do not rule the world, and these things which you trouble yourself over adding to the fighting and division, men have meant for evil, but God has meant for good.

Too bad you are not up to discussing it.