Cessastionism ,What is it?

Mike Waters · Jul 10, 2020

I have no firm answers to the question of Paranormality.
When I was a young Christian believer, and of an impressionable age, circumstances placed me in the company of three pentecostalists who asked if they could lay hands on me with a view to me receiving what they called "the baptism of the Spirit".

At the time I was aware that Glossolalia was practiced in non Christian as well as in Christian Circles.
I was also aware of instances where young children had recounted historically accurate descriptions of events that they could not possibly have known about via the realm of normality.
I also knew of Christians who had been cured of medical conditions that had been pronounced as incurable by medical experts, and who claimed that their cures were by divine intervention.
But I also knew of those who had similarly been cured despite medical prognosis but had no Christian faith whatsoever.

My inclination at that time was to believe that, alongside the power of God's Holy Spirit, other 'knock knock who's there' spirits, without the capability of omnipresence, roamed around seeking to inhabit the minds of those who were open receive them.
So, when I willingly agreed to submit myself to the laying on of the pentecostalist's hands, I did so prayerfully, asking that God would grant me whatever accorded with his will ..... but, being weary of the 'knock knock who's there' spirits, I declined the advice of the three pentecostalists to "completely empty my mind" whilst they laid hands on me.

Whilst they became more and more audible in tongues, normal prayer, and pressure of hands I remained exactly as I was at the beginning.

As for other spiritual gifts I have the same open mind ..... but seem to remain a pretty normal bloke with a solid Christian faith that I hope is consistent with the "Faith first delivered to the saints" from the beginning of the apostolic era.
A faith that existed centuries before Constantine, the nicene creed , and the subsequent canonisation of a selection of the 'apostolic writings', and the consequential production of Catholicism's new extended Christian Text Book, to become known as the Latin Vulgate Bible.

And BTW, I do not consider my post to be the result of "ignorance".

Josho · Jul 10, 2020

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
Like what for example?Clarify what you mean.
No one here is as been to heaven,nobody.

I am not talking about people in Heaven, I am talking about supernatural healings and the gift of tongues from God and other experiences of being touched by the Holy Spirit.

Anyway are you willing to give believing that the Lord Jesus can still do miracles a try?

What are you believing God for today?

Perhaps you may need a supernatural miracle in your life, perhaps there is something you need prayer for, are you willing to give believing for a miracle a try?

marksman · Jul 10, 2020

marks said:
John MacArthur teaches that the "signs gifts" stopped, but the gifts of the Spirit continue.

Much love!

One and the same to my way of thinking.

charity · Jul 10, 2020

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
If people cannot give the teaching how can they be critical of it?

Charity never faileth:
but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail;
whether there be tongues, they shall cease;
whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
.. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
.... But when that which is perfect is come,
...... then that which is in part shall be done away.
When I was a child, I spake as a child,
.. I understood as a child,
.... I thought as a child:
...... but when I became a man,
........I put away childish things.
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face:
now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three;
but the greatest of these is charity.'
(1 Corinthians 13:8)

Hello @Anthony D'Arienzo,

This is a verse which tells us clearly that these gifts of the Spirit shall cease.

* Also, if you search the later epistles of Paul (Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon) written at the end of the Acts period, no mention is made of these gifts. In fact there are those of Paul's acquaintance who are spoken of as being 'sick' for one reason or another, and who are not healed.

* So, yes, I do believe that the gifts and miracles were given for a purpose and ceased being largely confirmatory: to bring Israel as a nation to repentance and the acknowledgement of the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah. When the nation finally went away into the darkness of unbelief at the end of the Acts period, and salvation was sent to the Gentiles (Acts 28:28), then the time for miracles and signs was passed.

* They also appear to have application to immaturity, and childhood: Faith being 'the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.' (Heb 11:1)

* However God is almighty, and we must not limit Him to our own understanding.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Truther · Jul 10, 2020

charity said:
Charity never faileth:
but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail;
whether there be tongues, they shall cease;
whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
.. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
.... But when that which is perfect is come,
...... then that which is in part shall be done away.
When I was a child, I spake as a child,
.. I understood as a child,
.... I thought as a child:
...... but when I became a man,
........I put away childish things.
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face:
now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three;
but the greatest of these is charity.'
(1 Corinthians 13:8)

Hello @Anthony D'Arienzo,

This is a verse which tells us clearly that these gifts of the Spirit shall cease.

Also, if you search the later epistles of Paul (Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon) written at the end of the Acts period, no mention is made of these gifts. In fact there are those of Paul's acquaintance who are spoken of as being 'sick' for one reason or another, and who are not healed.

So, yes, I do believe that the gifts and miracles were given for a purpose and ceased being largely confirmatory: to bring Israel as a nation to repentance and the acknowledgement of the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah. When the nation finally went away into the darkness of unbelief at the end of the Acts period, and salvation was sent to the Gentiles (Acts 28:28), then the time for miracles and signs was passed.

They also appear to have application to immaturity, and childhood.

However God is almighty, and we must not limit Him to our own understanding.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Note, same book....

1 Cor 1
7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The cessation of gifts is AFTER He returns.

charity · Jul 10, 2020

Truther said:
Note, same book....

1 Cor 1
7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hello Truther,

This epistle was written by Paul before Israel as a nation went away into the blindness of unbelief, and salvation was sent to the Gentiles (Acts 28:28). Therefore the repentance of Israel was the goal, therefore the signs and miracles abounded.

The Coming of the Lord had the potential to be 'imminent' also: and was the expectation of the churches during that period. All that was required was the repentance of Israel, as can be seen from Acts 3:19-21.

'Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,
when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
And He shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things,
which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets
since the world began.'
(Act 3:19-21)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Truther · Jul 10, 2020

charity said:
Hello Truther,

This epistle was written by Paul before Israel as a nation went away into the blindness of unbelief, and salvation was sent to the Gentiles (Acts 28:28). Therefore the repentance of Israel was the goal, therefore the signs and miracles abounded.

The Coming of the Lord had the potential to be 'imminent' also: and was the expectation of the churches during that period. All that was required was the repentance of Israel, as can be seen from Acts 3:19-21.

'Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out,
when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
And He shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things,
which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets
since the world began.'
(Act 3:19-21)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Chris.

Facts is Jesus did not come, but Paul said this would happen until then....

7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Since Jesus did not come in their generation(that which is perfect is come), then we are also instructed to come behind in no gift as we wait for His return and for the establishment of His perfect millennial reign.

charity · Jul 10, 2020

Truther said:
Hi Chris.

Facts is Jesus did not come, but Paul said this would happen until then....

7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Since Jesus did not come in their generation(that which is perfect is come), then we are also instructed to come behind in no gift as we wait for His return and for the establishment of His perfect millennial reign.

'Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
So that ye come behind in no gift;
waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall also confirm you unto the end,
that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
God is faithful, by whom ye were called
unto the fellowship of His Son Jesus Christ our Lord.'
(1 Corinthians 1:6)

Hello @Truther ,

The testimony of Christ was confirmed in the Corinthian believers: who now waited for the coming of the Lord. The promise is that He would continue to confirm (or establish) them unto the 'end' (Gr, Telos) meaning the final end. That they may be blameless in the day of the Lord Jesus Christ. There is nothing said here to indicate that the gifts would continue, only that the Lord Jesus Christ would continue to establish them, for He is faithful.

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Waiting on him · Jul 10, 2020

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
2 cor12:12 declares there were signs of an Apostle.
There are no Apostles on earth today.
Yes we are to make disciples.Mt28
God can do anything that He chooses,even close off the new revelation after giving us all we need that pertains to life and godliness..Rev22:18-19.
2 pet1.
Yes,there are things that are impossible to God.
He cannot lie,sin, or change.Those are NOT POSSIBLE.
God saves people, God heals people, God kills people,that is the biblical God. We cannot just make up a God who does what we think He should.
I do not think you understand what the power of God is.
You seem to imply it is evident in the false ministries we see in mega churches.
It is not so much what you believe, but what does scripture say.

I personally believe it's all due to a lack of faith.

Waiting on him · Jul 10, 2020

Josho said:
What are you believing God for today?

This is what I'm referring to, a sign is needed when there's no faith.

Faith in scripture is a gift of the Holy Spirit.

Waiting on him · Jul 10, 2020

God's grace is sufficient, the born again believe doesn't need or require a sign gift, upon belief he is sealed with the Spirit of God. Sign gifts are for those found in unbelief.

Anthony D'Arienzo · Jul 10, 2020

charity said:
Charity never faileth:
but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail;
whether there be tongues, they shall cease;
whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
.. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
.... But when that which is perfect is come,
...... then that which is in part shall be done away.
When I was a child, I spake as a child,
.. I understood as a child,
.... I thought as a child:
...... but when I became a man,
........I put away childish things.
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face:
now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three;
but the greatest of these is charity.'
(1 Corinthians 13:8)

Hello @Anthony D'Arienzo,

This is a verse which tells us clearly that these gifts of the Spirit shall cease.

* Also, if you search the later epistles of Paul (Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon) written at the end of the Acts period, no mention is made of these gifts. In fact there are those of Paul's acquaintance who are spoken of as being 'sick' for one reason or another, and who are not healed.

* So, yes, I do believe that the gifts and miracles were given for a purpose and ceased being largely confirmatory: to bring Israel as a nation to repentance and the acknowledgement of the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah. When the nation finally went away into the darkness of unbelief at the end of the Acts period, and salvation was sent to the Gentiles (Acts 28:28), then the time for miracles and signs was passed.

* They also appear to have application to immaturity, and childhood: Faith being 'the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.' (Heb 11:1)

* However God is almighty, and we must not limit Him to our own understanding.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

yes, this in large part is exactly what took place.
Paul quoted from isa28.11-12...in 1 cor14:21-22

Anthony D'Arienzo · Jul 10, 2020

Josho said:
I am not talking about people in Heaven, I am talking about supernatural healings and the gift of tongues from God and other experiences of being touched by the Holy Spirit.

Anyway are you willing to give believing that the Lord Jesus can still do miracles a try?

What are you believing God for today?

Perhaps you may need a supernatural miracle in your life, perhaps there is something you need prayer for, are you willing to give believing for a miracle a try?

Hello Josho,
I can be thankful that you are trying to share what you know. Thanks for your willingness to do that.
I do not think what you offered is found in scripture anywhere however. You might have taken a drink of the kool aid already as the language you offer indicates.p

Waiting on him · Jul 10, 2020

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
Hello Josho,
I can be thankful that you are trying to share what you know. Thanks for your willingness to do that.
I do not think what you offered is found in scripture anywhere however. You might have taken a drink of the kool aid already as the language you offer indicates.p

I for one admire their determination to find something or someone to validate, but personally believe the only sign that will be given is the same given to Johnna.

Out of curiosity what do you believe was the sign he received?

Truther · Jul 10, 2020

charity said:
'Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
So that ye come behind in no gift;
waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall also confirm you unto the end,
that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
God is faithful, by whom ye were called
unto the fellowship of His Son Jesus Christ our Lord.'
(1 Corinthians 1:6)

Hello @Truther ,

The testimony of Christ was confirmed in the Corinthian believers: who now waited for the coming of the Lord. The promise is that He would continue to confirm (or establish) them unto the 'end' (Gr, Telos) meaning the final end. That they may be blameless in the day of the Lord Jesus Christ. There is nothing said here to indicate that the gifts would continue, only that the Lord Jesus Christ would continue to establish them, for He is faithful.

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

It says unto the end...in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That day is the day of the Lord...the one thousand year day..the millennial reign day.

The gifts are not to be ceased until that day.

That means coming behind in no gift(all in operation).

God bless.

farouk · Jul 10, 2020

Waiting on him said:
God's grace is sufficient, the born again believe doesn't need or require a sign gift, upon belief he is sealed with the Spirit of God. Sign gifts are for those found in unbelief.

@Waiting on him ...and it was in the Apostolic period, before the Scriptures were complete.

Anthony D'Arienzo · Jul 10, 2020

Those who believe the false wof. teachers do not know what the orthodox faith is. True spiritual teaching is not recognized. The word of God is despised.False story tellers are exalted.

LC627 · Jul 11, 2020

rockytopva said:
My reply to cessationists...

*If you don't believe in healing stay sick
*If you don't believe in spirituality there are plenty of dry churches around
*If you don't believe in tongues don't speak them
*If you don't believe in prosperity stay poor
*If you don't believe in the fruit of faith remain in your unbelief!

But... I do not care to entertain such conversation and neither did the Apostle Paul....

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. - Romans 14:1

My reply...if you don't want family members to die then raise them from the dead.

amadeus · Jul 11, 2020

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
If people cannot give the teaching how can they be critical of it?

Must one be a teacher sent from God in order to believe what he believes? Is not every believer in God and His Son living by faith, which is the substance of things hoped and the evidence of things not seen? This last is so whether a person is a called teacher or not.

LC627 · Jul 11, 2020

In the middle of a world pandemic the "faith healers" are pretty silent.

Cessastionism ,What is it?

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