The Current State of Christianity

Small Fish · Aug 21, 2018

Heart2Soul said:
Replying to the OP....the Bible plainly says in the last days evil will wax worse and worse, people will follow the doctrines of men rather that what is taught in His Word, their ears have become hard of hearing and theirs eyes no longer see the truth.....
But rejoice for God is restoring HIS CHURCH.....this will be when you see the unity of faith....all in His timing....prophesies will be fulfilled!

I would like for you to elaborate on these prophecies.

Small Fish · Aug 21, 2018

Heart2Soul said:
Way back in my college days I had a boyfriend that would yell at me this way.....and this was before it became popular with the millennials! Oh it would drive me crazy because I didn't know what GTHUAGAB...…???? and I would never ask him what that was suppose to mean until my curiosity
got the best of me.....that particular one meant "grow the heck up and get a brain" …….

I hope you dumped him

Small Fish · Aug 21, 2018

lforrest said:
You were wrong when you lumped everyone together in the same boat. Salvation is on an individual basis, and many saints go about their lives without drawing attention to themselves. You will not see them canonized or televised, but they follow the will of the Father and he sees all they do.

Their life is in Christ, by Christ, and for Christ.
"For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring.'"
Acts 17:28

The true Church is perfect, so it is not by the Spirit that people condemn her. It is human nature to see the negative and focus on the negative. There are Christians still growing spiritually, and pew warmers, and make believers.
"25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless."
Ephesians 5:25

I'm still looking and can't find the unity even among individuals. As many individuals, so many opinions. How are they unified if you say this. Point them out to me.

I feel that the biggest part of the Christian world is still very much devided on a very basic, fundamental level

Heart2Soul · Aug 21, 2018

Small Fish said:
I hope you dumped him

yes, I definitely dumped him...lol.

Stranger · Aug 21, 2018

Small Fish said:
We find there is so many ideas concerning our spiritual walk with the Lord Jesus Christ. You hardly find two people seeing eye to eye on the majority of what we know as the Word of God. Christianity these days seem more like the confusion of the tower of Babel than the Lighthouse that it suppose to be. How can this be? Is God then the author of confusion? Or have He left us behind in our own wallow?

In Jeremiah 8:20-22 God asked
20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.
21 For the hurt of the daughter of my people am I hurt; I am black; astonishment hath taken hold on me.
22 Is there no balm in Gilead; is there no physician there? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered?

Why is Christianity in such a bad condition? We are the laughing stock of the world. And I don't blame the outsider for shaking his head at the Christian world. The Christians today are a defeated people. They are no different than the outsider, sometimes worse with the additional label of hypocrite. Where is the holiness? Where is the victory? We are a far cry from when the church started on the day of Pentecost in the upper room. The days of Ananias and Sapphira. I wonder who produces more Atheists, the Christians or the unbelievers?

Yet all claims to be saved. We argue and deny the Word, we think we know better. Let's not even mention the disgraces that we find in our churches right up to the leaders. Adultery, greed, homosexuality. Pastors that cheat with congregants wife's, deacons that are married two, three times. The Church used to be pure and Holy. Now look at her. What will Jesus say if He returns today? Where has the standard gone too. Aren't we disgracing His name instead of Glorifying it?

Would it be as He said in Luke 18:8
8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

Are we really ready?

I don't think so.... I believe this is what God thinks of us,
Revelation 3:14-22
14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

There will be no Rapture if there is no unity in faith. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. But as many people I come across, so many people have different Ideas. So is it only me or is there something wrong with this picture? Where have we gone wrong?

Ephisians 4:10-17 Says
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind

This is pretty fundamental and to be honest, it's loud and clear. So, is it the Word of God that is wrong or are we being deceived?

How do you think that you are right? How do we come to that conclusion? Obviously we cannot save ourselves but surely we should have the fruit meet for repentance. Because I don't see it. Am I wrong?

Consider this. It is Jesus Christ that is building His Church. And He has clearly stated that 'the gates of hell shall not prevail against it'. (Matt. 16:18). That doesn't mean the gates of will will not come against it, it means they will, but they will not prevail. What you see as the condition of the Church on the earth, is the Church which is totally engaged in this spiritual warfare.

False teachers, false prophets, false doctrines, divisions, are all part of the Church at war. And remember, all these things were found almost immediately after the birth of the Church. The early church was not free from these things.

Concerning (Luke 18:8) "...Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" The implication here is that Jesus either will not find it on the earth when He returns or it will be so minute that it may as well not be there. I believe this can be said of either the Rapture when the Church is taken out, or of the Second Coming when Jesus returns to the earth to set up the kingdom. Rejection of God and Christ will manifest itself throughout the whole world. The Church is not going to convert the world. Nor are the believers alive during the Tribulation going to convert the world.

When God looked upon the earth in Noah's day, did he find faith on the earth. Just barely...by a thread. Every age ends in the failure of man. Adam and Eve in innocence failed with the fall. Man with a conscience failed with the flood. Human govt. failed with Babel. Man under the promise of God to Abraham failed and so the Law must be given. Man under the Law failed, Jesus is crucified and Israel is cast aside. The visible Church on earth will be so affected by the world that she will become lukewarm and Christ is on the outside calling for the believer to come out to Him. (Rev. 3:14-22)

Concerning (Eph. 4:10-17) 'till we all come into the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man,...", this occurs only when the Church is taken out of here and with Christ. Till then we operate with the spiritual gifts God has given us. Working towards the goal. And that goal is not the conversion of the world. It is the building up of the Body of Christ. And that is Jesus's responsibility. "I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Again, you are just seeing the affects of the constant warfare.

Stranger

Heart2Soul · Aug 21, 2018

Small Fish said:
I would like for you to elaborate on these prophecies.

So as we are approaching the fulfillment of every prophesy in the Bible we can look around us and actually be able to apply that very prophesy as fulfilled or now in progress....as far as evil getting worse yes, the violence in the streets against peaceful protesters, the recent shootings in Chicago killing 12 out of 74 who were shot including children, immorality, hate, persecution of Christians. (We are so blessed to still have freedom to worship Him, I watched on TBN just night before where the militants are attacking Christians and killing them, their children it is horrible the daily terror against them. In on instance the snatched a baby from the mother and they grabbed it by the ankles and started slamming its head onto the hard surface. One of the guests telling her story shared she cried why is God letting this happen? But her mother stopped and said no be joyful for if we lose our life for His sake we gain a better place with Him in heaven...... This is happening in India right now)…...the spirit of anti-Christ has always been around but it has gained so much popularity that people are choosing to believe in their false doctrines and practices.
This Satanic Church had its unveiling in Little Rock Arkansas just this past Thursday.....on the STATE CAPITAL GROUNDS...and they did this in protest of the 10 Commandments being allowed to be displayed....The Anti-Christ spirit is not hiding anymore they are out in view of the public and proud of what they stand for.....abortions...…. The data on abortions displayed on the Worldometers' counter is based on the latest statistics on worldwide abortions published by the World Health Organization (WHO). According to WHO, every year in the world there are an estimated 40-50 million abortions. This corresponds to approximately 125,000 abortions per day....I know this hurts God..as prophesied families are torn apart and we see as it was spoken that father will rise against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother....

2a96d5d6-2bc6-448f-94e5-8074bf49bce9-large16x9_satanic.jpg

Concerning those who have ears but do not hear....
Matthew 13:15 New King James Version (NKJV)
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’

Romans 11:8 New King James Version (NKJV)
8 Just as it is written:
“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”

Now concerning the restoration of His church...Jesus is coming back for the Church He built not man...so this is going to happen......and I should say is happening.

Ephesians Chapter 4
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness

Heart2Soul · Aug 21, 2018

Small Fish said:
I'm still looking and can't find the unity even among individuals. As many individuals, so many opinions. How are they unified if you say this. Point them out to me.

I feel that the biggest part of the Christian world is still very much devided on a very basic, fundamental level

Yes this is definitely a job for the Holy Spirit....for the Spirit of Truth shall come upon us and teach us and guide us into all truth and knowledge of His Word.

VictoryinJesus · Aug 21, 2018

Heart2Soul said:
the spirit of anti-Christ has always been around but it has gained so much popularity that people are choosing to believe in their false doctrines and practices.

You said “it has gained so much popularity”...pleasing self has gained popularity in our “selfie” culture. And the amount of vanity the flesh is being fed...the delusions are growing.

2 Timothy 4:3
[3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

The false doctrine is feeding the flesh and making “a practice” of giving it what it wants. Revelation 14:13
[13] And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

James 4:1-5
[1] From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? [2] Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. [3] Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. [4] Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. [5] Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

Galatians 5:17
[17] For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

brakelite · Aug 21, 2018

I must assume that when we speak of unity, we are believing that Christ's prayer of John17 is for unity between believers. I don't see that. Jesus said to his Father, even as we are one. That means Jesus was asking that we may be united with the Father as Jesus was. I see nothing about being United with one another. Not that such may not happen... But it can only happen as we unite with the Father. It's not about agreeing with one another, its about agreeing with Him.
And in the book of Acts, one may do well to remember that whatever unity the church may have had in that upper room, it wasn't long that such was shattered the moment people joined the church... Issues began to arise over circumcision, etc, even amongst the apostles. But they were united with the Father else there would have been no growth and no new testament for us to read today.

bbyrd009 · Aug 21, 2018

lforrest said:
wadr my brain is full of acronyms so I just ignore the post.

yes, it works on a few levels i guess

Hidden In Him said:
I have this way of remembering what it means and then forgetting it again. With all due respect, I wish he wrote it out, LoL.

Heart2Soul said:
Way back in my college days I had a boyfriend that would yell at me this way.....and this was before it became popular with the millennials! Oh it would drive me crazy because I didn't know what GTHUAGAB...…???? and I would never ask him what that was suppose to mean until my curiosity
got the best of me.....that particular one meant "grow the heck up and get a brain" …….

ha the heck of it is, i'm sure i learned "wadr" on a Christian forum site.

bbyrd009 · Aug 21, 2018

Mjh29 said:
I personally believe that the Bible is preserved by God and kept true in all ages. Doesn't matter who translated what when. i believe that the vast majority of translations of the Word of God are preserved by His Spirit.

and the vv that say otherwise? How do you treat them then?
plus with all due respect you didn't really answer a couple of those questions?
ty

Mjh29 · Aug 21, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
and the vv that say otherwise? How do you treat them then?
plus with all due respect you didn't really answer a couple of those questions?
ty

2 Timothy 3:16a
All Scipture is inspired by God
If my interpretation of other verses disagrees with this plainly stated Scripture, my interpretation is wrong. Facts dont care what you think of them.

bbyrd009 · Aug 21, 2018

Small Fish said:
Another person, another idea. Ok. We can have a look at your opinion sometime.

my opinion is actually the least important part of that post imo, but bam do what you like there

bbyrd009 · Aug 21, 2018

Mjh29 said:
2 Timothy 3:16a
All Scipture is inspired by God
If my interpretation of other verses disagrees with this plainly stated Scripture, my interpretation is wrong. Facts dont care what you think of them.

ah, but i never said that Scripture was not originally inspired by God, so wadr your precious and irrelevant fact is safe ok?
Now, you wanna address the real up there, the rebuttal that has already been made for that or one of the several other points you are shying away from, or are we done

Small Fish · Aug 21, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
my opinion is actually the least important part of that post imo, but bam do what you like there

bbyrd009 · Aug 21, 2018

Small Fish said:

look, i'm not being falsely modest or whatever, i stated 3 or 4 points that you avoided, and one opinion, right.
care to address any of the points?

Then should we come to a more mutual definition of "rock of offense?"

Enoch111 · Aug 21, 2018

brakelite said:
I must assume that when we speak of unity, we are believing that Christ's prayer of John17 is for unity between believers. I don't see that. Jesus said to his Father, even as we are one. That means Jesus was asking that we may be united with the Father as Jesus was. I see nothing about being United with one another.

That would be a rather strange unity if believers were united to the Father and Christ but not to each other! Indeed Scripture says otherwise --
that they may be one, as we are.

So the comparison is between the perfect unity of the Father and the Son and the desire that "they" (the apostles or "the men which thou gavest me out of the world" ) may also be "one" (perfectly united). But this goes beyond the apostles since Paul urges all Christians to maintain "the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace" (Eph 4:3).

Episkopos · Aug 21, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
look, i'm not being falsely modest or whatever, i stated 3 or 4 points that you avoided, and one opinion, right.
care to address any of the points?

Then should we come to a more mutual definition of "rock of offense?"

I'll take this one up. "rock of offense"

Jesus said that He was coming as a thief in the night. Jesus was crucified between 2 thieves.

So then the offense is that Jesus seems to be taking away something we think we have.

For many that will be the taking away of the salvation they presently think they have right now. Jesus is coming as a thief after all.

So then unless we are willing to give it all up for the Lord now..we will lose all we think we are building upon. Unless it is being built on what is exclusively His that is.

Now THAT is offensive...to the flesh.

faithfulness · Aug 21, 2018

Enoch111 said:
That would be a rather strange unity if believers were united to the Father and Christ but not to each other! Indeed Scripture says otherwise --
that they may be one, as we are.

So the comparison is between the perfect unity of the Father and the Son and the desire that "they" (the apostles or "the men which thou gavest me out of the world" ) may also be "one" (perfectly united). But this goes beyond the apostles since Paul urges all Christians to maintain "the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace" (Eph 4:3).

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Koinonia: Christian fellowship or communion, with God or, more commonly, with fellow Christians.

Small Fish · Aug 21, 2018

Episkopos said:
I'll take this on up. "rock of offense"

Jesus said that He was coming as a thief in the night. Jesus was crucified between 2 thieves.

So then the offense is that Jesus seems to be taking away something we think we have.

For many that will be the taking away of the salvation they presently think they have right now. Jesus is coming as a thief after all.

So then unless we are willing to give it all up for the Lord now..we will lose all we think we are building upon. Unless it is being built on what is exclusively His that is.

Now THAT is offensive...to the flesh.

Make sense

The Current State of Christianity

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