Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

101G said:

First thanks for the reply. second, well OBSERVATION #1. the link to word hippo is the word, "desire", which is synonyms to the word "FREE WILL". and synonyms means a word that has the same meaning as another word in the same language
so all your OBSERVATION fail. please examine that look and see what the tab is used ... "synonyms".

now OBSERVATION #3. that ends that narrative for me. for "desire", which is synonyms to the word "FREE WILL."

PICJAG.

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Thanks for the reply 101G, but I went back to your post #28 in this thread, and you can see that the WordHippo link you provided was to "free will", not "desire". I've quoted your post right below. Please notice the end of the link that you provided states "free_will.html#C0-1".

101G said:

Well lets settle this onece and for all. "Desire" is just another word for free will. I had already look up the word, and the finding can be found here at the word Hippo Dictionary, and here's the link. https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/another-word-for/free_will.html#C0-1

see I already knew what the word ment, it's intresting how people go through hoop to try and defend their position. when they could have just look up the word.

PICJAG.

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This means that OBSERVATION ONE remains intact.

Here are 3 additionally relevant OBSERVATIONS that continue from post #58

OBSERVATION THIRTEEN: My beloved brother and Apostle Peter wrote to and of the Assembly of God "not desiring for any to perish but for all to come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9). so let's replace "desiring" with "free willing" to develop the results of such a change.

• "not free willing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance" - but "free will" can mean "attraction" and "repulsion", so this can be restated as two simultaneously concurrent clauses as:
  • "not attractive for any to perish but for all to come to repentance"
  • "not repulsive for any to perish but for all to come to repentance"

Thus, applying "free willing" as a replacement for "desiring" results with an internal contradiction resulting in confusion; therefore, "free will" cannot be a replacement for "desire" because "God is not of confusion but of peace" (1 Corinthians 14:33).

OBSERVATION FOURTEEN: utilizing a concept that is unsupported by Scripture to define another concept is deception; in other words, since "free will" is unsupported in Scripture, then using the definition of "free will" as the basis for the definition for "desire" is unsupported for Scripture.

OBSERVATION FIFTEEN: As a result of the above OBSERVATIONs as proofs, the thing called "desire" is not the same as the thing called "free will"; therefore, the WordHippo Thesaurus incorrectly defines "desire" as the power of autonomous volition (free will) resulting in action because WordHippo neglects to account for the corresponding integral point that autonomous volition must, by definition, possess the ability to choose inaction, and the WordHippo Thesaurus incorrectly applies "desire" and "free will" as synonyms.

Integrating "free-will" as part of "desire" or "freewill" as a replacement for "desire" introduces not only arbitrary and capricious meaning, but absolute confusion, so not integrating "free-will" into "desire" results in order (1 Corinthians 14:33).

I would now like to draw attention back to the rest of this page that looks at four reputable and scholarly dictionaries (includes synonyms), and more importantly at scripture cross referencing - that demonstrates "free will" is excluded from the scope of definition of the word "desire" forGenesis 3:6.

"Free will" is absent for the word "desire" definitions and synonyms from each and every of the 4 reputable and scholarly dictionaries mentioned in the rest of this page.

Taken said:

Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

Yes.

Adam CREATED/ formed from the existing dust of the Earth (dry land).

Adam MADE Alive/ having Gods Breath iMPARTED/ Gods Life called a Soul.

Adams formed, Created, Made BODY, was WonderFULLY MADE.

Pss 139
[14] I will praise thee; for I am fearfully andwonderfully made : marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.

Although God was with Adam in the Garden, Teaching Adam ONLY Good things. Adam had FREEWILL to Not DO according to Gods Teaching.

Adam MADE his FREEWILL Choice To Look upon the Tree God warned Adam Not to Look upon.

Adam MADE his FREEWILL Choice To Eat from the Tree warned Adam Not To Eat its Fruit.

Satan said, Eating the Fruit would MAKE Adam LIKE God...IT DID.
Like God, Adam thereafter "KNEW", Good and Evil.

Satan said, IN direct Opposition to God,
THAT Adam would "NOT DIE", "IF" Adam ate the fruit.
THAT was Satans LIE.

Gen 2:
[17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Gen 5:
[5] And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Adam freely chose to Eat.
Adam Died.
God is Truth.
Satan LIES.

Glory to God,
Taken

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You seem to have missed item 2.1. of the original post. None of your Bible citations provide explicit nor contextual proof for "free will".

Here is item 2.1 again:

Examining attribute as relating to the purported facility of free will in Adam

WITH a targeted result of logical deductive reasoning leveraging compare and contrast of attributes/facilities

SINCE Adam was made in the image according to the likeness of God (Genesis 1:26)

THEN some persons of the creation (creatures) argue that specific facility was given to Adam

IN particular God willpowering purported free will into man during the creation of Adam

THEN Adam could not have used free will to perform evil against God

BECAUSE God will not use willpower in order to perform evil against God's self (Psalm 5:4, Psalm 92:15, Deuteronomy 32:4)

THEREFORE it follows that Man could not use free will in order to perform evil against God

1. The logical extension of free will on this basis results in man possessing expanded facilities beyond God's facilities
2. God is Creator; on the other hand, man is creature
3. Largely, I use free will to mean man choosing toward God, emphatically Lord Jesus Christ.
4. Scripture does not include the mention of endowing Adam with free will
5. Man's free will is a precept of man (Matthew 15:9)

Taken said:

Disagree.

Gen 3:6
[6] And when the (woman saw) that the tree was good for food,
and that it was pleasant to the eyes,
(woman's Eyes)
and a tree to be desired to make one wise,
(Satans' INFLUENCE)
she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

She Saw.
She believed it would MAKE her WISE.
She reached out and Took the fruit.

Did it MAKE her WISE?

It MADE her WISE that there there IS Good AND Evil.

Wisdom IS "MAKING" a FREEWILL Choice of Good OVER Evil.

It is a Lesson.
God ONLY Taught Good.
The Same, A parent is Suppose To Teach their Children...
So that WHEN, they Become Introduced to Outside Influences, they are Not Tricked or TEMPTED to Fall For what an outsider uses to Tempt them "With"...

Yet we Full well know, young minds are curious and Freely Choose to Try, what outside Influences Suggest (Tempt).

A WISE person's " FreeWill" Reject a Tempter and their Ideas.

Jesus Gave an Excellent Example Of HOW TO Reject A TEMPTER.

Glory to God,
Taken

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You wrote "Wisdom IS 'MAKING' a FREEWILL Choice of Good OVER Evil".

As shown scripturally in item 2.3 of the original post, neither Adam nor Eve knew good nor evil at the time of the actions recorded in Genesis 3:6, so you are putting "FREEWILL Choice of Good OVER Evil" (your words) where it cannot exist according to the Word of God.

101G said:

Did not God already commanded not to eat, so the choice after the Command of God, and after the beguiled, she did this, "when the woman saw that the tree was good for food". "saw" here is a conscious decision of choice, meaning FREE WILL.

But thanks for the invite.

PICJAG.

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Taken said:

Disagree.

Gen 3:6
[6] And when the (woman saw) that the tree was good for food,
and that it was pleasant to the eyes,
(woman's Eyes)
and a tree to be desired to make one wise,
(Satans' INFLUENCE)
she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

She Saw.
She believed it would MAKE her WISE.
She reached out and Took the fruit.

Did it MAKE her WISE?

It MADE her WISE that there there IS Good AND Evil.

Wisdom IS "MAKING" a FREEWILL Choice of Good OVER Evil.

It is a Lesson.
God ONLY Taught Good.
The Same, A parent is Suppose To Teach their Children...
So that WHEN, they Become Introduced to Outside Influences, they are Not Tricked or TEMPTED to Fall For what an outsider uses to Tempt them "With"...

Yet we Full well know, young minds are curious and Freely Choose to Try, what outside Influences Suggest (Tempt).

A WISE person's " FreeWill" Reject a Tempter and their Ideas.

Jesus Gave an Excellent Example Of HOW TO Reject A TEMPTER.

Glory to God,
Taken

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Since both of you insinuating that "saw" is "free will", I'm consolidating this response to both of your posts, yet in my previous post I addressed Taken's sequence error by my reference to item 2.3. of the original post.

In Genesis 3:6, the verb "saw" expresses Eve's condition.

The passage does not state that the woman "saw by choosing", so the word "saw" is a state of being while "saw" is not a choice.

The passage does not state that the woman "went from seeing the tree as bad for food to good for food into seeing the tree as good for food", so the word "saw" is a state of being while "saw" is not expressed as a transition.

The Genesis 3:1-5 passsage indicates that the serpent and Eve discussed the trees of the garden then the focus of the conversation narrowed to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, so Eve's attention was on the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, so "saw" is "attention" even "pointed attention" in the context of Genesis 3:1-6, so Eve saw(attention/thought) that the tree was good for food.

The word "saw" is not "free will".

The command was NOT left to choice by the humans for they would eat of the tree and God knew it as per the exegesis provided in item 1. of the original post.

The first condition of all men is enmity against God

MOREOVER, that first condition is the default state of man, and the first condition can be referred to as:

• the first nature
• the default nature
• the sin nature
• the carnal nature
• the old things
• the enemy against God nature
• the flesh nature

AND that is just like the first man, Adam, from the earth, earthy (1 Corinthians 15:47)

FOR through Adam sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men (Romans 5:12)

AND respecting the first nature all people have no choice in the matter, all people enter life with the sin nature (Colossians 1:13-14, Colossians 1:21-22)

YET people in the first nature are incapable of pleasing God (Romans 8:8)

AND people of the first nature cannot understand spiritual things of God (1 Corinthians 2:14)

SO God's regeneration of men in the renewing by the Holy Spirit results in a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17, Titus 3:5)

AND by the act of God, the old things passed away while the new creature has come (2 Corinthians 5:17)

AGAIN God formed Adam of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being (Genesis 2:7)

MOREOVER in order to make the woman for the man (Genesis 2:22), God took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place (Genesis 2:21)

ADDITIONALLY Adam said "flesh of my flesh" of the woman (Genesis 2:23)

ADDITIONALLY of man and wife it is written "they shall become one flesh" (Genesis 2:24)

THEREFORE man was made of flesh

AND flesh is Strong's Greek 4561 (σάρξ [sarx]) which is the same word used in

• the Septuagint's Genesis 2:21, Genesis 2:23, Genesis 2:24
• the New Testament's 1 Corinthians 15:39, Romans 4:1, Colossians 1:22, Romans 8:8, 1 Corinthians 1:29, 2 Corinthians 5:16

SO the "old things", the first and default nature, is flesh (earthy, darkness, wicked, evil, death, natural) - in/by/of/for man

BUT the "new things", the God fabricated new creature, is Spirit (heavenly, Light, righteous, good, life, eternal) - in/by/of/for Christ

SO the "new creature" is made holy by the Holy God named Jesus Christ

AND the "new creature" is in Christ, and only the "new creature", we born again by God, are in Christ

AND in Christ all will be made alive (1 Corinthians 15:22)

justbyfaith said:

You left out John 6:28:

Jhn 6:28, Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

Jesus makes His statement in answer to this question.

Therefore, He is saying, "If you are going to insist that you will have salvation by works, the only work (that you can do) that will save you is to believe on the One whom He hath sent."

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You are illegitimately changing the Word of God. Jesus did not say ANYTHING about an "only work that you can do" since the work is attributed to God and God alone!

Regardless of John 6:28, in John 6:29 the Word of God defines faith with "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent".

Lord Jesus is the Word of God (John 1:14).

This means that God works in a person to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent.

justbyfaith said:

No, I have merely taken from the scripture what it plainly teaches.

You are trying to make a point based on the fact that a word is missing. I believe that that is a logical fallacy.

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The word "choose" is missing, and the meaning of the word "choice" is missing contextually as demonstrated in the original post with my subsequent posts that include the Word of God; therefore, you are fabricating a word or concept into the Word of God that does not exist.

It is written "do not add to His words or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar" (Proverbs 30:6).

Of the new Jerusalem, the Apostle John wrote "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27).

Notice, both of these verses refer to lying.

Why did she eat?

Did God force her to do it?

Or, did she choose to eat it?

Is there a third option that I am not seeing?

If it is the first, how do you suppose God can punish her, and the entire human race for that matter, based on something that He made happen?

Is God some kind of sadist in your opinion?

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Who Causes What

God forms man in the womb.*

Man is born of the world.*

God causes man's conversion from the worldly realm to the heavenly realm.*

BARNEY BRIGHT said:

I simply believe as the scriptures say, Jehovah God created mankind in his image, according to his likeness. How can we be created in God image according to his likeness if mankind are not free moral agents.
People who quote Scripture that talk about believers throughout all time, who are interpreting them to mean mankind has no free will, they're misinterpreting those scriptures because these scriptures ate talking about believers. How can you believe or accept something to be true if you have no free will. Look up the word believe or believer for yourselves.
Do people have a choice to be a criminal or not or are we programmed before we come into existence that a choice had been made for us before we come into existence that we will be criminals. Decide for yourselves.

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BARNEY BRIGHT, your post is absent of scripture again, and you repeat your error again without addressing any of the original post material about the creation account. I suggest you go back to the post to which you replied to see the specific items of the original post that I indentified for you previously.

Nonetheless, let's just look up belief/faith, BARNEY BRIGHT, since you brought it up when you wrote "Look up the word believe or believer for yourselves".

In John 6:29 the Word of God defines faith with "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent".

Lord Jesus is the Word of God (John 1:14).

This means that God works in a person to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent.

No choice. No free will. Yes the work of God!

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

DNB said:

Rule #1, the person who claims to equate their opinions with that of God's, is typically the worst exegete in the room. You qualified that adage without compromise.
Rule #2, the person who is required to substantiate their position of a particular doctrine, by isolating a single word and researching its etymology, typically espouses erroneous doctrine. The context and meaning has entirely eluded them.

You interpret Scripture like a child, only reading the passages on a very superficial level, and to a very selective degree.
You made completely absurd predications as in: a command does not imply choice, to covet is not self-determined, man's fallen nature, ...
You have entirely failed to harmonize the sovereignty of God with man's free will. The profundity of God's Word has completely eluded you.

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Your post is absent of scripture, and that is a reflection of how scripture is absent of indicating free will for man.

I don't interpret Scripture, that is a function of the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:20-21).

As far as your mention of "child", that is very interesting when Lord Jesus said "Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 18:3-4).

Now, let's look at scripture and the orignial post. In Genesis 2:17, God clearly states that man WILL eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. This is shown in item 1. of the original post. Free will would mean that man could choose to go against what God said WOULD happen; therefore, man did not have free will.

It is written, "'For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,' declares the LORD. 'For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.'" (Isaiah 55:8-9).

You are referring to man attempting to override God's thoughts with man's thoughts, and that is evil.