ADDING WORKS:

H. Richard said:

To the religious obeying Christ is to keep the Law of Moses.

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What have you been smoking...or drinking?

Nobody believes what you are saying about the law of Moses. Everything you say of me is true of you. You are fully misrepresenting the case for the true gospel.

You are against obedience to Christ...the words of Jesus Christ... you almost admitted it but smoke screened it by saying "the law of Moses...as if Jesus just taught the law of Moses....which He did not. Jesus is greater than Moses not a disciple of Moses.

Jesus taught the kingdom of God.

So you must admit to the Board that you are against obeying the words of Jesus and you are against a Gentile entering into the kingdom of God.

Just admit it.

Shouldn't be too hard to figure out that "we are tired of eating what is it?" is the exact same principle as "All i have to do is not address any Scripture i don't like, at least as long as the board lets me"

H. Richard said:

I am not going go spend my time defending what I say

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^

"I don't need to be prepared to give a defense, I am right in my own eyes, and piss on you"

Hidden In Him said:

Interesting thought. I have sometimes heard of those who received Christ through an easy-believism message returning and saying later on, "But I don't feel saved." The reassuring response was usually something like, "But you can't go by your feelings. You have to go by faith." But that's just it; their faith is weak in the extreme because they never reinforced it with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, endurance, patience, brotherly love, etc. (2 Peter 1:5-8). It's like they want others to salve over their conscience or ignore it, but inside the Spirit of God is trying to tell them otherwise. The Lord put our conscience there to tell us when something is wrong and needs to be corrected, and negating its voice as irrelevant does a great disservice to believers IMO.

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A very good post and point. There is this disconnect between "feelings" and "evidence". It is a smokescreen.... a salesman's trick to suggest that a lack of evidence is just a lack of feelings.

So if a man prays to raise up a dead person...but that dead person doesn't arise...does that mean that the dead person is actually raised up but just not "feeling" it????

Of course any sane person would see the foolishness of such a way of thinking.

But that's how many present what they call..."being saved."

The emperor's new clothes of righteousness. It's a sham.

bbyrd009 said:

Shouldn't be too hard to figure out that "we are tired of eating what is it?" is the exact same principle as "All i have to do is not address any Scripture i don't like, at least as long as the board lets me"

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Correct me if I'm wrong....but you get offended with HR because he has such a disdain for the righteousness which is of God.

But you shouldn't take it personally. But rather pray for him...and they who see...or don't see...as he does.

The blind can be made to see. The ears of the deaf can be opened to hear the gospel.

Don't give up on anyone. And don't react in the very flesh that is being presented that you hate...and would be righteous in it if you could refrain yourself from reacting in that same flesh.

H. Richard said:

garbage. Jesus came to the Jews and taught what the law of Moses entails. He never taught that His death on the cross would pay for the sins of the flesh. That was HIDDEN in God and revealed to Paul as the gospel of God's grace. Those that believe keeping the commandments of the law will get them into Heaven have rejected Jesus' work on the cross as the only way.

The religious think that if they keep the Law (which no man can keep) they will earn a place in Heaven. The religious teach this. The proof is in what Mother Teresa said on her death bed, "I hope I have done enough to get me into Heaven". In simple language that means she hope she has earn a place in Heaven. It is trying to get into Heaven without going through Jesus' work on the cross.

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You are smokescreening again. Get it over with...tell us plainly...

Are we to follow the teachings of Jesus? Are Gentiles to seek the kingdom of God?

Try to be honest...

Episkopos said:

Correct me if I'm wrong....but you get offended with HR because he has such a disdain for the righteousness which is of God.

But you shouldn't take it personally. But rather pray for him...and they who see...or don't see...as he does.

The blind can be made to see. The ears of the deaf can be opened to hear the gospel.

Don't give up on anyone. And don't react in the very flesh that is being presented that you hate...and would be righteous in it if you could refrain yourself from reacting in that same flesh.

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I have no objections to HR being here and receptive, ok. If that ever happens lemme know and i'll come back, which may not be wanted anyway i guess. I take "piss on the cross" personally, what can i tell you Epi. And the board has made their choice quite plain, see, HR can crap all over Scripture and refuse to address legit rebuttals and not be called to account, and no offense but i would rather go be with the pimps and the whores, where i guess i belong. They confess, and are not proud of their sin, see. Have a good one.

um, Bc he is being deliberately deceptive and evasive, maybe?
That is his MO?

Episkopos said:

Try to be honest...

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Ha see you're trying to get your ten bucks back from a guy who just doesn't have it, Epi. And the ten bucks is not even the issue, right. HR is not even in a position to be honest right now, Bc then he would have to change. And ppl like Nehushtan, yes? Nehushtan is very comforting, we can all go read how Nehushtan relieves ppl of their self-inflicted sins, see.

Bc they do not have to confess anything

bbyrd009 said:

I have no objections to HR being here and receptive, ok. If that ever happens lemme know and i'll come back, which may not be wanted anyway i guess. I take "piss on the cross" personally, what can i tell you Epi. And the board has made their choice quite plain, see, HR can crap all over Scripture and refuse to address legit rebuttals and not be called to account, and no offense but i would rather go be with the pimps and the whores, where i guess i belong. They confess, and are not proud of their sin, see. Have a good one.

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Don't be discouraged Mark....just put the offending person on "ignore"....we live in a world of filthiness. We can't just leave the planet. Part of the training of a seeker of God is to learn how to cope with the unsavoury elements who do violence to the law of God.

We have not suffered the dishonour that Jesus endured. The contradiction of sinners as Paul put it.

Look to the Lord not to men...especially not to men who cause your inner conscience to wilt.

A warning to the OP

1 Tim. 6: 3, 4 If anyone teaches a different doctrine and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that accords with godliness, he is puffed up with conceit and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy craving for controversy and for quarrels about words, which produce envy, dissension, slander, evil suspicions,

....and that offends our brother Mark to such an extent.

Episkopos said:

Don't be discouraged Mark....just put the offending person on "ignore"....we live in a world of filthiness. We can't just leave the planet. Part of the training of a seeker of God is to learn how to cope with the unsavoury elements who do violence to the law of God.

We have not suffered the dishonour that Jesus endured. The contradiction of sinners as Paul put it.

Look to the Lord not to men...especially not to men who cause your inner conscience to wilt.

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No prob, honest, i will be back after אבד has done its work, i see it working even now. So see you then
אבדה has already been revealed even i guess

Episkopos said:

A very good post and point. There is this disconnect between "feelings" and "evidence". It is a smokescreen.... a salesman's trick

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I think many that preach it truly believe it to be the truth, and so they preach it sincerely. But the fact that they themselves admit to having people return to them with doubts they have to then try and smooth over suggests the message is in and of itself flawed, and requires a faith that must ignore evidence and even one's own conscience if either gets in the way of what one is supposed to "believe." I see the same thing happening when people debate atheists and unbelievers. When they're presented with evidence that seems to contradict Biblical claims, they turn to a defense of "we just trust the word of God by faith." The way God intended it to work was, you trusted God's word through faith, and then He began to show you evidence of its truth as you grew in the knowledge of Him. So likewise when we believe in His grace (that He is making us new creations, and adopting us as sons and daughters in Christ), the Holy Spirit in us then begins manifesting evidence which confirms it; that we have become "sons (and daughters) of obedience," proving what is our Father's good and acceptable will before the eyes of the world.

Episkopos said:

You are smokescreening again. Get it over with...tell us plainly...

Are we to follow the teachings of Jesus? Are Gentiles to seek the kingdom of God?

Try to be honest...

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Hello @Episkopos,

* Is it necessary for you to pour scorn and doubt upon a fellow member, and call into question his honesty?
* You have merely provided means for other critics to join you in your derision, as we can see by the response you have received: like hyenas picking the bones after a kill.

Shame!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

H. Richard said:

That was HIDDEN in God and revealed to Paul as the gospel of God's grace.

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H. Richard, you keep making this claim but you never responded to my argument. Doesn't it bother you that you can present no defense? Like I said, it's not a game of win or lose. It is a serous matter of debating accurate interpretation from inaccurate interpretation, but you don't seem to be the least bit flustered that you have no viable response.

You don't "owe" me an explanation, but I would think you would owe one to yourself. You will have to stand before God one day and give account for what you did with His Holy word.

bbyrd009 said:

"I don't need to be prepared to give a defense, I am right in my own eyes, and piss on you"

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You seem a little upset Byrd, LoL.

I agree it's a little upsetting - I lost my temper with it a little yesterday myself - but if I could offer a helpful suggestion of sorts, maybe step back from the computer for a sec and go have a nice breakfast or a cup of coffee or something. I've never seen you this upset before, and I know if I were that ticked off I cloud probably be able to use a little advice like that myself.

Don't take it the wrong way. Just hate to see you so ticked off.

Hello @H.Richard,

James could write about justification by faith, but he was writing, 'to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad', (James 1:1) so it was necessary that he should show that it had to be a living faith, accompanied by works.

* A righteousness of God without works had not yet been fully revealed. The epistle to the Romans had not yet been written. Therefore, justification must be like Abraham's faith and that of Rahab. For faith is like the human body, without spirit it is dead. By God breathing 'spirit' (or the breath of life) into man's nostrils, man 'became a living soul' - and without that spirit he 'becomes a dead soul'. So faith also without works is dead having no evidence of life, and giving no sign of it. Hence, James appeals to Abraham who 'believed God' but manifested that it was a living faith by his obedience in going out from his country and his kindred (2 :27).

* James' purpose (and that of the twelve), unlike Paul, was to confirm what had, 'began to be spoken by the Lord', and not to go beyond that.

'For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast,
and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation;
which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord,
and was confirmed unto us by them that heard Him;
God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders,
and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost,
according to His own will?
(Hebrews 2:2-4)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

(written to a previous thread, but copied here because it has relevance)

H. Richard said:

But I believe Jesus when He said the Holy Spirit will teach the children of God.... I believe James 1:1 says what it says and to add to it is to add man's words, not God's.

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So do I... but I believe you are laying so much stress on this one verse that you are discarding chapters of scripture in the process.

H. Richard said:

And so will you. You think you are threatening me but you are also threatening yourself.

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Why the insults again? H. Richard, honestly: I'm not threatening you. My response carried a warning, but out of genuine concern for your welfare, not because I'm trying to "threaten" you or something. Same goes for that remark about I need to prove I'm "better" than you. God forbid, LoL.

But again, don't your own responses when you are this defensive make you pause for a moment and consider that maybe your position is weaker than you assumed?