Vickie;71325] I have found this in Paul said:What about combining the fact that 1st Thess 4:14 says the dead returns with Christ, (we must assume from Heaven, since that is where Christ is returning from) with Mark 13:27 that says Christ gathers the elect not only from earth but from Heaven as well, at His return. Mark 1324 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
Who are the DEAD in CHRIST WHO RISE FIRST?
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Vickie: First Thessalonians was written to clear up confusion regarding the pre-millenial raptureSecond Thessalonians was written to clear up confusion regarding the pre-tribulation raptureFirst Thessalonians also assured the believers at the time that the Christians who had recently died , would not miss out on the day of the Lord as some had feared.Paul's writing is not complicated. You just have to read it carefully. It is rich with valuable teaching.
[quote name='Martin W.;71357]Vickie: First Thessalonians was written to clear up confusion regarding the pre-millenial rapture Second Thessalonians was written to clear up confusion regarding the pre-tribulation rapture First Thessalonians also assured the believers at the time that the Christians who had recently died ' date=' would not miss out on the day of the Lord as some had feared. Paul's writing is not complicated. You just have to read it carefully. It is rich with valuable teaching.[/QUOTE']This is absolutely untrue. Paul Himself was a pre-millennialist, and no one was ''pretrib'' theory until the 1800s
"First Thessalonians was written to clear up confusion regarding the pre-millenial raptureSecond Thessalonians was written to clear up confusion regarding the pre-tribulation rapture" -- Vickie ???????
Let me go into detail so you will know where I amcoming from. The Apostle Paul says in Philippians 3:10 & 11, "That I may know Him [Christ], and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead [Greek: exanastasis ek nekron]." Dr. Bullinger comments on this passage in his marginal notes in The Companion Bible. He tells us that the Greek word "exanastasis ek nekron" means OUT-RESURRECTION FROM AMONG THE DEAD. He says that the normal term used issimply "anastasis nekron," which is the resurrection of the dead--meaning all of the dead. But "EXanastasis EK nekron," he says, "implies the resurrection of some, the former of these two classes, the others behind left behind." In other words, Paul was telling the Philippian Church that his desire was to attain the FIRST resurrection--the limited resurrection out from among the rest of the dead. Paul had no doubt that he would be resurrected. But he knew of a "better resurrection" (Heb. 11:35) that would occur 1000 years before the general resurrection (Rev. 20:5). Paul did not doubt his salvation, but he did express concern that he might not attain this resurrection out from among the dead. Thus he continues in Phil. 3:12, saying, "NOT THAT I HAVE ALREADY OBTAINED IT, or have already become perfect, but I press on in order that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus." What is "it" that he had not yet obtained? He had certainly already qualified for the general resurrection as a citizen of the Kingdom. But he knew that "enduring to the end" was required to inherit the first resurrection and to rule with Christ during the thousand years of the Tabernacles Age. When a person has conformed to His death...they will bechanged from glory to glory and be made in his likeness andimage. That is what qualifies them to receive immortality andrule with Him in the Tabernacles Age. We must die to this life,in order to obtain LIFE IN THE AGES. Logabe
Polar;71379]"First Thessalonians was written to clear up confusion regarding the pre-millenial raptureSecond Thessalonians was written to clear up confusion regarding the pre-tribulation rapture" -- Vickie ???????[/QUOTE] Here is what the bible says concerning the rapture...make your decision from it. Pay close attention to verse 9-12 because it speaks about those who took the mark of the beast and what happens to them before we are removed. Babylon has fallen before we are taken as these verses state that to happen. [B]This means we are here till the tribulation is finished. [/B]I said:
I agree vickie the rapture is post trib, but the return of Christ is pre-millennial. But this isn't really the suject of this thread.Vickie;71401]Here is what the bible says concerning the rapture...make your decision from it. Pay close attention to verse 9-12 because it speaks about those who took the mark of the beast and what happens to them before we are removed. Babylon has fallen before we are taken as these verses state that to happen. [B]This means we are here till the tribulation is finished. [/B] I said:
The dead in Christ are the overcomers, the firstfruits and are not the great multitude, which no man could number before the throne. Death here speaks spiritual dead not physical. There are two types of people in the Book of Revelation; the Overcomer and everyone else. Just because you are heir to salvation does not make you the elect. Notice there is a distinction between the great multitudes BEFORE the throne (Rev. 7:9) in comparison to the overcomer who Christ will grant to sit with me on my throne (Rev. 3:21) . Rev. 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;Rev. 3: 21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Mercy777
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- Sep 13, 2010
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Amen!
Also, Ecclesiastes 12:7
and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Now this would make the teaching of Lazarus and the rich man plausible.
Believer and unbeliever- the spirit goes back to God.
One at Abraham's side with Christ and the other in hell.
The earthly bodies return to dust.
Luke 16: [sup]19[/sup]"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. [sup]20[/sup]At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores [sup]21[/sup]and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
[sup]22[/sup]"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. [sup]23[/sup]In hell,[sup][c][/sup] where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. [sup]24[/sup]So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'
[sup]25[/sup]"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. [sup]26[/sup]And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'
[sup]27[/sup]"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, [sup]28[/sup]for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'
[sup]29[/sup]"Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'
[sup]30[/sup]" 'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' [sup]31[/sup]"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead
The brothers were still alive on earth.
I myself do not believe this is a parable, for every parable God states it is a parable. This teaching is not stated so.
Also Christ's resurrected body is the example of what our resurrected bodies will be.
Christ did not want us to fear death in any way, he conquered all of death. There is no more waiting for Christ because He is alive forevermore. We died in Him and are now alive in Him.
God Bless,
Mercy
