Salvation Through Baptism ???

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GISMYS_7

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I guess if you throw out 200 years of Christian teaching BEFORE Jerome you would be right:

ST. JUSTIN MARTYR (inter A.D. 148-155)

Whoever is convinced and believes that what they are taught and told by us is the truth, and professes to be able to live accordingly, is instructed to pray and to beseech God in fasting for the remission of their former sins, while we pray and fast with them. Then they are led by us to a place where there is water; and there they are reborn in the same kind of rebirth in which we ourselves were reborn: In the name of God, the Lord and Father of all, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they receive the washing with water. For Christ said, "Unless you be reborn, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." ...The reason for doing this, we have learned from the Apostles. (The First Apology 61)


ST. THEOPHILUS OF ANTIOCH (c. A.D. 181)

Moreover, those things which were created from the waters were blessed by God, so that this might also be a sign that men would at a future time receive repentance and remission of sins through water and the bath of regeneration -- all who proceed to the truth and are born again and receive a blessing from God. (To Autolycus 2:16)


ST. IRENAEUS (c. A.D. 190)

"And [Naaman] dipped himself...seven times in the Jordan" [2 Kings 5:14]. It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [this served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions, being spiritually regenerated as new-born babes, even as the Lord has declared: "Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Fragment 34)


TERTULLIAN (inter A.D. 200-206)

A treatise on our sacrament of water, by which the sins of our earlier blindness are washed away and we are released for eternal life will not be superfluous.....taking away death by the washing away of sins. The guilt being removed, the penalty, of course, is also removed.....Baptism is itself a corporal act by which we are plunged in water, while its effect is spiritual, in that we are freed from sins. (On Baptism 1:1; 5:6; 7:2)

...no one can attain salvation without Baptism, especially in view of the declaration of the Lord, who says: "Unless a man shall be born of water, he shall not have life." (On Baptism 12:1)


ST. CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA (ante A.D. 202)

When we are baptized, we are enlightened. Being enlightened, we are adopted as sons. Adopted as sons, we are made perfect. Made perfect, we become immortal...."and sons all of the Most High" [Psalm 82:6]. This work is variously called grace, illumination, perfection, and washing. It is a washing by which we are cleansed of sins; a gift of grace by which the punishments due our sins are remitted; an illumination by which we behold that holy light of salvation -- that is, by which we see God clearly; and we call that perfection which leaves nothing lacking. Indeed, if a man know God, what more does he need? Certainly it were out of place to call that which is not complete a true gift of God's grace. Because God is perfect, the gifts He bestows are perfect. (The Instructor of Children 1:6:26:1)


RECOGNITIONS OF CLEMENT (c. A.D. 221)

But you will perhaps say, "What does the baptism of water contribute toward the worship of God?" In the first place, because that which has pleased God is fulfilled. In the second place, because when you are regenerated and born again of water and of God, the frailty of your former birth, which you have through men, is cut off, and so ...you shall be able to attain salvation; but otherwise it is impossible. For thus has the true Prophet [Jesus] testified to us with an oath: "Verily, I say to you, that unless a man is born again of water....he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Recognitions 6:9)


ORIGEN (post A.D. 244)

Formerly there was Baptism, in an obscure way....now, however, in full view, there is regeneration in water and in the Holy Spirit. Formerly, in an obscure way, there was manna for food; now, however, in full view, there is the true food, the flesh of the Word of God as He Himself says: "My flesh is truly food, and My blood is truly drink" [John 6:55]. (Homilies on Numbers 7:2)

The Church received from the Apostles the tradition of giving Baptism even to infants. For the Apostles, to whom were committed the secrets of divine mysteries, knew that there is in everyone the innate stains of sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit. (Commentaries on Romans 5:9)


ST. CYPRIAN OF CARTHAGE (c. 200 - 258 A.D.)

But afterwards, when the stain of my past life had been washed away by means of the water of re-birth, a light from above poured itself upon my chastened and now pure heart; afterwards through the Spirit which is breathed from heaven, a second birth made of me a new man... Thus it had to be acknowledged that what was of the earth and was born of the flesh and had lived submissive to sins, had now begun to be of God, inasmuch as the Holy Spirit was animating it. (To Donatus 4)

[When] they receive also the Baptism of the Church...then finally can they be fully sanctified and be the sons of God...since it is written, "Except a man be born again of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." (Letters 71[72]:1)

[It] behooves those to be baptized...so that they are prepared, in the lawful and true and only Baptism of the holy Church, by divine regeneration, for the kingdom of God...because it is written, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." (Letters 72[73]:21)



SEVENTH COUNCIL OF CARTHAGE (c. A.D. 256)

And in the gospel our Lord Jesus Christ spoke with his divine voice, saying, "Except a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." ...Unless therefore they receive saving Baptism in the Catholic Church, which is one, they cannot be saved, but will be condemned with the carnal in the judgment of the Lord Christ.

Ideas and opinions of little men!!!
 

mailmandan

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No, I get it. If we don't obey His commandments we won't be saved. Having faith is the first step to being saved. Being baptized and keeping His commandments and the teachings of the Apostles (works) are the other steps to being saved. I believe what Scripture says: Faith without works is dead. (James 2:17)

You believe that faith is sufficient. Scripture says otherwise.
All you get is salvation by works which means you don’t get it. James 2 is often misinterpreted by works-salvationists. Faith is not merely the first step in being saved and we are saved through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no resulting evidential works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In regards to James 2:17, “faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works (which is like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit). James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it’s dead. Again, if someone merely says-claims they have faith but lack resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

You need to keep in mind that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God - (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

*You need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine.
 
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Behold

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Protestant historians disagree with you:

But Paul doesn't disagree with me.
So, when you stop reading commentaries and start believing the New Testament and read that Paul said "Jesus sent me not to Baptize", and when you get out a BIBLE and read a NEW TESTAMENT, and look at the Acts of the Apostles, (ACTS), and notice all the people who were saved in those 28 chapters, you'll LEARN that water baptism in every single case, came AFTER Profession of Faith and Salvation.
Water always FOLLOWED their salvation.
They were always SAVED first.....Always TRUSTED CHRIST and were BORN AGAIN, FIRST, marymog.
Not ONCE was anyone SAVED in the WATER or BY THE WATER in the NT.
Why dont you know that? Is it because you dont CARE what the NEW TESTAMENT SAYS?
Is that your problem? Or is it because you have been taught not to read it by your "church"?
Is that the Problem?
Just read your NT Marymog.
Throw away all the "histories" that lied to you.
Come out of the DARK.
 

JunChosen

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The word "baptism" means "to wash" or "to cleanse" and this Nicodemus did not understand (as many do not) so he asked can anyone go back to his mother's womb?

What was the reply? Jesus said you must be born of water and the Spirit to see the kingdom of God. We know that water only washes or cleanses. So what did Jesus mean "of water?" Well, we have to look elsewhere for its' meaning. Hence, the woman at the well.

Jesus said,"he that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water." Living water is synonymous with the Gospel as per Matthew 28:19-20.

Also, 1 Peter 3:20-21

21) "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

To God Be The Glory
 

Marymog

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All you get is salvation by works which means you don’t get it. James 2 is often misinterpreted by works-salvationists. Faith is not merely the first step in being saved and we are saved through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no resulting evidential works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In regards to James 2:17, “faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works (which is like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit). James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it’s dead. Again, if someone merely says-claims they have faith but lack resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

You need to keep in mind that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God - (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

*You need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine.
You need to properly harmonize ALL of scripture with ALL scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine.
 

Marymog

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But Paul doesn't disagree with me.
So, when you stop reading commentaries and start believing the New Testament and read that Paul said "Jesus sent me not to Baptize", and when you get out a BIBLE and read a NEW TESTAMENT, and look at the Acts of the Apostles, (ACTS), and notice all the people who were saved in those 28 chapters, you'll LEARN that water baptism in every single case, came AFTER Profession of Faith and Salvation.
Water always FOLLOWED their salvation.
They were always SAVED first.....Always TRUSTED CHRIST and were BORN AGAIN, FIRST, marymog.
Not ONCE was anyone SAVED in the WATER or BY THE WATER in the NT.
Why dont you know that? Is it because you dont CARE what the NEW TESTAMENT SAYS?
Is that your problem? Or is it because you have been taught not to read it by your "church"?
Is that the Problem?
Just read your NT Marymog.
Throw away all the "histories" that lied to you.
Come out of the DARK.
I read YOUR commentary sooooo should I really “stop reading commentaries”?
 

Behold

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I read YOUR commentary sooooo should I really “stop reading commentaries”?

What do you think?

Let me put it this way..
If the person teaching is not teaching you strict "Pauline theology", then throw that commentator away.
If a person tells you that you can lose your salvation, then put that commentator in the dumpster.
if a person tells you to Pray to Mary, or that a cookie and juice is literally God, then leave that cult.
If a person tells you that you just might be the who who by "pre-determination" cosmic LOTTO, = God chose you for Hell, then burn that commentary and run from that devil.
 
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Marymog

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Almighty God's Word is eternal living Truth!!
So do the ideas and opinions of those ‘little men’ reveal the truth of His word or do your ideas and opinions reveal the truth of His word?
 

Marymog

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What do you think?

Let me put it this way..
If the person teaching is not teaching you strict "Pauline theology", then throw that commentator away.
If a person tells you that you can lose your salvation, then put that commentator in the dumpster.
if a person tells you to Pray to Mary, or that a cookie and juice is literally God, then leave that cult.
If a person tells you that you just might be the who who by "pre-determination" cosmic LOTTO, = God chose you for Hell, then burn that commentary and run from that devil.
When one says, "I follow Paul," and another, "I follow Apollos," are you not mere human beings?

BTW....Scripture says “He who endures to the end will be saved”. It doesn’t say once you believe you are saved. Sooooo I have put what you have told me in the dumpster
 

mjrhealth

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I can however, show that they all drove around in a Honda!

The Bible says that they were all in one Accord! (Acts 1:14)!

Should I make what you drive a salvation issue? :eek:
well if they didnt deem it that important to say they where, is it such an issue, Sarcasm gets you no where.
 

Marymog

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You could be baptized everyday of your life and die and go to hell.
Hi GISMYS,

If you prophesy, do miracles and cast out demons in His name “everyday” will you go to hell?

Curious Mary
 

JunChosen

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Hi GISMYS,

If you prophesy, do miracles and cast out demons in His name “everyday” will you go to hell?

Curious Mary

Most definitely, if you are NOT saved! Doing miracles and casting out devils a criteria to being saved?

To God Be The Glory
 

Marymog

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Most definitely, if you are NOT saved! Doing miracles and casting out devils a criteria to being saved?

To God Be The Glory
Doing miracles and casting out demons could give the appearance that the Lord is with you!
 

JunChosen

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Doing miracles and casting out demons could give the appearance that the Lord is with you!

I beg to differ. in fact, in the last days (which we are in) only the unsaved will do signs and wonders! Matthew 24:24 reads:

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

Practice what you preach! You are giving an appearance of evil and not as a saved person, or are you saved? If so, how?

To God Be The Glory
 
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