Should I be rebaptised?

Lady Crosstalk said:

Yes, we do seem to get diverted at times.

Click to expand...

True....

(Maybe I have been known to be one of the culprits...)

Pearl said:

Ephesians 1:18
I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people,

Click to expand...

My Bible says "that your hearts will be flooded with light" and the previous line makes it clear that it is God who gives spiritual wisdom through His Spirit.

The "Enlightenment" was anything but a Christian movement and it is probably unwise to use that particular word to indicate the granting of spiritual wisdom. My objection to using the word is more a practical objection--that it would lead to confusing gnosticism with Christian orthodoxy.

Hebrews 6:4
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,

Click to expand...

Yes, that is the only place I can recall that word being used in the NT (and it is never used in the OT). I'm not saying that the writer of Hebrews was wrong to use it, just that gnosticism is a pernicious foe of gospel truth and we need to tread carefully around any suggestion that some of us are more "enlightened" than others--that is a major tenet of gnosticism. The Bible text makes clear that a "spiritual pecking order" is not being promoted in the Hebrews 6:4 passage.

tzcho2 said:

Paganism , gnosticism with the priests and priestesses or goddess images to adore, which is why the Rcc latched on to images of Mary creating a RC divine mythology around her that is not written in the scriptures.

Click to expand...

Ummmmmm, can you show me a Catholic doctrine that applies "divinity" to Mary??

Yeah - I didn't think so . . .

Lady Crosstalk said:

Nowhere in the Bible is anyone "enlightened". The term itself conjures up implications of pagan/gnostic thought which is anything but orthodox Christianity. But then, the RCC is full of paganism and gnosticism. The "fish hat" of the priests of the Philistine fish-god, Dagon, is what the RCC calls a "bishop's miter". When viewed from the side, it looks like a gaping fish head. Pagan Babylonian religious texts were brought to the Vatican when Byzantium fell and infected the RCC with even more paganism. Gnosticism is very evident in the rules for the priestly hierarchy which holds the priesthood above the laity. The fact that there is a priesthood at all is evidence of wrong thinking in the RCC. God established the priesthood of ancient Israel--Christians have no such sanction. The pagans have always had "priests". Do we really want to be like them? ALL Christians are to be a part of the "priesthood of all believers" and Jesus said we are all equal.

Click to expand...

As I have schooled you previously - the Bishop's miter (fish hat) is modeled after one of the most ancient CHRISTIAN symbols - the Ichthys:




As for your equally-moronic comment that it's "paganism" that holds a priest above the laity - YOU don't know your Bible very well - DO you??

1 Thess. 5:12
We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and who are OVER YOU in the Lord and who admonish you.

1 Tim. 5:17
Let the elders that RULE WELL be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.


Your posts are filled with such moronic ignorance that I'm embarrassed for you.
Good grief, woman - do your HOMEWORK already . . .

BreadOfLife said:

I realize that being schooled by a Catholic is about the worst kind of insult for you to endure – but you cannot change Scripture. It says what it says – and there’s NOTHING you can do about it.

Back in post #602, I gave you a linguistics lesson straight from Strong’s Greek Concordance – and it states CLEARLY that Paul is calling himself a “Father” to the Corinthians. Here it is again . . .

The Greek word used here is egennēsa (ἐγέννησα), which means “FATHER”:

Morphology: VIAA--1S Strong's: 1080 Transliterated: egennēsa Root:γεννάω
1) of men who fathered children 1a) to be born 1b) to be begotten 1b1) of women giving birth to children 2) metaph. 2a) to engender, cause to arise, excite 2b) in a Jewish sense, of one who brings others over to his way of life, to convert someone 2c) of God making Christ his son 2d) of God making men his sons through faith in Christ's work


Here are some more Biblical examples of men being called “Father” who were NOT actually fathers of these people . . .

“I was a FATHER to the poor, and I searched out the cause of him whom I did not know” (Job 29:16)

Elisha cried out, “My FATHER, my FATHER!” to Elijah as he was carried up to heaven in a whirlwind (2 Kgs. 2:12)

Elisha himself is called a FATHER by the king of Israel (2 Kgs. 6:21).

Jesus said, “Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).

Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).

Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).

Paul wrote to Timothy, “You then, MY SON, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus” (2 Tim. 2:1).

Paul again talks about his being a “FATHER” to Timothy - “But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a FATHER he has served with me in the gospel” (Phil. 2:22).

Paul wrote, “I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose FATHER I have become in my imprisonment” (Philem. 10).

You LOSE this argument because of your blind hatred of the Catholic Church and your refusal to understand the Gospel.

Click to expand...

Indeed, Scripture says what it says.

(1 Cor. 4:15) speaks to Paul, in Christ, in giving the Gospel, has begotten the believers. Paul is not the one who is the father. The Father is the one doing the begotten. The Father is God, not Paul. Paul is faithful in giving he Gospel.

Those of Israel do have Abraham as their father, as his seed is passed down to them.

'As a son with a father' in (Phil. 2:22) is nothing but an expression. Onesimus is in the same conditon as the Corinthians in (1 Cor. 4:15).

I do not hate the Catholic Church. I do not hate the Roman Church. I hate those like yourself who want to rule over the believers in the Catholic Church. I hate the papacy and it's whole charade. Kiss the foot. Kiss the ring. Kiss...whatever.

When did you become born-again? Have you accepted Christ as your Lord and Saviour? Why do you not follow Paul's Gospel when you make such a fuss over (1 Cor. 4:15)?


Stranger

BreadOfLife said:

As I have schooled you previously - the Bishop's miter (fish hat) is modeled after one of the most ancient CHRISTIAN symbols - the Ichthys:

Click to expand...

As for your equally-moronic comment that it's "paganism" that holds a priest above the laity - YOU don't know your Bible very well - DO you??

Click to expand...

Nice try--I'm not buying it. The bishop's miter does not look like that. As for not knowing my Bible very well--I'd say that I know it better than you do. (Of course, that's not very difficult, it seems.)

1 Thess. 5:12
We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and who are OVER YOU in the Lord and who admonish you.

Click to expand...

Must you use color, enlarged type and bolding? It is obnoxious (but then, I guess we should consider the source). I took you off of "ignore" but I might have to put you back on as I can only stand a certain amount of rudeness. In any case, my Bible (the NLT) says "those who are laboring among you and give you spiritual advice." No priestly hierarchy in that. Besides, Jesus said to not even allow anyone to call you "rabbi" because we have one teacher that we are all equal as brothers and sisters. (Matthew 23:8) You would probably get to better know what the Bible teaches if you would switch to a more dynamic translation. What version are you using?

1 Tim. 5:17
Let the elders that RULE WELL be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

Click to expand...

Well that translation is convenient for you. But, here's what my plain language version says: "Elders who do their work well should be respected and paid well, especially those who work hard at both preaching and teaching." No priestly hierarchy there either.

Your posts are filled with such moronic ignorance that I'm embarrassed for you.
Good grief, woman - do your HOMEWORK already . . .

Click to expand...

Same to ya' bud. By the way, it has always been my experience that those who insist on calling others "ignorant" and "morons" are definitely in that category themselves.

BreadOfLife said:

Your posts are filled with such moronic ignorance that I'm embarrassed for you.
Good grief, woman - do your HOMEWORK already . . .

Click to expand...

You should be ashamed of your arrogant, egotistical posts- but you aren't and it's tragic for you really, but , as always thanks for being a great deterrent against joining the Mary cult /counterfeit religion of the RCC. You have provided great evidence in your continual mishandling of scripture how the rcc has gone spiritually off the rails & away from the authority of God's word & holds a deep hatred for those who refuse to submit to the authority of the Roman catholic church. It is how the rcc created so many Christian martyrs.

Pearl said:

Have you ever seen pictures of the Vatican audience room? So weird!

The Dark Secrets Behind The Pope’s Audience Hall (It’s a Giant Reptilian)

Click to expand...

Thanks Pearl , hadn't seen anything on this, I'll look into it. It Looks like a serpent.

Pearl said:

Have you ever seen pictures of the Vatican audience room? So weird!

The Dark Secrets Behind The Pope’s Audience Hall (It’s a Giant Reptilian)

Click to expand...

Yes--very creepy.

Pearl said:

It does. It's worth reading the link.

Click to expand...

Lady Crosstalk said:

Yes--very creepy.

Click to expand...

The serpent theme-- it explains the animosity in the rcc towards the Christians who refuse to submit to it's authority.

tzcho2 said:

You should be ashamed of your arrogant, egotistical posts- but you aren't and it's tragic for you really, but , as always thanks for being a great deterrent against joining the Mary cult /counterfeit religion of the RCC. You have provided great evidence in your continual mishandling of scripture how the rcc has gone spiritually off the rails & away from the authority of God's word & holds a deep hatred for those who refuse to submit to the authority of the Roman catholic church. It is how the rcc created so many Christian martyrs.

Click to expand...

Yet another post from you that's heavy on accusations by completely impotent on substance.
How about providing some actual evidence for your claims instead of the same, tired old rubbish??

At LEAST your fellow anti-Catholics like @Stranger and @Lady Crosstalk TRY to bring some evidence to the table - twisted and ignorant as it may be - at least it's something. YOU offer nothing in the way of any proof . . .

BreadOfLife said:

Yet another post from you that's heavy on accusations by completely impotent on substance.
How about providing some actual evidence for your claims instead of the same, tired old rubbish??

At LEAST your fellow anti-Catholics like @Stranger and @Lady Crosstalk TRY to bring some evidence to the table - twisted and ignorant as it may be - at least it's something. YOU offer nothing in the way of any proof . . .

Click to expand...

I don't need to repost what my brothers & sisters in CHRIST have Already posted to you--see we in Christ are in agreement.
What you don't get is there is several of us have all been UNIFIED in Christ in our replies to you.
But Protestant Christians being unified in agreement in Christian theology, doctrines and the handling of Scriptures is INVISIBLE to you , because it goes against all your erroneous FALSE beliefs about Protestantism.

BreadOfLife said:

Yet another post from you that's heavy on accusations by completely impotent on substance.
How about providing some actual evidence for your claims instead of the same, tired old rubbish??

At LEAST your fellow anti-Catholics like @Stranger and @Lady Crosstalk TRY to bring some evidence to the table - twisted and ignorant as it may be - at least it's something. YOU offer nothing in the way of any proof . . .

Click to expand...

....and an ill -wind blows...

Lady Crosstalk said:

Nice try--I'm not buying it. The bishop's miter does not look like that. As for not knowing my Bible very well--I'd say that I know it better than you do. (Of course, that's not very difficult, it seems.)

Must you use color, enlarged type and bolding? It is obnoxious (but then, I guess we should consider the source). I took you off of "ignore" but I might have to put you back on as I can only stand a certain amount of rudeness. In any case, my Bible (the NLT) says "those who are laboring among you and give you spiritual advice." No priestly hierarchy in that. Besides, Jesus said to not even allow anyone to call you "rabbi" because we have one teacher that we are all equal as brothers and sisters. (Matthew 23:8) You would probably get to better know what the Bible teaches if you would switch to a more dynamic translation. What version are you using?

Well that translation is convenient for you. But, here's what my plain language version says: "Elders who do their work well should be respected and paid well, especially those who work hard at both preaching and teaching." No priestly hierarchy there either.

Same to ya' bud. By the way, it has always been my experience that those who insist on calling others "ignorant" and "morons" are definitely in that category themselves.

Click to expand...

Formatting, huh??
When people start whining about the way another is formatting their posts - it usually means they have run OUT of useful things to say . . .

As for the Bishop's miter - it doesn't matter to me if you "buy it" or not. That's that it is based on - the ancient Christian symbol the "Ichthys" and that's a documented fact. I know you're not big on those . . .

Now - let's move onto your woefully-ignorant Biblical interpretations.
In Matt. 23:8-9, was Jesus telling us that we can’t call certain people "fathers" or “teachers” when they may actually be fathers or teachers? NOPE. He is telling us that no man is to be considered father above our Father in heaven and no person is to be considered teacher above our Teacher in heaven.

Jesus was speaking about the Scribes and Pharisees who exalted themselves before all: “They love places of honor at banquets, seats of honor in synagogues, greetings in marketplaces, and the salutation 'Rabbi.” (Matt 23:6-7)

Consider the following passages:
Jesus said, “Your FATHER Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).
St. Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).
St. Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).
For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).
"For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a TEACHER of the Gentiles in faith and truth" (1 Tim. 2:7).
"For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and TEACHER" (2 Tim. 1:11).
"God has appointed in the church first Apostles, second prophets, third TEACHERS" (1 Cor. 12:28).

As for 1 Thess. 5:12 - it says "OVER YOU" in the Lord when it talks about the clergy.
The Greek word used here is προΐστημι (proistamenous), and it is defined as:

Strong's Greek Concordance
Morphology: VPPMAM-P Strong's: 4291 Transliterated: proistamenous Root: προΐστημι
1) to set or place before
1a) to set over
1b) to be over, to superintend, preside over

Finally - I am once again amused by yet another anti-Catholic who finds it "rude" when they are put in their place and schooled by a Catholic. Shamed, yes - but it's not "rude" . . .

tzcho2 said:

I don't need to repost what my brothers & sisters in CHRIST have Already posted to you--see we in Christ are in agreement.
What you don't get is there is several of us have all been UNIFIED in Christ in our replies to you.
But Protestant Christians being unified in agreement in Christian theology, doctrines and the handling of Scriptures is INVISIBLE to you , because it goes against all your erroneous FALSE beliefs about Protestantism.

Click to expand...

In other words - all YOU'VE done is ride on their coat tails.

Here's a little advice: If you're going to ride on somebody's coat tails against the Catholic Church - make SURE they're not as woefully-ignorant about the Catholic Church as YOU are . . .

BreadOfLife said:

In other words - all YOU'VE done is ride on their coat tails.

Here's a little advice: If you're going to ride on somebody's coat tails against the Catholic Church - make SURE they're not as woefully-ignorant about the Catholic Church as YOU are . . .

Click to expand...

more wind....

Stranger said:

Indeed, Scripture says what it says.

(1 Cor. 4:15) speaks to Paul, in Christ, in giving the Gospel, has begotten the believers. Paul is not the one who is the father. The Father is the one doing the begotten. The Father is God, not Paul. Paul is faithful in giving he Gospel.

Those of Israel do have Abraham as their father, as his seed is passed down to them.

'As a son with a father' in (Phil. 2:22) is nothing but an expression. Onesimus is in the same conditon as the Corinthians in (1 Cor. 4:15).

I do not hate the Catholic Church. I do not hate the Roman Church. I hate those like yourself who want to rule over the believers in the Catholic Church. I hate the papacy and it's whole charade. Kiss the foot. Kiss the ring. Kiss...whatever.

When did you become born-again? Have you accepted Christ as your Lord and Saviour? Why do you not follow Paul's Gospel when you make such a fuss over (1 Cor. 4:15)?

Stranger

Click to expand...

You not only hate the Catholic Church - you hate the Word of God.

These last several attempts of yours twist the meaning of Paul's word are pathetic. In post #712 - I gave you no less than NINE (9) verses of Scripture that you refuse to accept as having used the word "Father" to refer to men ho DIDN'T actually sire the people they are talking about.

and weep . . .

“I was a FATHER to the poor, and I searched out the cause of him whom I did not know” (Job 29:16)

Elisha cried out, “My FATHER, my FATHER!” to Elijah as he was carried up to heaven in a whirlwind (2 Kgs. 2:12)

Elisha himself is called a FATHER by the king of Israel (2 Kgs. 6:21).

Jesus said, “Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).

Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).

Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).

Paul wrote to Timothy, “You then, MY SON, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus” (2 Tim. 2:1).

Paul again talks about his being a “FATHER” to Timothy - “But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a FATHER he has served with me in the gospel” (Phil. 2:22).

Paul wrote, “I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose FATHER I have become in my imprisonment” (Philem. 10).