Isaiah 3:14

stunnedbygrace said:

Your houses are filled with things stolen from the poor.

Do you think this was mostly open and outright theft of things? If not, what would you think of as a corollary today? Because I'm thinking more along the lines of...cleverly hidden theft so the peoples consciences could say, "no one has caught me cheating..."

I'm looking for corollaries today. Ex: Things made in sweat shops where the workers aren't even given a fair wage for the sweat of their brow.

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It is a parallel to Hebrews 10:30-31.

stunnedbygrace said:

Your houses are filled with things stolen from the poor.

Do you think this was mostly open and outright theft of things? If not, what would you think of as a corollary today? Because I'm thinking more along the lines of...cleverly hidden theft so the peoples consciences could say, "no one has caught me cheating..."

I'm looking for corollaries today. Ex: Things made in sweat shops where the workers aren't even given a fair wage for the sweat of their brow.

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You've got it stunnedbygrace!...that and more summed up in your quoted opening statement....it runs deeeeep!

stunnedbygrace said:

Your houses are filled with things stolen from the poor.

Do you think this was mostly open and outright theft of things? If not, what would you think of as a corollary today? Because I'm thinking more along the lines of...cleverly hidden theft so the peoples consciences could say, "no one has caught me cheating..."

I'm looking for corollaries today. Ex: Things made in sweat shops where the workers aren't even given a fair wage for the sweat of their brow.

Click to expand...

Had to think about it for a minute, spot on.

God bless

stunnedbygrace said:

@quietthinker can you think of any ways we do this or even indirectly do this because of things our leaders do?
I'm not advocating for political action, by the way. I just remembered, when reading it, the passage where a prophet gave a list of things the people were doing that God was not happy with, and their reply was like...what?? Youre nuts - HOW have we done that?? So what stuck with me was, they didnt KNOW they were doing it.

I cant find that passage now but I'm in Isaiah so if it's there I might run across it today.

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The first thing that comes to kind are our Churches....I mean the buildings/structures often over the top. We glory in outdoing the architecture of another or using it as a show piece for priding ourselves. It's purpose as a gathering place has been eclipsed by 'loftier aspirations'...the cost often in excess of what is necessary. Is this not theft?

Then there there are the charges levied by the administrative side of Churches....I won't say too much about this because I don't have a rounded picture nevertheless, what I have seen has alarmed me. The business model used is that of the World....Jesus becomes the rubber stamp to aggrandise.

Ezekiel 13 & 14 speaks of idols of the heart....robbing God in his Temple....'Prophets' who face the East.
To elaborate; the tabernacle was to be set up so its entrance was on the East side. This was intentional so when the priest entered, his back was to the East...this is highly significant because the Pagans worshipped the Sun subsequently they faced and bowed to the East (the rising of the Sun) if you like, a counterfeit Jesus....this is the reference to idols in the heart....robbing God of his glory and in so doing robbing the poor of the bread of heaven.....soooo, 'thieves' fill their houses.

stunnedbygrace said:

Your houses are filled with things stolen from the poor.

Do you think this was mostly open and outright theft of things? If not, what would you think of as a corollary today? Because I'm thinking more along the lines of...cleverly hidden theft so the peoples consciences could say, "no one has caught me cheating..."

I'm looking for corollaries today. Ex: Things made in sweat shops where the workers aren't even given a fair wage for the sweat of their brow.

Click to expand...

As I recall, Isaiah's focus was on the courts and how the wealthy were using the courts to take advantage of those without means. Perhaps a modern parallel would be found in the "civil rights" cases where Christian bakers are being sued for not baking cakes for gay-weddings, or courts that rob women of a chance to compete in sports by allowing males to compete. I'm sure we could find many other ways in which the courts rob the people. (not all courts of course.)

stunnedbygrace said:

Your houses are filled with things stolen from the poor.

Do you think this was mostly open and outright theft of things? If not, what would you think of as a corollary today? Because I'm thinking more along the lines of...cleverly hidden theft so the peoples consciences could say, "no one has caught me cheating..."

I'm looking for corollaries today. Ex: Things made in sweat shops where the workers aren't even given a fair wage for the sweat of their brow.

Click to expand...

I'm thinking along the lines of Copeland,Duplantis, Cefflo, Womak?

CadyandZoe said:

As I recall, Isaiah's focus was on the courts and how the wealthy were using the courts to take advantage of those without means. Perhaps a modern parallel would be found in the "civil rights" cases where Christian bakers are being sued for not baking cakes for gay-weddings, or courts that rob women of a chance to compete in sports by allowing males to compete. I'm sure we could find many other ways in which the courts rob the people. (not all courts of course.)

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Mark 12:40-43 KJV
Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation. [41] And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. [42] And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. [43] And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:

They do it for a pretence!

Addressing the OP only,
it's no different from today. listen, Amos 2:6 "Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Israel, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they sold the righteous for silver, and the poor for a pair of shoes;"
Amos 2:7 "That pant after the dust of the earth on the head of the poor, and turn aside the way of the meek: and a man and his father will go in unto the same maid, to profane my holy name:"

lets put it in morden terms today, predatory lending, high intrest rates, payday loans, ect..... other words stealing from the poor to become rich.

this is what the Lord is speaking of. Proverbs 11:1 "A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight."

this right here in Amos, and what you speak of in Isaiah and as well as other places in the bible sum up the Law. Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

this is why America now is in the trouble that she is in now, what did Amos say by the LORD? "because they sold the righteous for silver, and the poor for a pair of shoes"

PICJAG.

stunnedbygrace said:

Your houses are filled with things stolen from the poor.

Do you think this was mostly open and outright theft of things? If not, what would you think of as a corollary today? Because I'm thinking more along the lines of...cleverly hidden theft so the peoples consciences could say, "no one has caught me cheating..."

I'm looking for corollaries today. Ex: Things made in sweat shops where the workers aren't even given a fair wage for the sweat of their brow.

Click to expand...

you mean the stuff you wear and buy? if that be the case that would include you also.

stunnedbygrace said:

and their reply was like...what?? Youre nuts - HOW have we done that??

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Try Malachi . . .

If you don’t mind, I would like to tie into this, the fact there are more important things to speak about. Please do not be angry with me. I feel the need to expose the fact that we are in the last generation of the flesh. This Isaiah scripture is as important than any in the Bible; but if it were treated, for example like the Ten Commandments, which we all keep in the background of our Christian psyche, to pull quickly to the forefront, in order to guarantee a stable Child of God. We all know that if we are to understand the end of God’s Story, we must understand the beginning. In the middle, we find that God issued a decree of divorcement to Israel. And right now, God is not wholly concerned if we focus on the little things. However, there is a certain small group of His Children, that He will be relying on to pick up the ragged extremities of His Plan (example rapture or Passover/Easter). The hundreds of Denominations have certainly made the Church into a mess of ragged doctrines, to the point that Doctrines are the enemy of God. So I hope you can see how some non descriptive scriptures can fail to cut the mustard in this LAST generation of flesh man.

stunnedbygrace said:

And what about investing your money so that "your money makes money." Its silly. Money doesnt magically make more money. If your money grows, somewhere along the line you are making money off the sweat of someone else's brow...

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and what's more, the principle of fairness of exchange is compromised. Considering this its makes the whole financial system a tool of oppression.

stunnedbygrace said:

And what about investing your money so that "your money makes money." Its silly. Money doesnt magically make more money. If your money grows, somewhere along the line you are making money off the sweat of someone else's brow...

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first thanks for the reply, second, investing "YOUR" money, is no problem, as long as there is no insider trading, or inside information to help "YOUR" investment. God is fair and righteous, as said, he loves a just weight, and hates a false balance, or as said (INSIDER TRADING). Making money off money is JUST, supportive scripture,
Matthew 25:14 "For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods."
Matthew 25:15 "And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey."
Matthew 25:16 "Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents."
Matthew 25:17 "And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two."
Matthew 25:18 "But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money."
Matthew 25:19 "After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them."
Matthew 25:20 "And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more."
Matthew 25:21 "His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord."
Matthew 25:22 "He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them."
Matthew 25:23 "His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord."
Matthew 25:24 "Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:"
Matthew 25:25 "And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine."
Matthew 25:26 "His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:"
Matthew 25:27 "Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury." BINGO.

Usury here is "INTREST", it's the Greek word,
G5110 τόκος tokos (to'-kos) n.
interest on money loaned (as a produce).
[from the base of G5088]
KJV: usury

so money can make money.

in Luke, it is clear: Luke 19:23 "Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?". so unjust banker must answer to God.

and the exchangers is the "BANKER", or the stock Market/Broker.
G5133 τραπεζίτης trapezites (tra-pe-ziy'-tees) n.
a money-broker or banker.
[from G5132]
KJV: exchanger

and your other address: "Money doesnt magically make more money. If your money grows, somewhere along the line you are making money off the sweat of someone else's brow".

well why do you have a Job then? your sweat of your brow is given in "SERVICE" to make money.

but let me say this also, we are not to loan to our brothers and sisters with intrest who are poor and cannot afford it.
Exodus 22:25 "If thou lend money to any of my people that is poor by thee, thou shalt not be to him as an usurer, neither shalt thou lay upon him usury."

Leviticus 25:35 "And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee."
Leviticus 25:36 "Take thou no usury of him, or increase: but fear thy God; that thy brother may live with thee."

Deuteronomy 23:19 "Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother; usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury:"
Deuteronomy 23:20 "Unto a stranger thou mayest lend upon usury; but unto thy brother thou shalt not lend upon usury: that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all that thou settest thine hand to in the land whither thou goest to possess it."


Now let me say this, "THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH MONEY, IT'S US THE USER OF IT, HOW WE USE IT". for the Love of Money is the root of all evil. NOT the MONEY, but YOU who LOVE IT is the problem.

hope that helped.

PICJAG.

stunnedbygrace said:

Your houses are filled with things stolen from the poor.

Do you think this was mostly open and outright theft of things? If not, what would you think of as a corollary today? Because I'm thinking more along the lines of...cleverly hidden theft so the peoples consciences could say, "no one has caught me cheating..."

I'm looking for corollaries today. Ex: Things made in sweat shops where the workers aren't even given a fair wage for the sweat of their brow.

Click to expand...

What brand computer do you use?
Isaiah 3

RainAndIceCream said:

What brand computer do you use?
Isaiah 3

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@RainAndIceCream Searching chapter of Isaiah there....

stunnedbygrace said:

And what about investing your money so that "your money makes money." Its silly. Money doesnt magically make more money. If your money grows, somewhere along the line you are making money off the sweat of someone else's brow...

Click to expand...

That is not necessarily the case. Every investment is meant to create a profit, but not necessarily an unjust or unfair profit.

I believe you run a business, which means that money was invested to create that business. But it your business is a genuine business, you do expect to make a profit at the end of the year. Which means that there will be a fair exchange of money for goods or services. The same principle applies to all investments, therefore money is supposed to make money. It is only charities which do not expect to make a profit. Even in the parable of the talents, the man who buried his talent should at the very least have deposited it in a bank, and earned interest for his master (according to his master).

Getting back to what was quoted from Isaiah, many were getting wealthy on the backs of the poor, by failing to pay them fair wages, or simply stealing what they had, or making an unrighteous profit. This has been true in all ages, and continues throughout the world. Slave labor is a fact of life. And when you examine the Prosperity Gospel preachers, this is exactly what they are doing -- getting wealthy and establishing lavish lifestyles on the back of poor and gullible Christians. So Isaiah is condemning these unjust activities.